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Class 442s - Now at the end of the road and to be withdrawn permanently

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swt_passenger

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Meerkat said:
Are PRM modifications being made then?
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I don’t think so, that’s most likely why they are approved until the planned end of the current franchise. I don’t think there’s much reason why they wouldn‘t be extended again, the dispensation includes things like the doorway widths - they are fractions of an inch too narrow, but they wouldn’t be altered at this age of the trains.
 
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TEW

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Of course some PRM modifications were made as part of the SWR refurbishment, including new door buttons, door sounders and disabled toilet. As you suggest, anything further would be impractical given the age of the units.
 
pigs bay

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The way the "new normal" is looking they could easily go back onto the poole semi-fast services and leave the 444's for the weymouth as there is more and able to form into 10 car trains
 
HamworthyGoods

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pigs bay said:
The way the "new normal" is looking they could easily go back onto the poole semi-fast services and leave the 444's for the weymouth as there is more and able to form into 10 car trains
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444s tend to work much better on the Bournemouth line trains which service the smaller stations such as New Milton and Christchurch on the semi-fasts.

Part of the problem with 442s is they don’t have SDO, just unit de-select so it’s 5 cars or 10 cars only. With 444s having SDO it allows front 7 ex at Christchurch which works far better in terms of performance, social distancing etc. The semi-fasts also tend to stop at Clapham Junction which is something for the same reasons the 442s aren’t ideal for.

442s are best suited to the more limited stop fast workings.
 
4REP

4REP

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jfollows said:
I hope to see them again, they're nice units and I have good memories.

In 1986 I lived in Portchester but would walk home from Fareham, so would often use the 91 xx.45 departure from Waterloo and change at Eastleigh. 4-REP+8-TC, and I'd sit at the front of the train, slightly weird leaving Waterloo because it was so quiet. But the 442 replacements were more modern.

Most recently, I went on holiday in Cuba in 2015 and used the Gatwick Express 442 to get to the airport.

Between times, I did live near Petersfield 1988-1992 or so, but I think the service was exclusively CIG+BEP+CIG then, subsequently there were some 442 workings for sure.

I'd like to use them again on the Portsmouth Direct, or indeed elsewhere, let's see what transpires .....
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xx45 departures from Waterloo were 92 headcodes not 91. In 1986 91 were non stop to Southampton and 92 were the semi fast. 442 operation on the 81 fasts started May 92 but training for crew started in February 92.
Cig bep cig operation were the normal stock and as 442 operation started certain diagrams on the Poole were also operated by Cig Bep Cig particularly on the 1645 Waterloo to Poole and a morning peak arrived 1008 from Wareham. 2 sets of Cig bep cig were in Clapham Junction sidings all day for the 1645/1650 poole/pompey departures.
 
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jfollows

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4REP said:
xx45 departures from Waterloo were 92 headcodes not 91. In 1986 91 were non stop to Southampton and 92 were the semi fast.
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Thank you, brain fade on my part or something. 92 as you say. Quite often I'd travel to London from Fareham via Southampton, in which case I'd use the 91 non-stop, that would doubtless not be a "permitted route" today but was no problem then.
 
4REP

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jfollows said:
Thank you, brain fade on my part or something. 92 as you say. Quite often I'd travel to London from Fareham via Southampton, in which case I'd use the 91 non-stop, that would doubtless not be a "permitted route" today but was no problem then.
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I miss those days as I lived in Southampton I used to make sure I catched the 1645 Waterloo to Poole as my fav stock were the Greyhound Cigs and Beps. Definitely missed my Reps and TC workings but the Cigs and Beps made up for that
 
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theironroad

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HamworthyGoods said:
444s tend to work much better on the Bournemouth line trains which service the smaller stations such as New Milton and Christchurch on the semi-fasts.

Part of the problem with 442s is they don’t have SDO, just unit de-select so it’s 5 cars or 10 cars only. With 444s having SDO it allows front 7 ex at Christchurch which works far better in terms of performance, social distancing etc. The semi-fasts also tend to stop at Clapham Junction which is something for the same reasons the 442s aren’t ideal for.

442s are best suited to the more limited stop fast workings.
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Agree that far better on limited stop services, however that didn't stop them being diagrammed on the 2105 waterloo to poole which is all stops but one from Totton.

Meerkat said:
Are PRM modifications being made then?
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I don't believe any further ones are. As has been mentioned door width is tight due to the pole the door swings out on (not very technical term!) and I believe the ramp gradient between train and platform at a fair few stations.

All units have been done and have a decent spaced wheelchair area and new universal toilet module.
 
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Railengineer

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theironroad said:
While we don't know the exact outcome yet, let's be clear the 442 programme hasn't been terminated.

442s were pulled w/c 17/3 as WFH was imposed and covid cases were increasing. More staff were self isolating and the need for 2 drivers in passenger service meant that it was easier to withdraw the 442 and use the driver's elsewhere.
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Also don't forget the debacle with units turning signals the wrong colour in the london area and the resulting massive engineering screw-up when they found the auxiliary converters non-compliant to current EMC standards!

It might be better to cut their losses with these now passenger services are going to be cut back.
 
fgwrich

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theironroad said:
All units have been done and have a decent spaced wheelchair area and new universal toilet module.
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Speaking of modifications, one modification I wish SWR would take to doing while the units are out of traffic is properly refurbishing the toilets on the normal coaches. I wasn't impressed with them when I last caught one with SWR - they had barely been touched since their last days on the South Western, with rusty asthmatic handriers.
 
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swt_passenger

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Railengineer said:
Also don't forget the debacle with units turning signals the wrong colour in the london area and the resulting massive engineering screw-up when they found the auxiliary converters non-compliant to current EMC standards!.
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But that’s already fixed isn’t it? So it’s not a reason to give up now...
 
Matt Taylor

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442s are not a part of the requirement for the December timetable, adjustments to the train service are pencilled in to cover for their unavailability which will become public in due course when the timetables are published. In the medium term the need for them may become more pressing as even if commuters fail to return in their usual numbers there'll still be a need to run everything as ten or twelve cars for social distancing.

My personal records show that 2402, 2411, 2413, 2414, 2415, 2418, 2419 & 2422 have the AC traction motors (but not necessarily ready for use). 2403, 2408, 2409, 2410, 2416 & 2420 are awaiting refurbishment at Bournemouth or Eastleigh, 2401, 2405, 2407, 2412, 2421 & 2424 are the scrap units and 2404, 2406, 2417 and 2423 continue to be exiled in Portsmouth where they've been since March 23rd making the odd trip movement between Fratton depot and Southsea sidings.
 
Nym

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Railengineer said:
Also don't forget the debacle with units turning signals the wrong colour in the london area and the resulting massive engineering screw-up when they found the auxiliary converters non-compliant to current EMC standards!

It might be better to cut their losses with these now passenger services are going to be cut back.
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Except... Signalling equipment should be compatible with the old equipment as well as the new equipment.
It used to be fine, what did NR change to make it not fine?
 
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pompeyfan

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Matt Taylor said:
442s are not a part of the requirement for the December timetable, adjustments to the train service are pencilled in to cover for their unavailability which will become public in due course when the timetables are published. In the medium term the need for them may become more pressing as even if commuters fail to return in their usual numbers there'll still be a need to run everything as ten or twelve cars for social distancing.

My personal records show that 2402, 2411, 2413, 2414, 2415, 2418, 2419 & 2422 have the AC traction motors (but not necessarily ready for use). 2403, 2408, 2409, 2410, 2416 & 2420 are awaiting refurbishment at Bournemouth or Eastleigh, 2401, 2405, 2407, 2412, 2421 & 2424 are the scrap units and 2404, 2406, 2417 and 2423 continue to be exiled in Portsmouth where they've been since March 23rd making the odd trip movement between Fratton depot and Southsea sidings.
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pretty comprehensive post, only comment to note is I think there’s now only 1 10 car in the Portsmouth area.
 
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infobleep

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Matt Taylor said:
442s are not a part of the requirement for the December timetable, adjustments to the train service are pencilled in to cover for their unavailability which will become public in due course when the timetables are published. In the medium term the need for them may become more pressing as even if commuters fail to return in their usual numbers there'll still be a need to run everything as ten or twelve cars for social distancing.

My personal records show that 2402, 2411, 2413, 2414, 2415, 2418, 2419 & 2422 have the AC traction motors (but not necessarily ready for use). 2403, 2408, 2409, 2410, 2416 & 2420 are awaiting refurbishment at Bournemouth or Eastleigh, 2401, 2405, 2407, 2412, 2421 & 2424 are the scrap units and 2404, 2406, 2417 and 2423 continue to be exiled in Portsmouth where they've been since March 23rd making the odd trip movement between Fratton depot and Southsea sidings.
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Does this mean they won't appear in December timetable or just that they are planning in case they don't?

Would I be right in thinking, passenger numbers aren't currently high enough to need them?
 
HamworthyGoods

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Railengineer said:
To save me scrolling back through 50 odd pages...are any of these units actually operating in service with AC traction yet?
Worst Group trumpeted these as highlight of the franchise. Franchise has ended now,
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Not a problem unique to bringing old rolling stock back to traffic, look at the sorry saga of the brand new TPE mk5 coaches!
 
Speed43125

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HamworthyGoods said:
Not a problem unique to bringing old rolling stock back to traffic, look at the sorry saga of the brand new TPE mk5 coaches!
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Well... I suppose those were similar in the sense that they were messing about getting very different stuff to 'talk' to each other and work properly.
 
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pompeyfan

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SPZ for AC 442 testing to begin shortly I’m told. Haven’t been given a date yet I’m afraid.
 
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