"& Connections" Advance question

[DeeGee]

I realise that if an Advance "& connections" ticket has a service on the connecting portion of the journey which is reservable, then the ticket is not valid on an earlier train (without permission of the guard, I suppose).

If, however, I wanted to change my plans and get an earlier service to connect with the main train, I could pay a £10 fee and amend the booking on the connecting train.

Would it be possible, instead, to buy another ticket for the connecting service, if that ticket were cheaper than the £10?

For instance, Grimsby Town - London EC & Connections includes a TPE train (reserved) to Doncaster, and it is possible to get an Advance to Doncaster which is cheaper than the £10. If my plans changed and I wanted to travel an hour earlier, would it be permitted to buy this ticket (if it were available) and then pick up the correct train at Doncaster? Or would this be starting short?

 

[yorkie]

I realise that if an Advance "& connections" ticket has a service on the connecting portion of the journey which is reservable, then the ticket is not valid on an earlier train (without permission of the guard, I suppose).

That is what the Advance Fares FAQ says. This is part of The Manual and should be used to determine industry standard procedures. It is not part of the contract. Companies can give passengers more extensive rights.

If, however, I wanted to change my plans and get an earlier service to connect with the main train, I could pay a £10 fee and amend the booking on the connecting train.

The Conditions of Advance tickets state you may take an "appropriate" train. If your train is appropriate, I suggest you seek the guard before departure and request advice.

Would it be possible, instead, to buy another ticket for the connecting service, if that ticket were cheaper than the £10?

I would argue "yes" but others may argue "no".

For instance, Grimsby Town - London EC & Connections includes a TPE train (reserved) to Doncaster, and it is possible to get an Advance to Doncaster which is cheaper than the £10. If my plans changed and I wanted to travel an hour earlier, would it be permitted to buy this ticket (if it were available) and then pick up the correct train at Doncaster? Or would this be starting short?

TPEs policy is to allow travel on "appropriate" trains for connecting services, in line with the Conditions. I have confirmed this with a TPE guard who is both "keen" on tickets and very knowledgeable and is a member of this forum and whom I have met personally. Therefore, I would trust that you would not encounter a problem doing this. Out of courtesy and for your own peace of mind, I suggest seeking the guard before departure if at all possible.

Out of interest, would it be catastrophic for you to miss the booked train on the main leg of your journey, and is a prompt arrival time at your final destination absolutely crucial? Bear in mind that if you do miss the connection due to a delay on the first train, you may be entitled to delay compensation, depending on the extent of the delay to your journey.

 

[DeeGee]

It wouldn't be catastrophic at all. I travel for leisure at least a day in advance of when I need to be at my destination, if I'm travelling Inter City.

Just sometimes I think after I've booked the original ticket that it would be useful to have a longer time at the interchange station.

Usually not, though. And it's probably not worth paying for that extra time.

 

[clagmonster]

I would say in this case that when travelling on Grimsby-London advance tickets some Cleethorpes based TPE guards do ask for the reservation on the Grimsby-Doncaster leg.

As for the question though, if a valid ticket is purchased for the Grimsby-Doncaster leg to travel on an earlier train, I believe it is valid. The journey is Grimsby-London, Condition 19 allows 2 tickets to be used for one journey, the trains clearly stop at the split point which is Doncaster and you are not breaching any time, route or operator restrictions. I would however be wary about leaving the station at Doncaster, if you re-enter, which you would have to to continue to travel to London, you may be fouling the break of journey restriction on the Grimsby to London ticket.

 

[DeeGee]

I am conscious of the break of journey situation. I did raise a question on here a while ago about something similar, and there was debate as to whether Frenchgate and the Bus Station are part of a "Transport Interchange" or totally separate premises.

I'm just trying to find every little place where I can try to save a few quid. If I need refreshments, Sainsbury's is cheap (but off-station), Pumpkin is reasonably priced with a Bite card, but can be busy. I'd rather not pay on board the train.

Of course, I could bring my own picnic, but sometimes that's not practical.

 

[yorkie]

I would say in this case that when travelling on Grimsby-London advance tickets some Cleethorpes based TPE guards do ask for the reservation on the Grimsby-Doncaster leg.

But they would probably allow the ticket to be used on "appropriate" connecting trains. Asking to see the reservation does not necessarily mean that they would charge a new ticket to Doncaster if the passenger was using an "appropriate" train preceding the "booked" train to allow additional interchange time. But, as I said before, it is best to seek the guard for confirmation prior to departure.

 

[Mark_H]

TPEs policy is to allow travel on "appropriate" trains for connecting services, in line with the Conditions. I have confirmed this with a TPE guard who is both "keen" on tickets and very knowledgeable and is a member of this forum and whom I have met personally. Therefore, I would trust that you would not encounter a problem doing this. Out of courtesy and for your own peace of mind, I suggest seeking the guard before departure if at all possible.

Do you know if this is a written policy? It would be rather useful to me, if so.

I am conscious of the break of journey situation. I did raise a question on here a while ago about something similar, and there was debate as to whether Frenchgate and the Bus Station are part of a "Transport Interchange" or totally separate premises.

I've no idea of the legal position, but taking a commonsense approach I don't see how going to Frenchgate shopping centre could be considered to be staying on the station - it has no relationship to the station apart from happening to be next door to it. The Bus Station might be on - it's physically contiguous IIRC, and as you say it's transport-related. I doubt a visit to it is worth the risk of losing the right to use the rest of your ticket though.

 

[yorkie]

Do you know if this is a written policy? It would be rather useful to me, if so.

My advice: go to the National Rail journey planner and produce an itinerary with additional interchange time allowed, print it & bring it with you.

Print the Advance T&Cs which state "If the ‘Route’ also states ‘and Connections’, travel is allowed on appropriate connecting trains where shown on the ticket(s) or other valid travel itinerary."

Ask the guard before departure, if the answer is "no" produce the itinerary and Advance T&Cs. If they still say "no" then I would leave it. Just get the booked connecting train, and if you get delayed on your connecting train thus missing the main train, send a delay compensation claim to TPE and inform them you were prepared to avoid such a claim by taking an earlier train but they declined your offer and therefore the Company has incurred this additional expense.