Class 50's on WCML south of Crewe 1975

[Czesziafan]

In the official report of the Nuneaton accident of June 1975 it states that one of the preceding trains to that which was derailed (and whose driver gave evidence at the enquiry) was the Kensington - Stirling motorail which was hauled by a class 50 locomotive.

I have always thought that all WCML express passenger trains at this time were electrically hauled south of Crewe except for "drags" on diversions over non-electrified lines.

Does anyone know whether class 50's were regularly used on passenger and motorial services south of Crewe in this period or was the working mentioned in the report an exception due to some operating difficulty?

 

[Mag_seven]

I have always thought that all WCML express passenger trains at this time were electrically hauled south of Crewe except for "drags" on diversions over non-electrified lines.

There might have been the odd working that wasn't electrically hauled? Or perhaps on the day the 50 was substituting for a failure?

 

[mattdickinson]

There might have been the odd working that wasn't electrically hauled? Or perhaps on the day the 50 was substituting for a failure?

Willesden to Kensington was not electrified back then..

 

[Philip Phlopp]

There might have been the odd working that wasn't electrically hauled? Or perhaps on the day the 50 was substituting for a failure?

Likely, given the MotoRail Kenny-O to Stirling/Perth services tended to have the more fire prone AC classes drop on them for the wirey bit.

 

[randyrippley]

Crewe-Glasgow went live in May 1974, so a year later most of the 50s should have been on the Western Region, though from memory a few were held back to work Barrow and S&C trains for a short while. I'd hazard a guess that 50s were regulars by then on the Kensington-Willesden leg (ETH fitted loco would be needed) and on that day the booked electric failed so it stayed on. Pure conjecture, but sounds feasible

 

[Clarence Yard]

No they weren't. The Kenny O to Willesden legs were usually class 25 hauled, sometimes in pairs. They used to make a fair old racket lifting off from Kenny O.

Cl.50 were very rare visitors to the southern end of the WCML, almost all occasions i know about or saw because of failures or shortages further north.

 

[Andy R. A.]

Between 1974 and 1979 when I was at Euston I only once saw a class 50, although I hadn't noted the number at the time the Railway Magazine featured it in their monthly Traffic Reports. On 01.06.74 50017 worked a Holyhead to Euston service south of Crewe, returning north on the 1545 Euston to Glasgow.
The same Loco was also noted on 16.07.74 heading north on a Fitted Freight at Bletchley.
Class 47s were a lot more common. The Overnight Sleeper services had dual heated stock, and if the Electric heating had failed coming south a boiler fitted example would work through to Euston. Class 40s were slightly rarer but turned up occasionally.

Having looked through some more of the Railway Magazine Traffic Reports of the period 50017 crops up again on 21.04.75, this time hauling a train of brand new Mark 3 coaches south through Kenton.

 

[CW2]

If I recall correctly, the Nuneaton derailment was caused by a driver missing a Temporary Speed Restriction warning board, and arriving at line speed on a section of track fit only for 20 mph. As you say, one of the preceding trains was worked by a class 50 and the driver of that train was queried as to the condition of the warning lights when he passed them. He replied that they were very dim, but he didn't want to stop and report them as he had a class 50 diesel instead of the booked electric and was fearful of losing time.

 

[tbwbear]

He replied that they were very dim, but he didn't want to stop and report them as he had a class 50 diesel instead of the booked electric and was fearful of losing time.

That is certainly the impression from the report (it is available as a PDF from the 1975 Accident Wikipedia page).

In Paragraph 44 he actually says he can't remember why he didnt stop to report the lights out, but it was possibly because he was running late; the lateness is attibuted to the diesel locomotive substituting for the electric.

I have had a scan through all the traffic reports for Modern Railways for 1975 and I can't find any other details of Class 50s south of Crewe. There are plenty of mentions of them starting to work on North Wales though.

There are also several references to the overall shortages of AC Electric locomotives (Classes 81-84 being confined to freight in principle but then exceptions having to be made etc..), so that must have been a background cause.

Presumably the 50 involved here was still based back at Crewe? It must have been working back having deputised on another southbound working, mustn't it ?

 

[Sprinter107]

Ive got a book that shows 408 and 425 on Ironbridge to Silverdale coal workings in 1972

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Crewe-Glasgow went live in May 1974, so a year later most of the 50s should have been on the Western Region, though from memory a few were held back to work Barrow and S&C trains for a short while.

I also had one between Preston and Manchester Victoria in that era

 

[AJP62]

They also continued to work on the GSW through Euston train between Glasgow C and Carlisle for a spell after electrification of the main line.

Not sure if they worked the Euston sleepers along that route too.

 

[Taunton]

There are also several references to the overall shortages of AC Electric locomotives (Classes 81-84 being confined to freight in principle but then exceptions having to be made etc..), so that must have been a background cause.

The extension of the electrification to Glasgow was supplied with a limited number of new-build Class 87, and also a major overhaul of those Class 82 and 84 (mainly the latter) which had been stood idle for some time as unsatisfactory - there having previously been a surplus of electric locomotives. I think this helped make the overall financial justification. The rebuilt locomotives however were little better than before and soon got laid to one side again, hence the shortage. Someone can probably give the detail of what their problems were. There were also issues with freight haulage over Shap not working out as intended, leading to double heading being needed on a scale which had not been anticipated.

For the Class 50, if I recall correctly when the electrification was completed about 35 were transferred to the WR, but 15 stayed on the LMR for some time. I was regularly on the Edinburgh to Liverpool service at this time, and this normally got a Class 50 south of Preston, and doubtless Manchester portions likewise; a contrast to the Edinburgh-Carstairs initial sector where whatever was spare at Haymarket was used.

 

[CW2]

There used to be a parcels service in the evenings that came over from the Western to the LM at Willesden, booked for a 47/4 /4, after all the 50s had been transferred away from Crewe. The Western got into the habit of putting a class 50 on it, knowing that the Willesden crew booked to take it forward wouldn't know the traction, and thus saving the Western a 47 which would otherwise have worked through to Crewe. Euston Control got fed up with this occuring night after night, so one night a spare Crewe set of men were arranged to work the parcels instead, with the driver still retaining class 50 knowledge. When the train arrived at Willesden the Old Oak crew made to hook off as normal, but were surprised to be relieved and told to walk back to Old Oak Common.
A couple of hours later, a Western voice was heard on the telephone at Euston, enquiring after the whereabouts of the class 50 that he had sent across on the parcels. "Hang on a minute....Ah yes, it's just passing Lichfield..." "Christ, that's the loco for the Down Midnight!" "Not tonight it isn't!"
A certain amount of inter-regional high level discussion ensued, featuring phrases like "stitched me up good and proper" and other less polite phrases.
The practice of sending a class 50 across on the parcels ceased forthwith.

 

[randyrippley]

One strange one was a 50 at Morecambe station on a passenger service on a september saturday in 1977. No excursions seem to fit. I've always assumed it must have been on a transpennine service as a trial after being released from Doncaster works, but thats only a guess