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Could the class 390s eventually find a home on the Midland Main Line?
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Why would the MML need them when they have 33 810s Also what happens to the west coast 805s and 807s
1) they’ll be quicker
2) they’re all electric
3) the 810s can go to Cross Country, which by then will have almost half the ‘Voyager’ network electrified.
Well, that's certainly two announcements that people weren't expecting on this thread!
To be fair, I have made it up. But it’s Mystic Rick looking into the Crystal Ball...
43096
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My prediction is the 390s will be needed for some sort of service launch on HS2 as the Hitachi/Alstom Derby combination will see seriously late delivery.
Mods note - split from various different threads.
Shhh. I’m deploying the tactic of saying something made up several times on different threads, in the hope that it will eventually became accepted as truth. It seemed to work for the 45th President.
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Correct. One assumes the lesson has been learned here!
The first train is expected to roll off the production line around 2027. Following a rigorous process of testing and commissioning, the first passengers are expected to be carried between 2029 and 2033
And with MML electrification finishing in the same time window, where could the Pendolinos go
LOL The Irony
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Would they keep or disable tilt?The first train is expected to roll off the production line around 2027. Following a rigorous process of testing and commissioning, the first passengers are expected to be carried between 2029 and 2033
And with MML electrification finishing in the same time window, where could the Pendolinos go
I know this is only your suggestion / rumour, but would they even fit in St Pancras? And what would whoever is operating the route at the time do with regards to 5/10 portion working?Correct. One assumes the lesson has been learned here!
The first train is expected to roll off the production line around 2027. Following a rigorous process of testing and commissioning, the first passengers are expected to be carried between 2029 and 2033
And with MML electrification finishing in the same time window, where could the Pendolinos go
But surely a 9 car would struggle to fit into St Pancras, let alone an 11car?
The Class 810s which were specifically configured to fit in St Pancras are a pair of 5x24m sets, ie 240m total. A 9-car 390 is 218m long which would fit easily.
Keep it - that’s the whole point of my suggestion! The MML is perfect for tilting trains.
Yes. St Pancras can accommodate 240m trains. A 9 car Pendolino is 217.5m. A (putative) 10 car would be 241.5m, which I suspect would be able to be accommodated with a few tweaks. But if it didn’t a fleet of, say, 24 x 9 cars would be more than enough.
You wouldn’t need portion working.
Good to know
Nicholas Lewis
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WCML is far more curvy compared to MML but if went to tilt the line has to move to absolute geometry which has a higher cost in track maintenance better off just spending the cash on getting the Mk3A overheads (and the coaches back!) upgraded for 125mph.
You take coaches out of them and throw them away if you don't need them.
Someone will be along soon to claim they can't be re-formed, despite having been 8, 9 and 11 coach at various times.
It really isn’t!
The Planner
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HS2 won't be using Pendos. They would rather take the embarrassment of opening late.
Trans Pennine?And with MML electrification finishing in the same time window, where could the Pendolinos go
Plenty of bends between Manchester and Leeds
The Pendolinos are too long - Transpennine will be a 200m train railway. I suppose you could take out a coach.
YorksLad12
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Cut them down to 5 cars each and give them to Northern.
Because, someone always tries to offload some old stock up here so I thought I'd get ahead of the curve
Because, someone always tries to offload some old stock up here so I thought I'd get ahead of the curve
Cut them down to 5 cars each and give them to Northern.
Because, someone always tries to offload some old stock up here so I thought I'd get ahead of the curve
That would be the same Northern which has seen over 100 new trains delivered to it in the last 3 years, or is there a different one?
Well, they did have 5-car 180s...Cut them down to 5 cars each and give them to Northern.
Because, someone always tries to offload some old stock up here so I thought I'd get ahead of the curve
YorksLad12
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Yes. But someone always says... etc.
Wasn't that just the one hire from Grand Central in the morning peak? I think they were still doing so, pre-Covid.
supervc-10
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A small fleet for Brum/Liverpool/Manchester to Scotland to take advantage of the tilting speeds on the WCML might make sense for half of them, and the other half to EMT?
Chiltern006
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can't see them going to MML as the 810s will be less than 10 years old, not something EMR will want to get rid of anytime soon
What about ECML, or HS1, running london-ashford shuttles. avanti can keep some 11 cars, with some going to LNER (or whoever it is then) and some going to HS1??
What about ECML, or HS1, running london-ashford shuttles. avanti can keep some 11 cars, with some going to LNER (or whoever it is then) and some going to HS1??
I'm sorry if I'm missing something, but I don't see much logic in this suggestion. The MML is getting 810s, which sound about perfect for its needs. When full electrification is achieved, these can lose their diesels and still be ideal. As far as I remember, adding tilt means a lot of infrastructure work as well, which would only gain a few minutes, and realistically would only be useful for a decade before the pendos reach the end of their life - with the fastest trains eventually moving to HS2, I can't see any reason why you'd build new to replace them.
I can't see any logical place for the displaced pendos other than scrap, or perhaps used to cover a temporary shortfall of stock in non-tilt mode once HS2 phase 2a opens. They'll be over 30 years old after all.
I can't see any logical place for the displaced pendos other than scrap, or perhaps used to cover a temporary shortfall of stock in non-tilt mode once HS2 phase 2a opens. They'll be over 30 years old after all.
It was 3x units used (largely) on services heading towards Blackpool from Manchester, sub-leased from East Coast but came direct, and returned to First Great Western (They never turned a wheel in passenger sevice for East Coast in the end)
YorksLad12
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Every day's a school day - I have no recollection of them at all. Ta.
tbtc
Veteran Member
Yeah, there were two periods of 180s at Northern
In the Serco years, there were two diagrammed per day on the Blackpool North to Hazel Grove service from three that Northern had at the time (although they didn't always manage two in service at the same time, given reliability)
More recently, Arriva (Northern) borrowed a 180 in the morning peak from Arriva (Grand Central) to provide additional capacity on the Bradford Interchange line on a diagram that then formed a mid-morning Bradford Interchange - London service (i.e. GC weren't needing the train until after the rush hour, so it could be "borrowed" without any GC passengers losing out)
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