Counted place conventions

[LostMittens]

I'm new to travelling by UK trains, and seeking some information about the conventions for train services using counted place reservations. I have purchased an advance ticket (1st) for a TPE service from Liverpool to York that I believe is a counted place service, a Saturday AM departure in September (purchased direct with TPE, it turned out to be 2GBP cheaper than any other point of sale for reasons unclear).

Prior to purchase, while waiting for Advance fares to become available for my travel date, I had tested out dummy bookings for the same time departure on the same and other Saturday mornings, and found that they all led to the function for seat reservations. Now that the advance fares for my trip are available, I found that when doing my actual booking, it said there were no reservations available and that I can sit in any available seat in my class of service. I got that same message no matter which booking service I tried to use (I checked a few other TOCs, and this forum's ticketing site as well).

Really, that's all fine if it is counted place, and we'll make do whatever happens...but as all of my other train journeys on this visit to the UK have offered seat reservations, not having a specific seat reservation is doing my head in a bit, especially since I'm travelling with others and would ideally like to be sure we are able to sit together for the journey. Can I reasonably be assured that TPE won't later open seat reservations for this trip (i.e., can I be sure that this will remain a counted place service until departure, preventing people who book in July or August from snapping up all the together seats as they book)? As I'm boarding at Lime St, I believe I'm boarding at the start of the run so I'm happy to just get there a bit early with my group so we can all get seated together when they start boarding.

Since we have advance fares and are essentially locked into this departure time, do we have anything to worry about re: counted place, or is our plan to just turn up a bit early a solid one?

 

[Benjwri]

Its likely they will open up reservations for actual seats, as you say you can either turn up earlier and get seats together, or closer to the time you can book reservations only for free with GWR online (They have an option on the ‘My tickets’ page to book a reservation separately. I’ve heard TPE might have this too so maybe worth checking that) or at a ticket office.

 

[LostMittens]

Its likely they will open up reservations for actual seats, as you say you can either turn up earlier and get seats together, or closer to the time you can book reservations only for free with GWR online (They have an option on the ‘My tickets’ page to book a reservation separately. I’ve heard TPE might have this too so maybe worth checking that) or at a ticket office.

Thanks for this! The TPE site did let me submit a separate “seat reservation” but it says the same thing as my ticket:

“You have a place on this train - you can sit in any vacant seat in this class of service.”

I thought about checking with the TPE staff when we arrive in Liverpool a few days before this journey, but my Canadian brain (coming from the Quebec-Windsor corridor, where timed tickets and seat reservations are the norm) worried that would be too late if reservations do open up for specific seats sometime between now and September.

 

[Benjwri]

Thanks for this! The TPE site did let me submit a separate “seat reservation” but it says the same thing as my ticket:

“You have a place on this train - you can sit in any vacant seat in this class of service.”

I thought about checking with the TPE staff when we arrive in Liverpool a few days before this journey, but my Canadian brain (coming from the Quebec-Windsor corridor, where timed tickets and seat reservations are the norm) worried that would be too late if reservations do open up for specific seats sometime between now and September.

I would periodically check back by making a dummy booking with a retailer which allows you to see your reserved seats before you pay, then when that starts giving an actual seat try again how you just did. Likely it’s just some of the required data hasn’t been uploaded into the system.

I would suggest checking every month or so.

 

[LostMittens]

I would periodically check back by making a dummy booking with a retailer which allows you to see your reserved seats before you pay, then when that starts giving an actual seat try again how you just did. Likely it’s just some of the required data hasn’t been uploaded into the system.

I would suggest checking every month or so.

Thanks, will take this advice! Much appreciated.

 

[DelW]

Thanks, will take this advice! Much appreciated.

I don't know how these TPE services work, but in general terms, neither the availability of, nor a requirement for, a counted place reservation, necessarily means that there will be any actual visible seat by seat reservations on the trains.

My local TOC, SWR, uses counted place reservations for its advance tickets, but none of their services have any means to display reservations. Nor does having one guarantee a seat or even space on the train, bearing in mind that most of their passengers are travelling on walk-up or season tickets, which aren't assigned to any specific service. All seats are simply first come, first served.

 

[Benjwri]

I don't know how these TPE services work, but in general terms, neither the availability of, nor a requirement for, a counted place reservation, necessarily means that there will be any actual visible seat by seat reservations on the trains.

My local TOC, SWR, uses counted place reservations for its advance tickets, but none of their services have any means to display reservations. Nor does having one guarantee a seat or even space on the train, bearing in mind that most of their passengers are travelling on walk-up or season tickets, which aren't assigned to any specific service. All seats are simply first come, first served.

Liverpool to York will be an IET because part is on diesel, and will almost certainly have reservations.

 

[Silver Cobra]

It does appear that TPE do sometimes use counted place reservations rather than specific seat reservations. When I used them to travel between Manchester Victoria, Leeds and Hull back in March, all the services I had booked advances on only gave me counted place reservations. These bookings were all done on the TPE website, and on the days of travel no seat reservations were present on the actual trains. Granted, all the services I travelled on were operated with Class 185s (the specific routes I used were Leeds to Hull and Manchester Victoria to Redcar Central, but only between Victoria and Leeds for this route), and the services on several days were altered due to closure of the line between Leeds and Selby (Saturday) and between Huddersfield and Leeds (Friday and Tuesday). Conversely a trip I have booked with TPE between Leeds and Scarborough in August on a Class 185 service has been issued with actual search reservations.

So my guess is that either the Leeds-Hull and Victoria-Redcar routes only have counted places now, or TPE might be dropping seat reservations in favour of counted places when engineering work alters the timetable. If it happens to be the latter, then depending on the date in September the OP is travelling, the Liverpool-Newcastle IET services might be diverted between Manchester Victoria and Leeds, running via Hebden Bridge and calling at Brighouse, a station they don't normally serve.

 

[LostMittens]

So my guess is that either the Leeds-Hull and Victoria-Redcar routes only have counted places now, or TPE might be dropping seat reservations in favour of counted places when engineering work alters the timetable. If it happens to be the latter, then depending on the date in September the OP is travelling, the Liverpool-Newcastle IET services might be diverted between Manchester Victoria and Leeds, running via Hebden Bridge and calling at Brighouse, a station they don't normally serve.

This is indeed our routing - calling at Lea Green, Norton Le Willows, Manchester Victoria, Brighouse, Dewsbury, Leeds, York. Does that mean we could be on a Class 185 instead of Nova 1, which I've otherwise been led to believe would service our route? With only 15 first class seats, we'd definitely want to be among first to board in this case.

Edit: I think I've answered my own question. Thanks to the routing visibility on the forum's ticketing site, I see that our trip is continuing beyond York to Redcar Central, so assumedly yes - would be a Class 185 train instead of the Nova 1 that I was expecting.