Compensation for cost of buying alternative tickets when disruption results in no further services to get to destination today via original route.

[TUC]

I was planning to travel on the 1812 from Oxford today, changing at Sheffield and Leeds, to get to my destination of Halifax at 2227. (This was using several split tickets, all Advances, with the Sheffield to Leeds leg on a Northern-only ticket). I noticed during the afternoon that the 1812 has been cancelled, as had the 1839 which was the final journey for which connections via the above route were possible. (There was a later option at 1940 via Manchester, but the combination of tickets I had would have precluded that and, as explained below, in the end this would not have been an option anyway.) I therefore decided to arrive at the station in time for the earlier service at 1739, and seek to get agreement to me using that service.

The 1739's arrival got later and later., and around 1800 it was announced that there was a signalling problem which was delaying all services.

It got to the point where I had to think of an alternative plan so that I was not stranded. I checked whether there was still time to get home to Halifax via London, and there was, provided a London service actually arrived at the station. The late running 1730 to Paddington arrived at 1815, and I decided to quickly buy a ticket online and take that service. Whilst travelling, I then bought a ticket for the 2030 Kings Cross to Leeds, (I'm currently on this service) which gives a connection to the final train to Halifax, arriving 0006.

All told, these additional tickets cost £63.94.

(In the event, it is clear I made the right decision as the 1739 from Oxford eventually left at 1845, and then was terminated short at Banbury, so I was have been even more stuck had I waited for it. The best that could have happened is that I was allowed to use the 1958 to Manchester Piccadilly, but this in the end left Banbury at 2034, and is currently running 30 minutes late. If this continues, it will arrive at Manchester Piccadilly at 2257, which gives insufficient time to get across to Manchester Victoria for the final Halifax service at 2323.)

My questions are:

1. I recognise that the NRCoT gives me a right to a refund if my train is disrupted and I decide not to travel. I'm also aware of the internal guidance for Delay Repay that, in split ticketing cases, all of the tickets relevant to the delay should be taken into account. Does the same apply to disruption refund cases?

2. Is there a case for seeking compensation for the new ticket which needed to be bought for the alternative route (offset by any refund for the original tickets)? I recognise it would have been preferable to explore seeking agreement to the original rickets being used for this alternative route whilst at Oxford but, given it involved different TOCs, I doubt any station staff member would have been able to authorise it. The reality is that my original 1812 train had been cancelled and, had I waited for the late running 1739, I would have ended up stuck at either Banbury or Manchester, from which any options to get my home that Cross Country could have explored would very likely have cost them more than the £63.94 for my new tickets.

 

[Benjwri]

You do have a case for compensation for the rerouteing (although not having asked station staff could make it slightly harder. This is under Regulation 1371/2007 on Rail Passengers’ Rights and Obligations (UK gov guidance available here) states that:

Where there is a reasonable expectation that a delay that will lead to arrival at the final destination 60 minutes or more late, passengers may either choose to have a:

• refund of the fare when the journey will no longer serve the passenger’s originally planned purpose. The refund will include the return journey where appropriate

or

• continuation or re-routeing under comparable transport conditions to the final destination at the earliest opportunity

or

• continuation or re-routeing under comparable transport conditions to the final destination at a later date at the passenger’s convenience

This clearly shows it was the operators responsibility to reroute you, as your delay would be significantly over 60 minutes.

As you were also going to be stranded you should have some cover under NRCoT clause 28.2:

Where disruption prevents you from completing the journey for which your Ticket is valid and is being used, any Train Company will, where it reasonably can, provide you with alternative means of travel to your destination, or if necessary, provide overnight accommodation for you

In my opinion you should submit receipts for the two journeys mentioned, and any cross London travel, as a complaint to CrossCountry, quoting the two sources above and reminding them of the obligations to reroute you.

Unfortunately getting this compensation is easier said than done. Many rail companies like to think the PRO doesn't apply to them, initial customer service are very unlikely to know, and it may take multiple escalations to get a proper response. If the train company refuses to honour their obligations you will be able to take it further to the Ombudsman, or even small claims court. It really is a test of how much effort you are willing to put in, as there is often no sound legal basis when these claims are refused, and their defence often relies on people losing the will to continue fighting them.

 

[TUC]

Trainsplit were impressively helpful in readily arranging a refund for my original Oxford-Halifax journey.

Cross Country have been very much less impressive in their response to my request for reimbursement of the additional cost of the more expensive replacement ticket via London. Their response said:

'I am very sorry to learn of the severe delay experienced due to the disruptions on the network. I can appreciate how frustrating this must have been for you, especially as this meant that you had to find an alternative route in order to complete your journey.

I note you are requesting a refund for your unused tickets from the point of purchase but would also like us to consider reimbursement of the costs incurred in order to travel via Kings Cross. I regret that we are unable to adhere to this request. This is in line with the National Conditions of Travel. I can only apologise for any disappointment this may cause you.'

Given that in my email to Cross Country I had highlighted both the circumstances set out in my OP above and referred specifically that my request was for compensation for the excess cost under paragraph 32 of the NRCoT, the response that Cross Country's refusal is in line with the NRCoT frankly makes no sense.

 

[glasgowniteowl]

Did you speak to any rail staff in regards to your options or advice about getting to your final destination as your original post doesn't seem to indicate you did, if you made unilateral decisions and never actual gave the toc an opportunity to reroute you etc it will diminish your recourse

 

[Watershed]

Trainsplit were impressively helpful in readily arranging a refund for my original Oxford-Halifax journey.

Cross Country have been very much less impressive in their response to my request for reimbursement of the additional cost of the more expensive replacement ticket via London. Their response said:

'I am very sorry to learn of the severe delay experienced due to the disruptions on the network. I can appreciate how frustrating this must have been for you, especially as this meant that you had to find an alternative route in order to complete your journey.

I note you are requesting a refund for your unused tickets from the point of purchase but would also like us to consider reimbursement of the costs incurred in order to travel via Kings Cross. I regret that we are unable to adhere to this request. This is in line with the National Conditions of Travel. I can only apologise for any disappointment this may cause you.'

Given that in my email to Cross Country I had highlighted both the circumstances set out in my OP above and referred specifically that my request was for compensation for the excess cost under paragraph 32 of the NRCoT, the response that Cross Country's refusal is in line with the NRCoT frankly makes no sense.

Unfortunately I can't say I'm surprised by that response. Most TOCs give people working in their customer services very little training on the NRCoT, let alone consumer law or anything like that. The result is quite foreseeable.

I'd respond asking for this to be reviewed by a manager as their response is quite clearly not in line with the NRCoT. Also ask if that is their "final response" or "deadlock letter" so that you can escalate to the Ombudsman. It's an empty threat in a sense, since the Ombudsman is an utter chocolate teapot, but it does sometimes have the desired effect as TOCs often seem to escalate such cases to a more senior member of staff who will give you what you're owed.

 

[TUC]

Did you speak to any rail staff in regards to your options or advice about getting to your final destination as your original post doesn't seem to indicate you did, if you made unilateral decisions and never actual gave the toc an opportunity to reroute you etc it will diminish your recourse

The problem was that, after a long period when no trains had arrived in the station, suddenly this sole train to London appeared. I had to make a quick decision whether to go for this option before it departed.

 

[glasgowniteowl]

The problem was that, after a long period when no trains had arrived in the station, suddenly this sole train to London appeared. I had to make a quick decision whether to go for this option before it departed.

So to clarify never spoke to staff at all to give them the opportunity to get you to your destination?

 

[TUC]

So to clarify never spoke to staff at all to give them the opportunity to get you to your destination?

The full details are in the OP. The only option left for going North was the 1940 via Manchester and, had staff authorised that, its late running would have left me stranded at Manchester. Also, the platform I was waiting on for the late running 1739 was on the opposite side of the station to the ticket office, and so I risked missing it had I moved. If that train had arrived I would have explained the situation to the guard when the opportunity arose.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As you travelled, you aren't entitled to a refund on both sets of tickets.

You are entitled to a refund of the new set only (assuming there wasn't a way to get the railway to sort the situation out, which should be tried first before forking out yourself), plus any Delay Repay on the originals based on the actual arrival time vs the planned arrival time.

Applying for a refund rather than DR on the original tickets has got you stuck here I am afraid, assuming that's what you did. If that isn't what you did, I think XC have simply misunderstood.

 

[glasgowniteowl]

The full details are in the OP. The only option left for going North was the 1940 via Manchester and, had staff authorised that, its late running would have left me stranded at Manchester. Also, the platform I was waiting on for the late running 1739 was on the opposite side of the station to the ticket office, and so I risked missing it had I moved. If that train had arrived I would have explained the situation to the guard when the opportunity arose.

OK so you did not seek advice from any staff member it seems, you also seem to have made assumptions that staff members could not authorise travel via a different route which an authorised member of railway staff infact can do, so you have not given the railway the opportunity to arrange rerouting, alternative travel taxi etc and took your own unilateral action and want the railway to pay the difference, thats not unreasonable however as such your rights to redress basically come down to a good will gesture unfortunately

 

[TUC]

As you travelled, you aren't entitled to a refund on both sets of tickets.

You are entitled to a refund of the new set only (assuming there wasn't a way to get the railway to sort the situation out, which should be tried first before forking out yourself), plus any Delay Repay on the originals based on the actual arrival time vs the planned arrival time.

Applying for a refund rather than DR on the original tickets has got you stuck here I am afraid, assuming that's what you did. If that isn't what you did, I think XC have simply misunderstood.

All I am seeking to do is get back to the position I would have been in had the disruption not occurred e.g. the original tickets cost £26.07 The new tickets had a total cost of £63.94. I recognise that I can't expect to have effectively travelled for free by getting a full refund on both sets of tickets. I'm simply seeking to be back in a position where the net cost to me is £26.07. That implies a partial refund from Cross Country on top of the Trainsplit refund.

The reason why I went for a refund rather than Delay Repay on the original tickets is that my understanding is that for Delay Repay to be applicable you have to have actually travelled and encountered delay. In my case, there was not a practicable journey left that evening on the routes for which the original ticket was valid, and for Delay Repay to be applicable.

 

[JBuchananGB]

If I understand this correctly you are trying to obtain £11.80 from XC. This being the £63.94 spent on replacement tickets, less the £26.07 refunded by Trainsplit, less the £26.07 which you consider reasonable to pay. Is that correct? I suppose you could challenge their reply explaining this clearly to them and they might make a goodwill payment. It is so far outside the normal rules either for refunds or delay repay that you might just have to write it off.

 

[Belperpete]

I have to agree with Bletchleyite. By unilaterally cancelling your original tickets, you have considerably weakened your position, as in doing so you have cancelled any rights that you held with respect to your original journey. It would have been far better to have kept those tickets, and demanded that XC refund the cost of your new ticket and pay compensation for any delay you incurred. Now you are entirely reliant on a goodwill gesture.

It may be worthwhile pointing out to XC that you saved them the cost of providing a taxi to get you to your destination, which would have been the outcome had you continued on your original itinerary.

You also seem to have spent the best part of 3/4 of an hour on the station without seeking any assistance from staff. Surely you had time to visit the booking office and get a revised itinerary in that time? Again, that would have given you stronger grounds had you got stranded, and needed a taxi arranging for you. Personally , I would have gone straight to the booking office on arrival at the station, if my original train were cancelled, to get a revised itinerary printed.

It might also be worth considering, that having unilaterally decided to reroute yourself, what would your position have been had something gone wrong on the new routing, say had there been disruption on the tube and you failed to get to KX on time.

 

[Haywain]

All I am seeking to do is get back to the position I would have been in had the disruption not occurred e.g. the original tickets cost £26.07 The new tickets had a total cost of £63.94. I recognise that I can't expect to have effectively travelled for free by getting a full refund on both sets of tickets. I'm simply seeking to be back in a position where the net cost to me is £26.07. That implies a partial refund from Cross Country on top of the Trainsplit refund.

The reason why I went for a refund rather than Delay Repay on the original tickets is that my understanding is that for Delay Repay to be applicable you have to have actually travelled and encountered delay. In my case, there was not a practicable journey left that evening on the routes for which the original ticket was valid, and for Delay Repay to be applicable.

If the amounts you quote include, as they appear to, a 'share of saving' fee charged by Trainsplit, I don't see the train company being liable for that element. It is only the actual ticket price that can be recovered from them or considered for Delay Repay. Whether Trainsplit choose to refund it is another matter.

 

[yorkie]

I was planning to travel on the 1812 from Oxford today, changing at Sheffield and Leeds, to get to my destination of Halifax at 2227. (This was using several split tickets, all Advances, with the Sheffield to Leeds leg on a Northern-only ticket). I noticed during the afternoon that the 1812 has been cancelled, as had the 1839 which was the final journey for which connections via the above route were possible. (There was a later option at 1940 via Manchester, but the combination of tickets I had would have precluded that and, as explained below, in the end this would not have been an option anyway.) I therefore decided to arrive at the station in time for the earlier service at 1739, and seek to get agreement to me using that service.

The 1739's arrival got later and later., and around 1800 it was announced that there was a signalling problem which was delaying all services.

It got to the point where I had to think of an alternative plan so that I was not stranded

You can of course come up with your own plan and book separate tickets, however if you want to minimise costs, the best thing to do is to follow TOC advise.

Next time, try asking on Twitter, also create a thread here, and ask staff.

. I checked whether there was still time to get home to Halifax via London, and there was, provided a London service actually arrived at the station. The late running 1730 to Paddington arrived at 1815, and I decided to quickly buy a ticket online and take that service. Whilst travelling, I then bought a ticket for the 2030 Kings Cross to Leeds, (I'm currently on this service) which gives a connection to the final train to Halifax, arriving 0006.

All told, these additional tickets cost £63.94.

You can recover these costs provided you do not refund the originals, and if the train company who caused the delay either authorised it, or if they refuse to meet their obligations under the Passenger Rights Obligations (PRO).

(In the event, it is clear I made the right decision as the 1739 from Oxford eventually left at 1845, and then was terminated short at Banbury, so I was have been even more stuck had I waited for it. The best that could have happened is that I was allowed to use the 1958 to Manchester Piccadilly, but this in the end left Banbury at 2034, and is currently running 30 minutes late. If this continues, it will arrive at Manchester Piccadilly at 2257, which gives insufficient time to get across to Manchester Victoria for the final Halifax service at 2323.)

My questions are:

1. I recognise that the NRCoT gives me a right to a refund if my train is disrupted and I decide not to travel. I'm also aware of the internal guidance for Delay Repay that, in split ticketing cases, all of the tickets relevant to the delay should be taken into account. Does the same apply to disruption refund cases?

You can either claim a refund, or you can use the original tickets, follow the advice of the company, and claim Delay Repay.

2. Is there a case for seeking compensation for the new ticket which needed to be bought for the alternative route (offset by any refund for the original tickets)?

If the company refuses to come up with an alternative, then yes. But you must not cancel the originals, if so.

I recognise it would have been preferable to explore seeking agreement to the original rickets being used for this alternative route whilst at Oxford but, given it involved different TOCs, I doubt any station staff member would have been able to authorise it

If station staff don't authorise it, it's worth asking staff on the train. It's also worth asking on Twitter.

If NRCoT 28.2 applies, any company in a position to assist must do so.

Trainsplit were impressively helpful in readily arranging a refund for my original Oxford-Halifax journey.

Cross Country have been very much less impressive in their response to my request for reimbursement of the additional cost of the more expensive replacement ticket via London. Their response said:

As you refunded the journey, XC no longer have any liabilities towards you.

'I am very sorry to learn of the severe delay experienced due to the disruptions on the network. I can appreciate how frustrating this must have been for you, especially as this meant that you had to find an alternative route in order to complete your journey.

I note you are requesting a refund for your unused tickets from the point of purchase but would also like us to consider reimbursement of the costs incurred in order to travel via Kings Cross. I regret that we are unable to adhere to this request. This is in line with the National Conditions of Travel. I can only apologise for any disappointment this may cause you.'

Given that in my email to Cross Country I had highlighted both the circumstances set out in my OP above and referred specifically that my request was for compensation for the excess cost under paragraph 32 of the NRCoT, the response that Cross Country's refusal is in line with the NRCoT frankly makes no sense.

Had you not sought a refund, you would have had to be conveyed - at no additional cost to yourself - to your final destination, without purchasing any additional tickets.

All I am seeking to do is get back to the position I would have been in had the disruption not occurred e.g. the original tickets cost £26.07 The new tickets had a total cost of £63.94. I recognise that I can't expect to have effectively travelled for free by getting a full refund on both sets of tickets. I'm simply seeking to be back in a position where the net cost to me is £26.07. That implies a partial refund from Cross Country on top of the Trainsplit refund.

The reason why I went for a refund rather than Delay Repay on the original tickets is that my understanding is that for Delay Repay to be applicable you have to have actually travelled and encountered delay. In my case, there was not a practicable journey left that evening on the routes for which the original ticket was valid, and for Delay Repay to be applicable.

It's either a refund of the original and paying the cost of the new tickets or no refund of the original and asking XC to foot the bill for the replacements.

However as you refunded the originals, there is no longer any prospect of getting a refund on the new tickets.

Had you not refunded the originals, you could have got a refund on the replacement tickets if XC refused to allow a suitable alternative.