Class 379 updates (all are OFF LEASE)

[Bikeman78]

What exactly is ‘warm store’? 379 019 at Cambridge still has it’s pan down. 379 016 pan is down today. Both units haven’t moved for months. If they don’t move over to another TOC soon the probable outcome will be Sims scrapyard, I reckon.

It's worth remembering that four class 317s spent six months dumped at Harwich. Three of them have come back to traffic and they don't seem to be any less reliable than the rest of the fleet. In fact the first time some were stored for months, one pair ran ECS from Harwich to Liverpool Street and straight in to service on the 1028 to Cambridge.

 

[43102EMR]

It's worth remembering that four class 317s spent six months dumped at Harwich. Three of them have come back to traffic and they don't seem to be any less reliable than the rest of the fleet. In fact the first time some were stored for months, one pair ran ECS from Harwich to Liverpool Street and straight in to service on the 1028 to Cambridge.

A bit of a difference here as the 379s are now off lease from Greater Anglia - the new operator of them (once confirmed) will still have to do driver training, clearance runs etc. before they can be used again in passenger service.

 

[wagnaga]

Of they are off lease who is actually looking after them and ensuring the batteries are charged?

 

[swt_passenger]

Of they are off lease who is actually looking after them and ensuring the batteries are charged?

The owning Rosco will be responsible for storage, maintenance and security of their property.

 

[Sutton in Ant]

Well. Akiem is the 1s who own the 379s. They brought Macquarie's assets so Akiem will be the 1 who will have to fork out for the storage and any future repairs of the 379s.

 

[YSTrains]

Have Great Northern ruled out the use of these trains then?

 

[Sutton in Ant]

Have Great Northern ruled out the use of these trains then?

Well. They would have to negotiate with Akiem for the lease of the 379s

 

[JonathanH]

Have Great Northern ruled out the use of these trains then?

There needs to be a bit of patience about the 379s, and any other rolling stock without a confirmed future.

In what public setting would Great Northern expressly indicate that they aren't going to use a fleet they don't currently operate? When there is news to announce, I'm sure that news will surface.

 

[dk1]

Have Great Northern ruled out the use of these trains then?

Announcement expected within the next couple of months as supposed to be moving late September from their current storage.

 

[43102EMR]

Have Great Northern ruled out the use of these trains then?

From what I’ve been told, there’s no immediate need for them. Whilst this doesn’t confirm they will be leased by them or not, there is a possibility to when needed. So never say never.

 

[hwl]

From what I’ve been told, there’s no immediate need for them. Whilst this doesn’t confirm they will be leased by them or not, there is a possibility to when needed. So never say never.

Announcement expected within the next couple of months as supposed to be moving late September from their current storage.

With the 455s withdrawn and 313s going later this year there will be a need when a bit more recovery has taken place (which is happening slowly) which suggest they could wait another few months to see how things pan out.

There currently isn't much space available across GTR especially on the south side until the 455s have been cleared which will take another 7 weeks at the current rate. (which then offer a rare opportunity for depot/stabling area repairs)
There was (/is?) the Selhurst depot roof damage that also took out some space/capability, not sure what the status is on that.
All these affect the rate at which 387 would return (ex-GatEx) or head south (ex GN only).

Hence GTR/DfT are don't need anything signed immediately and are quite happy to wait few months (presumably blaming treasury) to sweat Akiem a bit more.

GTR and/or Akiem also need to spend some time pricing up the required upgrades to GTR required levels e.g. ASDO that matches 377/387 as well as general refurb levels.

 

[JonathanH]

It may not be connected but Great Western appear to have let a tender for 30 EMUs to operate LTV services...

Fleet of 30 X 4-Car Electric Multiple Units (EMUs) [Notice]

Great Western Railway (GWR) is seeking expressions of interest from suppliers for provision of a fle... A Utilities Contract Notice by First Greater Western.

bidstats.uk

Delivery from August 2022.

Provision of a fleet of 30 x 4-car electric multiple units (EMUs)​

A Utilities Contract Notice
by FIRST GREATER WESTERN LIMITED​

SourceFind a TenderTypeContract (Supply)Duration6 yearValue___
SectorTRANSPORTPublished31 May 2022Delivery01 Aug 2022 to 29 May 2028Deadline30 Jun 2022 00:00

Concepts​

• swindon
• rail parts
• london thames valley
• provision of a fleet
• expressions of interest
• current fleet
• emus
• 4-car
• great western railway
• london thames valley services

Location​

The EMUs are expected to be operated anywhere on the electrified portion of the GWR network, primarily operating between London Paddington to Swindon, with the ability to cover services onto Cardiff

Description
Great Western Railway (GWR) is seeking expressions of interest from suppliers for provision of a fleet of 30 x 4-car electric multiple units (EMUs) to deliver existing London Thames Valley services, to the current sectional running times (SRTs), with at least the same seated and crush laden capacity, from the 1st of April 2023 to the 29th May 2028.

Total Quantity or Scope​

Provision of a fleet of 30 x 4-car electric multiple units (EMUs) to deliver existing London Thames Valley services, to the current sectional running times (SRTs), with at least the same seated and crush laden capacity, from the 1st of April 2023 to the 29th May 2028. The EMUs must be capable of being powered by 25kV overhead lines, be capable and approved for use at speeds of up to 110mph prior to entering service, and operating in multiples, with a through gangway, of up to three units. Our current fleet is maintained in house at Reading Depot, supported by a TSSSA. It is our intention that maintenance provision continues in this manner.

CPV Codes​

• 34600000 - Railway and tramway locomotives and rolling stock and associated parts

Indicators​

• Bids should cover the whole contract.
• Renewals are not available.
• Award on basis of price and quality.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That seems more than slightly coincidental, though there are 37 350/2s so I suppose their owner could bid those if they can't get someone to take all 37.

May be an error not to have specified 20m vehicles, though!

 

[Mikey C]

It's not Great Northern than currently NEEDS the 379s anyway, they'd only need them if they lost their 387s to Southern.

 

[RailWonderer]

It may not be connected but Great Western appear to have let a tender for 30 EMUs to operate LTV services...

Fleet of 30 X 4-Car Electric Multiple Units (EMUs) [Notice]

Great Western Railway (GWR) is seeking expressions of interest from suppliers for provision of a fle... A Utilities Contract Notice by First Greater Western.

bidstats.uk

Delivery from August 2022.

Why does GWR want more EMUs? A few 387s were on Bristol runs when the IET sets were off for crack fixing but that was months back and they brough the 6 c2c 387s and a few GatEx ones to help as well.

That seems more than slightly coincidental, though there are 37 350/2s so I suppose their owner could bid those if they can't get someone to take all 37.

May be an error not to have specified 20m vehicles, though!

GWR would not go for Desiro if there are spare Bombardier units free since they operate 45 387s including the HeX 12 already.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why does GWR want more EMUs? A few 387s were on Bristol runs when the IET sets were off for crack fixing but that was months back and they brough the 6 c2c 387s and a few GatEx ones to help as well.

The abject failure of the Class 769s? Plus they are using DMUs to cover some Thames Valley services at the moment, I believe.

GWR would not go for Desiro if there are spare Bombardier units free plus they operate 45 387s including the HeX 12 anyway.

It is clearly aimed at getting the 379s, though it'll be interesting to see if anyone bids new Aventras instead.

 

[43096]

It is clearly aimed at getting the 379s, though it'll be interesting to see if anyone bids new Aventras instead.

Not necessarily. Before everyone starts hyperventilating and getting excited, I would point out that GWR have been going through a process of extended leases as part of the planned award of a national rail contract (see the GWR HST thread). This may be the same for the 387s but is being market tested for a lower quantity (30 vs 33 currently) - note reference to “existing services”.

As for Aventras, that belongs under speculation (aka wibble/dribble) as they are not going to be built by April next year.

 

[St. Paddy]

Is it coincidence that the IET repair program is expected to take until 2028 to complete?

 

[JonathanH]

Is it coincidence that the IET repair program is expected to take until 2028 to complete?

Almost certainly unconnected. The suggestion from '43096' about market testing certainly seems plausible.

 

[adc82140]

There is potential for GWR to swallow up a few more EMUs, for example to free up IETs for Bedwyns etc, but as @43096 says, that unlikely to be what's happening here.

 

[Mollman]

Not necessarily. Before everyone starts hyperventilating and getting excited, I would point out that GWR have been going through a process of extended leases as part of the planned award of a national rail contract (see the GWR HST thread). This may be the same for the 387s but is being market tested for a lower quantity (30 vs 33 currently) - note reference to “existing services”.

The only thing I can see is if the great move around that people were predicting with GN 387s being cascaded to Southern is instead now GWR 387s, the benefit being all 387s would be run by a single operator (once C2Cs have been transferred too).

 

[JonathanH]

The only thing I can see is if the great move around that people were predicting with GN 387s being cascaded to Southern is instead now GWR 387s, the benefit being all 387s would be run by a single operator (once C2Cs have been transferred too).

Not quite all 387s - the Heathrow ones would be outside any transfer from GWR.

GWR could presumably cope with 30 units if they didn't have to run quite as many slow line services between Paddington and Reading.

 

[Mollman]

Not quite all 387s - the Heathrow ones would be outside any transfer from GWR.

Darn, forgot about them!

 

[Milo T.K]

Would be interesting if GWR get rid of their 387s. Can 379s even do 110mph? Would probably be more suitable to have 350/2s

 

[43102EMR]

Would be interesting if GWR get rid of their 387s. Can 379s even do 110mph? Would probably be more suitable to have 350/2s

They would need pantograph and software modifications to run at 110mph, but shouldn’t be too hard to do as I believe one 379 was modified temporarily and tested as part of the 387 build process.

 

[swt_passenger]

They would need pantograph and software modifications to run at 110mph, but shouldn’t be too hard to do as I believe one 379 was modified temporarily and tested as part of the 387 build process.

Yes, a forum search finds a few reports that a 379 was tested at 110 mph nearly 8 or 9 years ago, with modified software only. It’s possible they wouldn’t have modified the pantograph if only speed testing a single unit, but I think that would be a very straightforward task.

 

[JonathanH]

Would be interesting if GWR get rid of their 387s. Can 379s even do 110mph? Would probably be more suitable to have 350/2s

That is precisely what the tender appears to be about.

The interpretation of this forum is that it is effectively asking Akiem to name their best price to provide 379s (or indeed Porterbrook 350s but somewhat less likely) that can carry the same number of passengers and run at the same speed as the existing 387s.

If Akiem don't want to bid because they think that the 379s don't fit the tender requirements, they don't have to. However, that is a matter for them and their engineering team, not for us to say it can't be done, just because it hasn't yet happened.

 

[Energy]

(or indeed Porterbrook 350s but somewhat less likely)

They want them by April 2023, I heavily doubt the 350/2s will be available by then.

The bid seems to be Porterbrook vs Akiem with the 387s vs 379s on price. GWR have always had a generous number of 387s (especially with Elizabeth line taking a large number of the services) so its not a suprise that they would want to loose a few.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They want them by April 2023, I heavily doubt the 350/2s will be available by then.

The bid seems to be Porterbrook vs Akiem with the 387s vs 379s on price. GWR have always had a generous number of 387s (especially with Elizabeth line taking a large number of the services) so its not a suprise that they would want to loose a few.

They're using DMUs on Thames Valley services entirely under the wires, aren't they? That says to me they need more EMUs, not fewer.

 

[43102EMR]

They're using DMUs on Thames Valley services entirely under the wires, aren't they? That says to me they need more EMUs, not fewer.

I’ve not seen DMUs on TV electrified services since the handover of Reading stoppers to TfL - only ones the 387s are used on now are Paddington - Didcot/Newbury and limited services to Swindon, Bristol P and Cardiff.