D For Diesel Tape (1965)

[Strathclyder]

Mods/admins, please move this to the correct part of the forum if this is in the wrong section.

Stumbled across this during my usual YouTube trawls and thought it was of sufficent interest to share. It's a compliation of various 1st-gen diesel locos & at least two DMUs (mostly Class 40s) at work across the network between 1958 & 1964. Of particular note is the former LMS Ivatt Twins (10000/10001) powering away from a adverse signal at Greenholme while working the 'down' Royal Scot in August 1958.

This is an Argo Transacord EAF mono recording directed by Peter Handford (uploaded to YT by Bob Gellatly), so the audio quality isn't worth shouting home about, but is a fascinating historical piece regardless. Gold dust for this diesel nut to boot.

 

[Ash Bridge]

I’ve had the original vinyl EP disc version of this for many years, actually the recording quality is pretty decent for its time and Peter Handford was a very respected recording engineer back in the day having I believe worked on many a British movie sound track during the 1950s/60s.

 

[Cowley]

I’ve had the original vinyl EP disc version of this for many years, actually the recording quality is pretty decent for its time and Peter Handford was a very respected recording engineer back in the day having I believe worked on many a British movie sound track during the 1950s/60s.

Is that the one with the clips of the LMS twins that you sent me a few years ago Mr Bridge?

 

[Strathclyder]

I’ve had the original vinyl EP disc version of this for many years, actually the recording quality is pretty decent for its time and Peter Handford was a very respected recording engineer back in the day having I believe worked on many a British movie sound track during the 1950s/60s.

Ah I see. Possibly just that the copy in the OP video has seen better days. Like I say, it's historical significance far outweighs any quibbles I have over the audio quality. The Ivatt Twins are far and away the main highlight for me here, it's actually the first recording I've ever heard of them at work.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Is that the one with the clips of the LMS twins that you sent me a few years ago Mr Bridge?

Ah, forgot about that but yes it would be.

Ah I see. Possibly just that the copy in the OP video has seen better days. Like I say, it's historical significance far outweighs any quibbles I have over the audio quality. The Ivatt Twins are far and away the main highlight for me here, it's actually the first recording I've ever heard of them at work.

Actually I’m just wondering now if this could be the only existing audio recording made of the Ivatt’s in action back in the day?

 

[Strathclyder]

Actually I’m just wondering now if this could be the only existing audio recording made of the Ivatt’s in action back in the day?

If it's not the only one, then it's one of the very, very few that exist. The only thing that would be rarer would be a recording of one of the Bulleid Trio (Class D16/2), although I think you'd be a bit hard-pressed telling them apart from a Class 40 (similar EE traction motors and Napier turbocharger in both types iirc).

 

[Big Jumby 74]

I’ve had the original vinyl EP disc version of this for many years, actually the recording quality is pretty decent for its time and Peter Handford was a very respected recording engineer back in the day having I believe worked on many a British movie sound track during the 1950s/60s.

That name just rang a bell with me. He also produced a number of steam recordings (12" vinyl) on the ARGO label, eg: Somerset & Dorset between Bath and Evercreech and one of Pacific's in general, which included UK, French and DB loco's, and no doubt others that I don't have.

 

[Ash Bridge]

If it's not the only one, then it's one of the very, very few that exist. The only thing that would be rarer would be a recording of one of the Bulleid Trio (Class D16/2), although I think you'd be a bit hard-pressed telling them apart from a Class 40 (similar EE traction motors and Napier turbocharger in both types iirc).

I always wondered about the sound produced by the SR Bulleid trio especially so 10203 with its engine set at 2000bhp as per the 40s, even the LMS twins on the Argo recording don’t sound too dissimilar in a casual listen to what 40s or 50s on the climb to Shap sounded like. If I’m recalling correctly; and hopefully Mr Cowley dosen’t mind me mentioning this, but a few years ago I think he said his dad witnessed both types in action during the 1960s though unfortunately I can’t recall now how he described the way they actually sounded?

That name just rang a bell with me. He also produced a number of steam recordings (12" vinyl) on the ARGO label, eg: Somerset & Dorset between Bath and Evercreech and one of Pacific's in general, which included UK, French and DB loco's, and no doubt others that I don't have.

Yes, quite a sizeable library of railway location sound material credited to him. This thread prompted me to research him a little and apparently after a long career in cinema sound he was dragged out of retirement during the mid 1980s to work on the soundtrack of the Sidney Pollack movie Out of Africa - starring Robert Redford & Meryl Streep, seems he was very highly respected in his field!

 

[ac6000cw]

I've never come across a recording of 10000/10001 before either - thanks for posting

Peter Handford's railway recordings on vinyl are quite well known (or were years ago), but I've never owned any myself.

 

[Cowley]

I always wondered about the sound produced by the SR Bulleid trio especially so 10203 with its engine set at 2000bhp as per the 40s, even the LMS twins on the Argo recording don’t sound too dissimilar in a casual listen to what 40s or 50s on the climb to Shap sounded like. If I’m recalling correctly; and hopefully Mr Cowley dosen’t mind me mentioning this, but a few years ago I think he said his dad witnessed both types in action during the 1960s though unfortunately I can’t recall now how he described the way they actually sounded?

I don’t mind at all.

I seem to remember him saying that they sounded very similar to the class 40s (or EE type 4s as he’d have known them).

 

[robert thomas]

I always wondered about the sound produced by the SR Bulleid trio especially so 10203 with its engine set at 2000bhp as per the 40s, even the LMS twins on the Argo recording don’t sound too dissimilar in a casual listen to what 40s or 50s on the climb to Shap sounded like. If I’m recalling correctly; and hopefully Mr Cowley dosen’t mind me mentioning this, but a few years ago I think he said his dad witnessed both types in action during the 1960s though unfortunately I can’t recall now how he described the way they actually sounded?

Yes, quite a sizeable library of railway location sound material credited to him. This thread prompted me to research him a little and apparently after a long career in cinema sound he was dragged out of retirement during the mid 1980s to work on the soundtrack of the Sidney Pollack movie Out of Africa - starring Robert Redford & Meryl Streep, seems he was very highly respected in his field!

I believe he won an Oscar and a Bafta for Out of Africa

 

[Strathclyder]

I always wondered about the sound produced by the SR Bulleid trio especially so 10203 with its engine set at 2000bhp as per the 40s, even the LMS twins on the Argo recording don’t sound too dissimilar in a casual listen to what 40s or 50s on the climb to Shap sounded like. If I’m recalling correctly; and hopefully Mr Cowley dosen’t mind me mentioning this, but a few years ago I think he said his dad witnessed both types in action during the 1960s though unfortunately I can’t recall now how he described the way they actually sounded?

As have I, but as you say, the same basic engine (the English Electric 16SVT) was used in all of them (plus DP2) in various forms and power outputs, so it doesn't surprise me that they all sounded rather similar if you weren't listening all that closely. The Bulleid Trio (especially 10203) and the 40s had/have the most distinctive sound-set out of all of them imho.

Tangentally, this engine was later updated one final time by Ruston-Paxman for use in the Class 56 as the 16RK3CT, which is primarily why you get that English Electric-esque 'thudding' from 56s under power, mixed in with the screaming Napier turbocharger.

 

[Ash Bridge]

I don’t mind at all.

I seem to remember him saying that they sounded very similar to the class 40s (or EE type 4s as he’d have known them).

That I reckon would seem to be a quite accurate description then Mr C.

I believe he won an Oscar and a Bafta for Out of Africa

I hadn’t spotted that, so yet another achievement to add to his many other credits then - Thanks!

As have I, but as you The same basic engine (the English Electric 16SVT) was used in all of them (plus DP2) in various forms and power outputs, so it doesn't surprise me that they all sounded rather similar if you weren't listening all that closely. The Bulleid Trio (especially 10203) and the 40s had/have the most distinctive sound-set out of all of them imho.

Tangentally, this engine was later updated one final time by Ruston-Paxman for use in the Class 56 as the 16RK3CT, which is primarily why you get that English Electric-esque 'thudding' from 56s under power, mixed in with the screaming Napier turbocharger.

Yes, that thudding sound is even there to a degree when the 56 engine is only on tick over, I noticed this recently when one passed by here slowly whilst running light engine, incredible sound when running at full chat though! To me they sound like a proper grownup version of a Valenta powered HST set i.e. similar scream but with an added full on bass accompaniment

 

[Big Jumby 74]

incredible sound when running at full chat though!

I know this is in danger of veering OT slightly, but with regard 56's , yes I agree. In the days when they were relatively new I quite frequently passed through Retford and standing on the footbridge at Low level watching them pass through on MGR trains was quite something...

 

[Spamcan81]

Peter Handford's autobiography is a fascinating read. Especially the attempt to do WW2 battlefield recordings from inside a tank.

 

[Strathclyder]

Yes, that thudding sound is even there to a degree when the 56 engine is only on tick over, I noticed this recently when one passed by here slowly whilst running light engine, incredible sound when running at full chat though! To me they sound like a proper grownup version of a Valenta powered HST set i.e. similar scream but with an added full on bass accompaniment

Yes, the 56s sound incredible at full power, fits their design brief to a tee.

I know this is in danger of veering OT slightly, but with regard 56's , yes I agree. In the days when they were relatively new I quite frequently passed through Retford and standing on the footbridge at Low level watching them pass through on MGR trains was quite something...

56s are among my favourite diesel classes, so I don't personally mind this veering OT for them, as they are (rather distantly!) related to the Ivatt Twins in terms of the powerplant history/throughline. As you say, the sound of one at full power is something else, right up there with a pair/trio of 37s at full power, a Deltic at full cry, a 40 powering away from rest, a Western at full cry, a pair of 20s at full power and a Thumper/Hastings unit pulling away from a station for me when it comes to diesel power.

 

[Ash Bridge]

I know this is in danger of veering OT slightly, but with regard 56's , yes I agree. In the days when they were relatively new I quite frequently passed through Retford and standing on the footbridge at Low level watching them pass through on MGR trains was quite something...

This is a similar story to mine, only difference being that my first experiences of the 56s was of them passing close by our house alongside the Stockport - Guide Bridge line whilst employed on MGR workings to Fiddlers Ferry Power Station, they were ear splitting when climbing the bank up from Heaton Norris and that was only on the empties returning to Yorkshire!

Yes, the 56s sound incredible at full power, fits their design brief to a tee.

56s are among my favourite diesel classes, so I don't personally mind this veering OT for them, as they are (rather distantly!) related to the Ivatt Twins in terms of the powerplant history/throughline. As you say, the sound of one at full power is something else, right up there with a pair of 37s at full power, a Deltic at full cry and a 40 powering away from rest for me when it comes to diesel power.

That list totally aligns with my opinions except for one omission, (And yes I realise I’m a Northerner born & bred) but I seriously think the 52s definitely have a right to be included?

 

[Cowley]

@Ash Bridge is also an honorary West Country man by the way.

 

[Ash Bridge]

@Ash Bridge is also an honorary West Country man by the way.

Much appreciated Mr. C

 

[Strathclyder]

That list totally aligns with my opinions except for one omission, (And yes I realise I’m a Northerner born & bred) but I seriously think the 52s definitely have a right to be included?

@Ash Bridge is also an honorary West Country man by the way.

An egregious omission on my part (especially since I'm a Western fan myself despite being a born-and-bred Scotsman), will go back and correct it.

 

[Ash Bridge]

An egregious omission on my part (especially since I'm a Western fan myself despite being a born-and-bred Scotsman), will go back and correct it.

No worries @Strathclyder, and all is forgiven!

 

[Benters]

Yes, the 56s sound incredible at full power, fits their design brief to a tee.

56s are among my favourite diesel classes, so I don't personally mind this veering OT for them, as they are (rather distantly!) related to the Ivatt Twins in terms of the powerplant history/throughline. As you say, the sound of one at full power is something else, right up there with a pair of 37s at full power, a Deltic at full cry, a 40 powering away from rest and a Western at full cry for me when it comes to diesel power.

I remember seeing a video of a 56 on You Tube on a railtour, climbing the Lickey Incline IIRC. It was filmed from the lead coach and some wag had put in the comments section that it sounded like the Hawkwind song 'Silver Machine'.
Indeed, the low-end rumble of the engine under load, coupled with the screaming turbocharger did sound a lot like the space-rock classic.

 

[ac6000cw]

I've never really thought the cl. 40 and the cl. 56 sound that much alike to be honest - the 56 sound is much more 'bassy' with a less pronounced 'bark' to me.

But most of the big 4-stroke V16s seem to share the same 'beat' - e.g. 'jackmp294.5' added this video yesterday, with some lovely Alco 251 V16 sound (the locos are Alco C430 and MLW C630M/M630/M636s as far as I can work out):

...and the Chinese HXN5 GE V16 'EVO' engined locos are almost in a 'rolling thunder' league of their own...(Try the 'qj7205' channel on YouTube)

 

[Strathclyder]

I've never really thought the cl. 40 and the cl. 56 sound that much alike to be honest - the 56 sound is much more 'bassy' with a less pronounced 'bark' to me.

True enough. The 56 sound is almost unique amongst British mainline diesel designs, it's far more bassy and with less of a 'bark' than it's 'pure' EE step-cousins, more than likely as a result of the reworking Ruston-Paxman put the design through. It's those aural properties, combined with the Napier turbocharger, that make 56s such a aural tour-de-force.

For pure 56 sound, there are few better places than YT's Hughesy (formerly New Gold Dreamer), who has a 7-part series consisting of nothing but Grids at full power. Here is Part 1:

But most of the big 4-stroke V16s seem to share the same 'beat' - e.g. 'jackmp294.5' added this video yesterday, with some lovely Alco 251 V16 sound (the locos are Alco C430 and MLW C630M/M630/M636s as far as I can work out):

Nothing like that Alco chant (and clouds of black smoke!) to stir the soul. The Alco Century family is a fascinating last gasp in Alco's mainline loco history.

...and the Chinese HXN5 GE V16 'EVO' engined locos are almost in a 'rolling thunder' league of their own...(Try the 'qj7205' channel on YouTube)

Are these the loudest modern diesel loco? I'd certainly say so!

 

[ac6000cw]

Are these the loudest modern diesel loco? I'd certainly say so!

Possibly

Interestingly, the WNY&P railroad featured in the Alco video has supplanted the Alcos with eight ex-CSX, ex-Progress Rail AC6000CW's re-engined (years ago) with V16 EVOs. Nice to know at least a few of my namesake locos are still earning their keep!

 

[Strathclyder]

Possibly

Interestingly, the WNY&P railroad featured in the Alco video has supplanted the Alcos with eight ex-CSX, ex-Progress Rail AC6000CW's re-engined (years ago) with V16 EVOs. Nice to know at least a few of my namesake locos are still earning their keep!

As noisy as the 68s are, the HXN5s knock them into a cocked hat in terms of noise levels!