Converting redundant DMUs into rescue trains?

[Tim R-T-C]

With the report into the Peckham incident, recent strandings at Victoria and on the ECML and GWML, is it time that Network Rail developed a rescue unit that would allow rapid de-training in these incidents - ideally within an hour.

Adapting a unit like a 153 to have wide doorways with retractable gangplanks, that can come alongside a stranded unit and rapidly deploy to provide an exit. Passengers are then shuttled to the nearest station, where even if they are stuck for a while, they will have fresh air and access to road transport. A rescue train could have three 153s - one with gangplanks and the others with high density seating to hold recovered passengers.

Produce a few of these and have them stabled near major hubs.

Obviously not all incidents would be accessible - if multiple trains are stranded it would block access - but many incidents seem to involve a single set, which could be accessed by wrong line working.

Thoughts?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Well, redundant EMU stock used to be converted to departmental de-icing/sandite/parcels units so why not? At least one or two for each region or area stabled at a strategic location like the Thunderbirds

Probably isn't happening because all stock these days are valuable assets earning money (unless sat around in sidings - warm store etc) and leasing companies don't wish to pay for conversion work etc. Then there's always the issue of finding a driver who won't just be sitting around all day having a fag and a cup of tea waiting for "that call"

 

[Bletchleyite]

You can do it with one of the service trains using a wheelchair ramp?

 

[Aictos]

You can do it with one of the service trains using a wheelchair ramp?

Umm no as a wheelchair ramp isn't designed for that

What they should use is a train evacuation bridge which is purpose designed for evacuating passengers between trains safely such as this one below:

https://www.workingatheightltd.com/...in_access/bespoke_train_evacuation_bridge.php

Equipment should only be used for what it is designed for and nothing else.

 

[Aictos]

The other thing to remember which @Fred26 can no doubt explain and that's the wheelchair ramps you see on the railways today all have different types of trains that they can be used with.

For example, the ramp that was used with the Class 313, Class 317, Class 321 or Class 365 cannot be used with the Class 387 that's why we have such things as a train evacuation bridge when it is needed to evacuate between trains.

As to spare units just sitting around, this isn't BR so won't happen as the resources are more intensely used.

A better idea would be is to use whatever train is in the area and use that to get the passengers off the stricken train onto.

 

[bluenoxid]

I’ve wondered about a specialised unit that can evacuate passengers to ground level either using a lift or steps.

I wonder if a Road Rail unit is an option for assisting with detraining passengers.

Alternatively, some form of powerful short diesel “locomotive” with a low profile to move stock.

 

[Aictos]

I’ve wondered about a specialised unit that can evacuate passengers to ground level either using a lift or steps.

Why spend millions on a specialised unit when you already have the equipment in place and methods of getting people off stranded trains, that sounds like a solution looking for a problem.

I wonder if a Road Rail unit is an option for assisting with detraining passengers.

They're designed for infrastructure work not for assisting with detraining passengers, again a solution looking for a problem.

I’ve wondered about a specialised unit that can evacuate passengers to ground level either using a lift or steps.

You know we already have something called a emergency ladder which believe it or not is used to evacuate passengers to ground level which is onboard the trains plus we also have these bridges to evacuate between trains so again a solution looking for a problem.

 

[AngusH]

Ladders are very slow though:

• Evacuation estimates
  
  Where only one ladder is provided on the train, it is estimated that it will take around 4 hours to carry out a full controlled evacuation of a stranded train of 400 passengers, i.e. approximately 30 seconds per passenger. The Infrastructure Manager or emergency services may be able to provide additional ladders, which will decrease the timescales commensurately, but this cannot be relied on. Rejoining the train will require similar timescales

https://www.rssb.co.uk/rgs/oodocs/atocnr gn sp01 iss 3.pdf

 

[big all]

it seem you are breaking down the problem and only covering one aspect
a train fails it can be a traction issue an electrical issue a braking issue etc sending a train to remove the passengers does not cover the whole issue
a failed train is 95% off the time better rescued including passengers usually by another similar compatable train usually the next service train
the action off detraning to another train on an adjacent track means perhaps about an hours delay to the overall recovery and line opening including closing adjacent lines that would normally be free flowing

 

[bluenoxid]

Why spend millions on a specialised unit when you already have the equipment in place and methods of getting people off stranded trains, that sounds like a solution looking for a problem.

They're designed for infrastructure work not for assisting with detraining passengers, again a solution looking for a problem.

You know we already have something called a emergency ladder which believe it or not is used to evacuate passengers to ground level which is onboard the trains plus we also have these bridges to evacuate between trains so again a solution looking for a problem.

Another train acting as a rescue unit are all preferred and in 95-97-99% of situations they will absolutely be the most suitable
option. Unfortunately, there are situations where this doesn’t work and other equipment might be more effective to achieve an evacuation. They won’t be cheap but neither are delay minutes, compensation and replacement buses.

HS2 will be very interesting when it has its first dewirement! Those are very long trains to evacuate.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It's been done before, the old Severn Tunnel rescue train was formed of heritage DMUs for a time. Though not primarily for the recovery of passengers IIRC.

I could see a role for retired Pacers as track recording units perhaps, but not anything involving rescue of stranded trains or their occupants for the same reason that they're being retired in the first place.

 

[pdeaves]

Would a problem be getting the 'rescue' unit to the stranded one alongside, finding a route through all the other trains that may well be queued effectively blocking the stranded one? Once that's done, it could well have been easier to use another unit that's in the vicinity (rather than add another one to a chaotic network).

I haven't explained very well, but hopefully you understand the point!

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Why spend millions on a specialised unit when you already have the equipment in place and methods of getting people off stranded trains, that sounds like a solution looking for a problem.

You know we already have something called a emergency ladder which believe it or not is used to evacuate passengers to ground level which is onboard the trains plus we also have these bridges to evacuate between trains so again a solution looking for a problem.

But there have been many incidents recently where people have been stranded for elongated periods and more often, they are starting to exit the train themselves, causing more problems and risks. If the facility exists, it is not being used.

Evacuating passengers onto the trackside is not always the best approach, particularly away from stations, in the dark.

Again, if it can be done, why isn't it?

 

[big all]

But there have been many incidents recently where people have been stranded for elongated periods and more often, they are starting to exit the train themselves, causing more problems and risks. If the facility exists, it is not being used.

Evacuating passengers onto the trackside is not always the best approach, particularly away from stations, in the dark.

Again, if it can be done, why isn't it?

everything has a cost
who would pay for it ??
is a perhaps 2-3% increase on fares be worth the possible saving off a few hours for say 1000 people a year

 

[61653 HTAFC]

But there have been many incidents recently where people have been stranded for elongated periods and more often, they are starting to exit the train themselves, causing more problems and risks. If the facility exists, it is not being used.

Evacuating passengers onto the trackside is not always the best approach, particularly away from stations, in the dark.

Again, if it can be done, why isn't it?

Having a separate rescue fleet just introduces another variable into an already complicated mix. There's a reason BR didn't retain old stock for this purpose and that reason was that it was unnecessary and impractical. Outside of specific settings like the Severn Tunnel anyway.

 

[AngusH]

everything has a cost
who would pay for it ??
is a perhaps 2-3% increase on fares be worth the possible saving off a few hours for say 1000 people a year

In terms of numbers, 2% of farebox income (9.5 billion in 2016/17) would be 190 million a year, so hopefully it could be done for less than this.

I think a sensible approach would be to set a target time for train evacuation in different types of location, then determine whether the target can actually be met across the whole network and if there are gaps where the existing arrangements don't work very well. Then fund improvements like dedicated vehicles (or whatever other schemes) in the areas where the existing system isn't sufficient. No need to have the same approach across the whole country.

Putting a small analysis team to work on improving train rescue and evacuation wouldn't cost more than a few hundred thousand pounds a year and demonstrates that the railway companies are doing something to solve the problem.