Constraint on TPE orientation information?

[Subbsi]

Are there good reasons why TPE don’t seem able to provide public information on orientation (i.e. which end has first class/cycle store/disabled access) for their trains but other TOCs do? Is it due to the variety of formations/classes they run or some infrastructure constraint?

There are a number of short platforms on the Manchester-Huddersfield route so only certain doors/carriages in service so as an occasional cyclist and first class ticket holder on that line it’s incredibly frustrating not to be able to pick my service based on that or know where to stand. It must be even more frustrating for those with more pressing access needs.

 

[driver9000]

The TPE app generally has the train formation correctly uploaded. I've just looked for Huddersfield departures and they're all showing the train formation.

 

[Huntergreed]

Are there good reasons why TPE don’t seem able to provide public information on orientation (i.e. which end has first class/cycle store/disabled access) for their trains but other TOCs do? Is it due to the variety of formations/classes they run or some infrastructure constraint?

There are a number of short platforms on the Manchester-Huddersfield route so only certain doors/carriages in service so as an occasional cyclist and first class ticket holder on that line it’s incredibly frustrating not to be able to pick my service based on that or know where to stand. It must be even more frustrating for those with more pressing access needs.

Other TOC’s tend to have consistent formations, with first class normally always “at the London end” of the unit.

This isn’t the case with TPE and units/sets can run either way around (and do so daily) - hence why I presume it’s much more difficult for TPE to achieve this.

 

[Subbsi]

The TPE app generally has the train formation correctly uploaded. I've just looked for Huddersfield departures and they're all showing the train formation.

Yes the formation (type, number of carriages) is available but not the orientation (which end first/cycle/disabled) is not.

 

[driver9000]

Yes the formation (type, number of carriages) is available but not the orientation (which end first/cycle/disabled) is not.

It does show 1st class although admittedly it doesn't show cycle location (for example I'm looking at the 09:54 Huddersfield to Manchester and I see 1st at the rear). Wheelchair passengers now travel in 1st on TPE anyway but I've just found if you select Train facilities on the app it will show you cycle, disabled locations and toilets.

On 802s cycles go in coaches B and D. They go in A on the 397.

 

[Subbsi]

If they can show it in the app then it’s odd that they don’t show it on the station information boards - seems a bit exclusionary for those that can’t use apps or, like me use a different app

 

[mrcheek]

I think most other companies just wing it and guess which way round the train should be, because theyll be right 95% of the time.
With TPE formations can be all over the place, so its easier for them not to try guessing. Passengers will have to guess instead!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think most other companies just wing it and guess which way round the train should be, because theyll be right 95% of the time.
With TPE formations can be all over the place, so its easier for them not to try guessing. Passengers will have to guess instead!

It's shown correctly on the TPE app as others have pointed out. Just need to feed that into other systems.

It's not done on assumption for other TOCs - incorrect formations are generally displayed on screens and announced.

 

[156421]

Wheelchair passengers now travel in 1st on TPE anyway

Do they have to buy a first class ticket?

 

[rg177]

Do they have to buy a first class ticket?

No, they don't. Wheelchair user plus one companion gets upgraded.

 

[yrreb]

If they can show it in the app then it’s odd that they don’t show it on the station information boards - seems a bit exclusionary for those that can’t use apps or, like me use a different app

It should be on station information boards as the data is now received the same as the TPE app. Is there a particular station where it doesn’t appear to be doing this?

 

[johnnychips]

It should be on station information boards as the data is now received the same as the TPE app. Is there a particular station where it doesn’t appear to be doing this?

In Doncaster, the now automatic announcer gets it wrong occasionally.

 

[Spartacus]

It does show 1st class although admittedly it doesn't show cycle location (for example I'm looking at the 09:54 Huddersfield to Manchester and I see 1st at the rear). Wheelchair passengers now travel in 1st on TPE anyway but I've just found if you select Train facilities on the app it will show you cycle, disabled locations and toilets.

On 802s cycles go in coaches B and D. They go in A on the 397.

In my experience it shows it but you've no better chance than random of it being right, unless it's a 68.

 

[Jay_312]

It does show 1st class although admittedly it doesn't show cycle location (for example I'm looking at the 09:54 Huddersfield to Manchester and I see 1st at the rear). Wheelchair passengers now travel in 1st on TPE anyway but I've just found if you select Train facilities on the app it will show you cycle, disabled locations and toilets.

On 802s cycles go in coaches B and D. They go in A on the 397.

Wheelchair users who travel on the 185 fleet aren't permitted in 1st class as the wheelchair space is outside that area.

On the Nova Fleet of trains yes they are allowed in 1st as that is where the wheelchair area is.

 

[Subbsi]

It should be on station information boards as the data is now received the same as the TPE app. Is there a particular station where it doesn’t appear to be doing this?

I don’t have think orientation information is shown at either Leeds or Manchester.

Pictures below from Leeds today show orientation and loading information available on screens for LNER but not for TPE services.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

In my experience, screens at TPE-managed stations tend to display the formation correctly.
At Northern-managed stations the information is often incorrect, and that's assuming the screen is functioning properly and not stuck displaying a service from three hours ago.

 

[SteveyBee131]

In my experience, screens at TPE-managed stations tend to display the formation correctly.
At Northern-managed stations the information is often incorrect, and that's assuming the screen is functioning properly and not stuck displaying a service from three hours ago.

Not so on the South Route! Several times I've got a TPE train at Grimsby Town (a TPE station) and it hasn't arrived in the formation shown on the information screens. Not so bad when the station is quiet and you just have yourself and no luggage in tow, but somewhat infuriating when it happens on the day you're travelling with heavy luggage and have to find your way through a crowd along almost the full length of a busy platform!

 

[yrreb]

I don’t have think orientation information is shown at either Leeds or Manchester.

Pictures below from Leeds today show orientation and loading information available on screens for LNER but not for TPE services.

Good point - Manchester Victoria is lacking too as it's on a different system and currently can't reach the data available.

 

[Spartacus]

In my experience, screens at TPE-managed stations tend to display the formation correctly.
At Northern-managed stations the information is often incorrect, and that's assuming the screen is functioning properly and not stuck displaying a service from three hours ago.

I've asked them before and they've said they don't have the functionality, which makes displaying it pointless really.

Took note at Dewsbury this morning as there was a passenger in a wheelchair boarding. Boards suggested at least one first class/disabled end towards the middle of the 6 car 185, so that's understandably where they were positioned. When it turned up FC was front and rear... It's pure pot luck.

 

[rower40]

A bit off-topic, but I hope not by much.

Yesterday was my last-ever commute from Willington to Derby on XC class 170s. Since October, I have been noting which way round the train was, compared to what the tannoy reported "First class at <Front|Rear>". (However, with home-working etc, I'm not doing this journey every day, like I did before the pandemic).

I noted the orientation of 1D53 (0826 from Willington) on 15 separate days.
The orientation was announced:

Correctly on 6 days​

Incorrectly on 8 days​

Not given on 1 day (train was made up of 2 units)​

A hit-rate of 6 out of 14 means that it's better just to toss a coin to work out which way round the train is going to be. OR just wait at the end opposite to that suggested by the tannoy.

 

[xotGD]

How about someone at Hull sees the train leave and texts someone at Leeds to say that First Class is at the front today. Person at Leeds walks down the platform and tells the passengers. Would that be too difficult?