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Compressor/Vacuum pump noise on slam door stock

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physics34

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Hi,

What makes the noise heard between 3:07 and 3:12 on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8OLtW9FiOc ?

I used to hear it on the slam door EMUs and really miss that sound.

Thanks.

It's either the air released from the "triple valve " brake when the driver releases the brake or when he is shutting down the cab. Could also be a compressor valve that releases a bit of air when the main res has reached its limit.
 
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cmodyssey

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Hi physics34,

Thanks for that.

Sorry, I meant the engine type of noise that you can hear continuously between those times, not the air release type of noise.

Any ideas?

Thanks.
 

AM9

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Hi physics34,

Thanks for that.

Sorry, I meant the engine type of noise that you can hear continuously between those times, not the air release type of noise.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

The only noise I can hear between those times is the 600HP diesel engine on tickover. If a real one had just started from cold, the compressor would be charging the reservoir to it's normal working pressure. That would also be true on an EMU so the electric air compressor wouldn't be drowned out by the engine from which the class's name 'Thumper' is taken.
 

edwin_m

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Did the Thumpers have an electric compressor like EMUs, or something driven mechanically like I believe DMUs had and have?
 

21C101

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Did the Thumpers have an electric compressor like EMUs, or something driven mechanically like I believe DMUs had and have?

they were DEMUs so same as EMUs but took electric power from a diesel engine next to the drivers cab van instead of a live rail.

That model is fantastic but I'm not sure I could stand having a thumping thumper on a model railway for long. They were indeed noisy beasts
 

Taunton

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That classic noise is a Reciprocating Air Compressor, which is a piston just like on the side of a steam locomotive. Powered by an electric motor at the "wheel end", it takes in air, compresses it, and puts it into the air brake pipe. The noise is the piston itself going backwards and forwards. Different designs had different speeds and thus different noises, over the years they seemed to get faster. Old London Underground trains had the same equipment and noise. In more recent times a different type of rotary compressor has become standard which makes a continuous and quieter noise. The compressor has a sensor switch on the air pipe, which starts it when the pressure starts to fall off and stops when full pressure is reached (for you mechanical engineers I'm reducing this to basics :) )

The pressure in air brakes is about 7 times atmospheric pressure so the piston has to compress air to one-seventh of its initial volume to get it through valves into the air pipes. Westinghouse was the dominant manufacturer, and indeed patent holder, and air brakes were often referred to as Westinghouse brakes.

Most steam locomotives in Britain used vacuum brakes, but there were a few for special rolling stock with air brakes, and they also had steam-powered reciprocating compressors, often mounted on the outside of the boiler, which made a comparable but even louder noise when pumping up air pressure. Suburban services from Liverpool Street used this type of brake, and until the electrification of the 1960s the sound of multiple "N7s" across the station pumping up air was the dominant noise of the station.
 
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AM9

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Most steam locomotives in Britain used vacuum brakes, but there were a few for special rolling stock with air brakes, and they also had steam-powered reciprocation compressors, often mounted on the outside of the boiler, which made a similar noise when pumping up air pressure.

Years ago, some steam locos used on suburban services had the Westinghouse compressor system. This was used on the Liverpool St local lines where services were intensive and stopped frequently.
The vacuum systems normally used on most other trains needed a large reservoir under each coach. The system response time was very slow leading to a braking ripple through a long train.
A compressor system ran at a much higher pressure (a vacuum system can never have more than one atmosphere, i.e. about 14psi). This meant a much quicker response time along the train and smaller reservoirs were needed.
That's why compressor systems used on all modern trains since the demise of steam.
 

sbt

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Another reason why you might see and hear Westinghouse compressors in steam days was that the Push-Pull systems of everybody but the GWR used compressed air. You would also have seen and heard them on the old LBSCR - they used air brakes.

--------------

Correction - you would only find the 'extra' compressors on the Southern. The GWR used a mechanical system, the LNER and LMS a vacuum system that matched their vacuum brakes. The SR tried the problematic LSWR mechanical system before switching to the LBSCR system which, since the LBSCR used air brakes, used a Westinghouse pump to provide air on an otherwise vacuum braked loco. Space to mount the pump was a determining factor in which locos got fitted for 'Motor Train' duties.
 
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talltim

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Is it technically possible to make a combined vacuum and air pump? The air pumped out of the vacuum system pressurising the air system?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
PS, I loved and miss that sound from my childhood forays south of the river (mainly to Molesy (Hampton Court) to visit my grandparents)
 

madannie77

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Some compressor action from last Saturday. The first 2 and a half minutes and from 14:25 onwards are the best for anyone nostalgic for the sound of Southern slam door EMUs. (The intervening 12 minutes are strictly for aficionados of slow and quiet trips through the Westmorland countryside in a 4-CEP - i.e. my other half!)

http://youtu.be/LQ0qyQEkasw

Of note is the difference in tone of the compressors in the MLVs and those in the 4-CEP.

The diesel engine sound heard as the second MLV passes is, to quote the Eden Valley website "a diesel generator which is used to supply power for lighting, heating, compressors and the MG sets of the 4-CEP when used in passenger service, enabling the batteries to power the train"
 

satisnek

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Ah yes, the good old Southern sound - "the engine's running, we'll be going soon" I used to hear the occasional lay passenger say!

One characteristic I remember (on EMUs) was that if the compressor was running at the time of departure from a station then it would slow down as the driver applied power. Presumably the further the train was from an electrical substation the greater the amount it slowed down.

I believe that it can still be heard on Class 442s (since they utilised old 4 REP kit), don't know about 455s.
 

cmodyssey

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What I would be interested to know is if the class 207 has a compressor in it.

Does anyone know?

Thanks.
 

Taunton

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Ah yes, the good old Southern sound - "the engine's running, we'll be going soon" I used to hear the occasional lay passenger say!
In fact, if this happened when the driver switched the cab in, it was true!

The old LMR Wirral units had the same equipment and also air-operated doors. If the train was standing at the terminus and you pressed the door open button, there was a large hiss, doors would open, and chances were that the compressor would cut in. Shocked mother to small child who had been allowed to press the door button : "Oooh, you've started the engine".
 

hassaanhc

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Ah yes, the good old Southern sound - "the engine's running, we'll be going soon" I used to hear the occasional lay passenger say!

One characteristic I remember (on EMUs) was that if the compressor was running at the time of departure from a station then it would slow down as the driver applied power. Presumably the further the train was from an electrical substation the greater the amount it slowed down.

I believe that it can still be heard on Class 442s (since they utilised old 4 REP kit), don't know about 455s.

455s definitely have that old compressor sound :D
 
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