Contactless cap question

[johntea]

Just a 'in hindsight' ticketing question regarding Crossrail to Reading (it didn't click on my trip last week regarding the 'TFL Rail' services until too late!)

If I was spending the day in London on the Underground or similar then heading to Reading (or vice versa) using contactless would all that travel 'cap' at some point? I ended up doing a route via Ealing Broadway on GWR at a off peak return cost of £29.40 I believe (travelled to Reading on Saturday and returned Monday)

 

[hkstudent]

Just a 'in hindsight' ticketing question regarding Crossrail to Reading (it didn't click on my trip last week regarding the 'TFL Rail' services until too late!)

If I was spending the day in London on the Underground or similar then heading to Reading (or vice versa) using contactless would all that travel 'cap' at some point? I ended up doing a route via Ealing Broadway on GWR at a off peak return cost of £29.40 I believe (travelled to Reading on Saturday and returned Monday)

Contactless only offers a Day Cap.
But do note that a single fare on Contactless is more or less half a Day Return fare

 

[matt_world2004]

Contactless only offers a Day Cap.
But do note that a single fare on Contactless is more or less half a Day Return fare

It offers a weekly cap???

 

[JonathanH]

Just a 'in hindsight' ticketing question regarding Crossrail to Reading (it didn't click on my trip last week regarding the 'TFL Rail' services until too late!)

If I was spending the day in London on the Underground or similar then heading to Reading (or vice versa) using contactless would all that travel 'cap' at some point?

Yes, £26 off-peak cap from Reading.

National Rail pay as you go fares, caps and Travelcards beyond Zone 9

Fares for National Rail services beyond Zone 9 in London

tfl.gov.uk

Daily and weekly caps apply to journeys to and from these stations.

Station Anytime Day Travelcard Off-peak Day Travelcard
Iver £21.00 £14.00
Langley Berks £23.50 £14.90
Slough £24.30 £15.50
Burnham Bucks £26.80 £16.20
Taplow £29.40 £17.30
Maidenhead £30.70 £17.90
Twyford £36.10 £21.40
Reading £55.90 £26.00

The Monday to Sunday cap from Reading is £143.80.

A question is what is 'inside' the cap from Reading - presumably just Reading to West Drayton and Zones 1-6?

 

[MikeWh]

A question is what is 'inside' the cap from Reading - presumably just Reading to West Drayton and Zones 1-6?

Correct, as far as I understand it.

 

[hkstudent]

It offers a weekly cap???

It does.
But for the case of OP's journey, weekly cap seems not relevant

 

[JonathanH]

Correct, as far as I understand it.

Do you know what the boundary fares are?

If I were to reach the off-peak cap from Redhill for example, which is £21.10, will the daily off-peak cap including Reading and Redhill be £33.90? (That is £26 less £13.20 (1-6) plus £21.10 (1-Redhill))

I've established previously that there is a hierarchy for Contactless caps where they are 'in the zones'. That is, for example, that travelling to Potters Bar and Redhill only hits the Redhill cap. Presumably, all the "Contactless only' caps are individually outside the zones and any hierarchical structure?

 

[MikeWh]

No, I don't know what the boundary fares are. If I had to guess then I'd say they were the single fares from West Drayton for stations to Reading. Likewise Elstree and Hadley Wood for Luton Airport Parkway and Welwyn Garden City respectively. Extension fares beyond zone 6 have always been somewhat opaque, especially since GTR forced different contactless extensions (compared to Oyster) on the Gatwick extension.

Within Oyster zones 1-15 you are correct that the cap for the highest zone reached applies. Potters Bar is 11 so Redhill in 14 trumps it. Having said that, Potters Bar and Radlett are now treated differently on contactless, so the same may not be true.

I need to go out and do some experimentation with these new caps now we are not being asked to avoid trains as much.

 

[hkstudent]

No, I don't know what the boundary fares are. If I had to guess then I'd say they were the single fares from West Drayton for stations to Reading. Likewise Elstree and Hadley Wood for Luton Airport Parkway and Welwyn Garden City respectively. Extension fares beyond zone 6 have always been somewhat opaque, especially since GTR forced different contactless extensions (compared to Oyster) on the Gatwick extension.

Within Oyster zones 1-15 you are correct that the cap for the highest zone reached applies. Potters Bar is 11 so Redhill in 14 trumps it. Having said that, Potters Bar and Radlett are now treated differently on contactless, so the same may not be true.

I need to go out and do some experimentation with these new caps now we are not being asked to avoid trains as much.

Oh, would you try to do a FOI request to TfL to find out the capping?

 

[mmh]

Oh, would you try to do a FOI request to TfL to find out the capping?

It's the sort of thing which doesn't, or shouldn't, need an FOI request. It's really not the kind of thing FOI was intended for.

 

[MikeWh]

It's the sort of thing which doesn't, or shouldn't, need an FOI request. It's really not the kind of thing FOI was intended for.

I agree, but. If TfL won't publish the information voluntarily then an FOI request is warranted. The problem at the moment is that responding to FOI requests is utilising resources that TfL would rather channel into running the best service possible. Depending on the information required it may be more difficult to track down with most staff working away from the office. They are actively discouraging FOI requests, so I'd rather not risk answers to those requests that I really need by asking for additional information.

If anyone else wants to try asking though ...

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

It's the sort of thing which doesn't, or shouldn't, need an FOI request. It's really not the kind of thing FOI was intended for.

If TfL told passengers what they're going to be charged for using their services then there wouldn't be a problem here. Any requirement to make a request is, in this instance, entirely of their own making. It's entirely reasonable to want to know what you're going to pay before you use a service. As for what FoI is meant for, that is irrelevant but any request as here would be entirely within the spirit of transparency fostered by the Act.

I agree, but. If TfL won't publish the information voluntarily then an FOI request is warranted. The problem at the moment is that responding to FOI requests is utilising resources that TfL would rather channel into running the best service possible.

An organisation as large as TfL has people dedicated to answering FoI requests and the like. I'm sorry but I simply don't buy the idea that it isn't right to ask them how much they are going to bill you. If they're happy to bill people then they should be happy to clearlu set out those charges in advance.

I find TfL rather opaque on the finer details of how Oyster and contactless work,. Perhaps they are trying too hard to keep it simple.

 

[MikeWh]

An organisation as large as TfL has people dedicated to answering FoI requests and the like.

They do, yes. They are all working remotely AIUI. They have to liaise with staff in other departments to extract the information required. Many of those staff are either out of the office or concentrating on providing the service.

I'm sorry but I simply don't buy the idea that it isn't right to ask them how much they are going to bill you. If they're happy to bill people then they should be happy to clearlu set out those charges in advance.

You're focussing on the specific of this issue rather than the bigger picture. I agree with what you're saying, but I need to be conscious of the overall position.

I find TfL rather opaque on the finer details of how Oyster and contactless work,. Perhaps they are trying too hard to keep it simple.

Again I agree, though sometimes I can see how keeping it simple aids understanding by the majority.

 

[Deerfold]

If TfL told passengers what they're going to be charged for using their services then there wouldn't be a problem here. Any requirement to make a request is, in this instance, entirely of their own making. It's entirely reasonable to want to know what you're going to pay before you use a service. As for what FoI is meant for, that is irrelevant but any request as here would be entirely within the spirit of transparency fostered by the Act.


An organisation as large as TfL has people dedicated to answering FoI requests and the like.

When I worked for TfL there was a department that managed FoI requests.

However, they didn't know everything the organisation did. I know several people (including myself) who spent half a day on digging out all the information for a request.

I agree that fares and capping information for less popular journeys should be easier to find.

 

[hkstudent]

When I worked for TfL there was a department that managed FoI requests.

However, they didn't know everything the organisation did. I know several people (including myself) who spent half a day on digging out all the information for a request.

I agree that fares and capping information for less popular journeys should be easier to find.

The fare capping information for out-of-zone-9 destinations are not in a user friendly place to find, and the document format is somewhat informative but not user friendly.
Would be good for them to put those capping information on the interactive fare (and travelcard) finder map.