Crossrail - Construction updates and progress towards opening (now expected 24 May 2022)

[hwl]

Could part of the confusion have been that during its construction Abbey wood was a network rail owned station.

Most Crossrail station "domestic" electrics were subcontracted out though several layers. In some cases the main station contractors were very light on inhouse electrical expertise (design and PM) so made huge number of mistakes. In case of two stations the main contractor recognised this and initially hired a renowned specialist to do all the electrical design and management for them but then sacked them as they were to expensive (would have been far cheaper in hindsight!) and couldn't see where the value was added.

 

[MotCO]

Most Crossrail station "domestic" electrics were subcontracted out though several layers. In some cases the main station contractors were very light on inhouse electrical expertise (design and PM) so made huge number of mistakes. In case of two stations the main contractor recognised this and initially hired a renowned specialist to do all the electrical design and management for them but then sacked them as they were to expensive (would have been far cheaper in hindsight!) and couldn't see where the value was added.

Who was responsible for the extra cost - was it the spec which was wrong, or was it the works?

 

[AM9]

Who was responsible for the extra cost - was it the spec which was wrong, or was it the works?

I suspect that like most large projects, the originaltenders for the estimates that had to be optimistic enough to get the work in the first place, poorly defined the work to be done which the contractors made fit the budget until the uplift came along. A simplistic 'who can we blame' is never going to serve any useful purpose.

 

[MotCO]

. A simplistic 'who can we blame' is never going to serve any useful purpose.

I agree up to a point, but when it is public money at stake, I would hope that there were sufficient safeguards in place to ensure that cost overruns were the exception rather than the norm?

 

[spyinthesky]

Let’s hope there is no public inquiry spending a few more million.

 

[AM9]

I agree up to a point, but when it is public money at stake, I would hope that there were sufficient safeguards in place to ensure that cost overruns were the exception rather than the norm?

The 'norm' should be other projects with equivalent technical complexity and risks and commercial environment. There's no point in cherry picking a low risk easy programme and using that as a pillar of project management quality and morality. In addition and retrospective should also duly consider the degree of governmental support vs interference. When all that has been considered by a person or persons genuinely qualified to do so, then the blame-mongers can play games with the published findings.

 

[rd749249]

MTR staff and families have been invited to volunteer for Trial Ops testing. We have been given the following dates for these exercises:

13Feb - Woolwich & Custom House - Open Route & train to train evacuation
19Feb - Woolwich & Farringdon - Tunnel to LU station evacuation & station evacuation
26Feb - Woolwich - train to train evacuation in tunnel via Limmo Shaft
05Mar - Woolwich & CW - Tunnel to MTR station evacuation & station evacuation
13Mar - Paddington and TCR - 24tph timetable test

I don't know if/when other TFL staff are involved.

 

[JonathanH]

05Mar - Woolwich & CW - Tunnel to MTR station evacuation & station evacuation
13Mar - Paddington and TCR - 24tph timetable test

Presumably that removes any residual expectation of a 6 March opening.

 

[ijmad]

Presumably that removes any residual expectation of a 6 March opening.

They don't need 24tph to open the core on 6th March. Could be a weekend closure?

 

[PG]

Presumably that removes any residual expectation of a 6 March opening.

They don't need 24tph to open the core on 6th March. Could be a weekend closure?

MTR staff and families have been invited to volunteer for Trial Ops testing.

Well isn't the point of testing to, err... test if things work as expected? So surely you'd want to analyse the data from the testing before you comit to opening on a specific date?

 

[gsnedders]

They don't need 24tph to open the core on 6th March. Could be a weekend closure?

They don't, no, but they won't want to be doing closures just after opening, as that'll be even worse PR than opening towards the end of the window previously announced.

 

[Snow1964]

Well isn't the point of testing to, err... test if things work as expected? So surely you'd want to analyse the data from the testing before you comit to opening on a specific date?

Committing to a date is unlikely, but if test goes well (I won’t say passed, as unlikely to be a pass mark), then can quietly turn a shadow service into a real service by unlocking the doors/barriers and letting public in, then just saying it’s open.

 

[reddragon]

Presumably that removes any residual expectation of a 6 March opening.

13th is a Sunday and they could still open on 6th weekdays only!

 

[Skie]

Let me explain for you!

Crossrail was split into areas, this one was SE London. Deliverables were split into teams, stations, tracks, OLE etc. I met scoping teams early on, design teams, delivery teams, construction teams etc. Each time there were new people, it was like starting from scratch each time, no information was passed over to them.

Does sound very familiar to working with large consultancy firms. They deploy staff to one project whilst bidding for another and tout the experience of their team working with you, so when they win that second bid the staff who have now gained a little bit of experience with your project are all moved on to the new one and you get the fresh faced graduates again to get experience before being cycled to another project. Repeat ad-infinitum and you’ve probably had a few complete changes of personnel in a year, which makes knowledge retention almost impossible.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Does sound very familiar to working with large consultancy firms. They deploy staff to one project whilst bidding for another and tout the experience of their team working with you, so when they win that second bid the staff who have now gained a little bit of experience with your project are all moved on to the new one and you get the fresh faced graduates again to get experience before being cycled to another project. Repeat ad-infinitum and you’ve probably had a few complete changes of personnel in a year, which makes knowledge retention almost impossible.

That sounds plausible but I also reckon there could be just plain old staff turnover. I have seen enough in non-railway areas to see that technical knowledge and experience can be woefully undervalued. That means no desire to pay enough to keep staff in certain technical areas.

 

[Skie]

That sounds plausible but I also reckon there could be just plain old staff turnover. I have seen enough in non-railway areas to see that technical knowledge and experience can be woefully undervalued. That means no desire to pay enough to keep staff in certain technical areas.

Oh that is totally something that happens too. No desire or ability to pay someone to stay so of course they take a better offer elsewhere. Always inevitable with cost constraints. But compounded by the intentional rotating of staff to keep the firms yearly intake productive even if it means the project is harmed.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Oh that is totally something that happens too. No desire or ability to pay someone to stay so of course they take a better offer elsewhere. Always inevitable with cost constraints. But compounded by the intentional rotating of staff to keep the firms yearly intake productive even if it means the project is harmed.

I suppose some turnover will be staff moving on to more permanent jobs because the project based work will not last for ever.

 

[reddragon]

The latest news on opening dates - 26th June 2022 is the latest given date assumed, with a May preferred option in place!

Crossrail cost confidence voiced by TfL boss as opening dates discussed | New Civil Engineer

Following the initial lockdown and subsequent Covid-19 shut down, Crossrail Ltd announced that it would miss its revised summer 2021 opening date and that

www.newcivilengineer.com

TfL chief financial officer Simon Kilonback told the London Assembly Budget and Performance Committee that from a budgeting perspective, a date of 26 June has been identified for the opening of the central section of the line.

"As you know we've said the central tunnels section will open in the first half of 2022," he said. "Therefore from a prudent budgeting perspective we've assumed that the income starts to generate from the end of that period.

"It is linked to a railway period month that begins on 26 June. That's not our intent to open it at the end of June - we've said it will be within that first half of the year - but from a prudent budgeting perspective we've assumed 26 June as the opening date."

Crossrail Ltd has previously earmarked March 2022 as the earliest the central section of the Elizabeth line could open to passengers, with June 2022 recorded as the latest possible opening date. A third possible opening date of May 2022 is also included in Crossrail’s latest target opening scenarios. All three dates are within Crossrail’s previously declared opening window of the first half of 2022.

Project representative Jacobs recently has warned that pushing for a March opening date could cause delays to the full service being implemented later down the line.

Overall, TfL commissioner Andy Lord said "good progress is being made".

Trial operations, which started at the end of November, are now around 40% complete. Operational scenarios still to be undertaken include mass evacuations. These will be followed by a ghost running period to ensure reliability.

"That will take as long as it takes," Lord said. "Obviously we want to get it open. I can very confidently say first half of 2022 - it has not slipped. But no one will thank me if it's unreliable. We are not going to rush it. We will obsess about getting the reliability right and I will give the go ahead once I am certain we can open flawlessly."

 

[pacenotes]

Using that first half of the year to the extreme. I wouldn't be surprised if its the 31st of June at this rate.





Get it 31st?

 

[Taunton]

Using that first half of the year to the extreme. I wouldn't be surprised if its the 31st of June at this rate.

The trouble is that once someone says "first half", others take their foot off the throttle, because as long as they are somehow compliant, that's felt to be OK then. It's a real downside of quoting ranges, which I always find rather sloppy.

Why don't we say instead "nearly three years late".

 

[AM9]

The trouble is that once someone says "first half", others take their foot off the throttle, because as long as they are somehow compliant, that's felt to be OK then. It's a real downside of quoting ranges, which I always find rather sloppy.

Why don't we say instead "nearly three years late".

Because that doesn't change anything either.

 

[reddragon]

Why don't we say instead "nearly three years late".

December 2018 + 3 years = December 2021, so "over 3 years late"

 

[Taunton]

Because that doesn't change anything either.

Well actually it does. It stops credit being taken for "coming in on schedule", which will happen if we are not careful. Even by some (mentioning no names, Mr Mayor) who were around at the time and openly being proud of "opening December 2018" just a few months before that date.

 

[matt_world2004]

On Saturday the 29th January there is an exercise requiring volunteers. Testing a response to an incident at the interface between the GWML and the crossrail core.

Participants in the exercise will be network rail ,London Underground , MTREL and I believe some rail for London staff too.

Volunteers are required to have their own ppe listed as orange hivi and safety boots

It will last four hours and breakfast would be provided.

I'm speculating that it is an evacuation exercise in Westbourne Park siding.

 

[AM9]

Well actually it does. It stops credit being taken for "coming in on schedule", which will happen if we are not careful. Even by some (mentioning no names, Mr Mayor) who were around at the time and openly being proud of "opening December 2018" just a few months before that date.

Blaming all or parts of the organisation for the delay might interest some (as long as they aren't the target of the exercise, but is doesn't actually improve the deliverables' arrivals.

 

[Horizon22]

Using that first half of the year to the extreme. I wouldn't be surprised if its the 31st of June at this rate.





Get it 31st?

A classic railway rule is if something is listed as a range, its a sure fire bet it will happen at the end of that range! I've thought late May for a while but as we get closer it's going to look more like guesswork until an all singing all dancing press release.

 

[MotCO]

Using that first half of the year to the extreme. I wouldn't be surprised if its the 31st of June at this rate.





Get it 31st?

I think that the finance director is just being prudent. For budgeting purposes (or calculating the size of the begging bowl to TfL or the Government), a date has to be assumed, so why not make it the latest possible date.

To stress, this date is for budgeting purposes, and does not necessarily represent the date it will actually open (hopefully earlier!)

 

[kevin_roche]

If they say it often enough perhaps they think it will happen. The daily mail reports today and has a slightly different take on it.

First phase of troubled Crossrail scheme WILL open by June, bosses say - up to 1,200 days late and £4billion over budget​

The often-delayed and hugely expensive Crossrail scheme will finally open by June - three-and-a-half years late and £4billion over budget.

Her Royal Highness The Queen had been supposed to open the Elizabeth Line on December 9, 2018.

But 1,299 days later it will have finally flung open its doors, with Transport for London signalling it will be done by the end of June at the latest.

Londoners will then be able to take the Elizabeth line between Paddington and Abbey Wood.

The track is still in the trial stage, to ensure the safety and reliability of the railway for public use and to test the timetables.

It had been set a budget of £14.8 billion in 2010 and was initially due to be completed by the end of 2018, but it was hit by a number of problems including construction delays and difficulties installing complex signalling systems.

 

[fat_boy_pete]

If they say it often enough perhaps they think it will happen. The daily mail reports today and has a slightly different take on it.

First phase of troubled Crossrail scheme WILL open by June, bosses say - up to 1,200 days late and £4billion over budget​

Or the official version

Welcome to Crossrail

Crossrail Ltd has delivered the Elizabeth line - a new railway for London and the South East, running from Reading and Heathrow in the west, through 42km of new tunnels under London to Shenfield and Abbey Wood in the east. The Elizabeth line has 41 accessible stations including 10 major new...

www.crossrail.co.uk

This will be a milestone year for Londoners with the Elizabeth line set to open in the first half of the year. Transport for London (TfL) is coming to the end of the first phase of its Trial Operations ahead of starting the next phase including large-scale exercises across the new railway – a crucial step ahead of the Elizabeth line opening...

 

[AlbertBeale]

If they say it often enough perhaps they think it will happen. The daily mail reports today and has a slightly different take on it.

First phase of troubled Crossrail scheme WILL open by June, bosses say - up to 1,200 days late and £4billion over budget​

The often-delayed and hugely expensive Crossrail scheme will finally open by June - three-and-a-half years late and £4billion over budget.
Her Royal Highness The Queen had been supposed to open the Elizabeth Line on December 9, 2018.
But 1,299 days later it will have finally flung open its doors, with Transport for London signalling it will be done by the end of June at the latest.

Blimey - if that's a real quote from the Daily Mail, whatever is happening to standards (harumph). If even they think the Queen is called "Her Royal Highness"!?!