DB: Super Sparpreis Europa - local legs not restricted to particular train?

[BRX]

Can anyone clarify what the rules are with a Super Sparpreis Europa ticket - are they essentially the same as for Super Sparpreis, here -

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I am looking at a journey with multiple legs, starting in the Netherlands (sequence of RE & Dutch IC trains) then a couple of DB RE & S-bahn, then the DB IC, then another RE at the end.

Basically it's the German IC train that is the one I have to travel on, is that right? The RE and S bahn ones, I just have to stick to the defined route?

Does anyone know if I am also restricted to the specific IC trains in the Netherlands or can I take earlier/later ones too, on the same route?

 

[Bletchleyite]

What's in the Ueber/Via field on the ticket? That dictates what you have to do. You can paste it here if you like.

 

[BRX]

What's in the Ueber/Via field on the ticket? That dictates what you have to do. You can paste it here if you like.

Don't know yet because I haven't actually bought it yet!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I did Regensburg-Rotterdam on just such a ticket (Super Sparpreis EU) in 2019, and it worked fine.
Regensburg-Frankfurt-Koblenz-Köln on IC;
Köln-Mönchengladbach-Venlo-Eindhoven-Rotterdam on local trains (RE/ERB trains in DE, IC in NL).
No problems at all, even though I stopped off for an hour in Köln and picked up later local trains than on the itinerary on the ticket.
In fact the DB ticket was Vienna-Rotterdam with an overnight break in Regensburg.
The ticket coding said K-Hbf*NV*Venlo(Gr)
I even got 50% of the ticket cost refunded following a 3-hour delay in Austria (route power failure), even though the majority of the journey was unaffected.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Interesting. Normally if there's no train specified in the Via then there's no train restriction at all. Perhaps this has changed, but DB have done it like this for ages, seat reservations are entirely separate and optional.

With a train restriction I'd have expected to see something like VIA: IC1234*K-Hbf*NV*Venlo(Gr) where IC1234 is the specified train. NV means Nahverkehr i.e. local trains.

 

[DanielB]

Does anyone know if I am also restricted to the specific IC trains in the Netherlands or can I take earlier/later ones too, on the same route?

There are no restrictions in the Netherlands at all. You'll get a code with NV on the ticket just as @LNW-GW Joint just posted which indicates that you're using local trains (nahverkehr) on that part of the route and you're not tied to any specific train.

For the Dutch part, there's likely to be no mention of allowed routes at all. On a trip I made in 2019 it just mentioned I had to arrive in the border station of Arnhem with a specific ICE, but no mention of trains after that at all.
That looked like this on the ticket (which was to Amersfoort): VIA <1080>(10.10.2019)Wue-Hbf 17:55 ICE620/F-Hbf 19:29 ICE120*Emmerich(Gr)<1184>ICE*Arnhem Centraal

Even when you've booked a ticket using the IC Amsterdam - Berlin within the Netherlands, the ticket will only specify you have to use the booked train to cross the border between Hengelo and Bad Bentheim but you're completely free in how to get to Hengelo.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Interesting. Normally if there's no train specified in the Via then there's no train restriction at all. Perhaps this has changed, but DB have done it like this for ages, seat reservations are entirely separate and optional.

With a train restriction I'd have expected to see something like VIA: IC1234*K-Hbf*NV*Venlo(Gr) where IC1234 is the specified train. NV means Nahverkehr i.e. local trains.

Yes I just quoted the end bit of the coding - before that it said IC2024, for the Regensburg-K-Hbf leg.
The "Venlo Gr" bit I assume would prevent you going via Emmerich/Utrecht, or any other NL border crossing, to Rotterdam.

 

[BRX]

Here's what it says on my ticket (starting from Schiedam Centrum)

VIA: <1184>Arnhem Centraal*Regional Train*Emmerich(Gr)<1080>EMM*(03.08.2023)NV*(04.08.2023)DO-Hbf 9:29 IC1892/B-Ostbf

 

[DanielB]

In that case you need to take the RE19 across the border, but any route in the Netherlands is allowed (though you may encounter a confused conductor when doing Schiedam - Arnhem via Amsterdam Zuid).
The same in Germany: no route specified apart from the IC1892 to Berlin.

 

[BRX]

In that case you need to take the RE19 across the border, but any route in the Netherlands is allowed (though you may encounter a confused conductor when doing Schiedam - Arnhem via Amsterdam Zuid).
The same in Germany: no route specified apart from the IC1892 to Berlin.

Thanks.

"Any route" presumably means any "reasonable" route?

The ticket (and the itinerary) includes an overnight stop which I plan to do somewhere just after Emmerich. Am I allowed to make the overnight stop anywhere between Schiedam and Dortmund (where I get on IC1892)? Or does it have to be made after Emmerich? (Would be useful to know, just in case of ferry delays etc)

 

[dutchflyer]

Right now I sit in an NS-IC to Utrecht, just coming off the RE19/VIAS from Emmerich-that part on my Deutschlandticket. As so many regular travellers now hold that ticket valid on all local/regional transit anywhere in DE, for them it has become a non-issue. Going into DE this morning the VIAS was horrendous overcrowded by what looked like junior passholders being thrown off the ICE.
But to this topic: yes, choice of R/RE trains is free.
BUT somehow since a year-or 2- the ICE through running into NL and BE-for those holding (super)SparPreisTickets all the way the ´Zugbindung´=prescribed train holds for the whole sector in ICE, also the other way coming from these 2 countries. Or at least that is what I recall having read somewhere-on my most trusted source, the german DSO forum.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Here's what it says on my ticket (starting from Schiedam Centrum)
VIA: <1184>Arnhem Centraal*Regional Train*Emmerich(Gr)<1080>EMM*(03.08.2023)NV*(04.08.2023)DO-Hbf 9:29 IC1892/B-Ostbf

I'd say that allows you to take any train from Schiedam via Arnhem and Emmerich to Dortmund, and then the specified IC train to Berlin.

 

[BRX]

Another one:

Salzburg - Schiedam Centrum Via: <1080>M*(A*S/N*WUE*F)*LM*K*MG*KALD*Venlo<1184>

This specifies two ICE trains: Munich-Mannheim and Mannheim-Koln.

I think that means I can take any (local) train from Koln to Schiedam as long as it goes via Venlo, is that right? Not sure what all those other letters mean.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There are no trains specified in that. Each code represents a via station, though other than M being Muenchen I couldn't tell you what they were off the top of my head.

At a guess and looking at a map I think it is:

Via:
Muenchen
Either Augsburg and Stuttgart, or Nuernberg, Wuerzburg and Frankfurt
Limburg (I think)
Koeln
Moenchengladbach
Kaldenkirchen
Venlo

What type of ticket is it?

 

[BRX]

Sorry, to clarify, the two ICE trains are specified on the ticket, below that route coding that I've copied & pasted above.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sorry, to clarify, the two ICE trains are specified on the ticket, below that route coding that I've copied & pasted above.

That's unusual. Normally any mandatory trains are specified in the VIA line. A VIA like that I'd expect to see on a "Normalpreis" flexible ticket.

What is the ticket exactly?

 

[BRX]

It's another Super Sparpreis Europa.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's another Super Sparpreis Europa.

Very odd indeed. Probably best sticking to those booked trains, but technically it doesn't appear they're actually mandatory unless they've changed how they format the VIA line.

 

[rvdborgt]

It's another Super Sparpreis Europa.

Looks like a new layout then. My most recent Supersparpreis has the classic:
VIA: <1088><1080,1185>(05.02.2022)Lieg-Gu 7:12 ICE11/K-Hbf 8:54
ICE103/BaselDB*BaslSBB 12:56 IC971/Bern 14:07 IC818/Brig
Or the other direction:
VIA: <1185><1080>(13.02.2022)Brig 9:48 IC815/Bern 11:04 ICE278/KA-Hbf
*(LD/MA*NW*KL)*SB*Igel(Gr)<1182>Luxembourg*Arlon<1088>
You can see here that the typical DB Raumbegrenzung is only used outside the booked trains.

 

[BRX]

It's laid out like this. It does say "zugbindung" for those two trains so I don't think there's any option to deviate.

Bought it on the "next bahn" or something like that new version of the DB website, may be relevant?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thanks. It does indeed look like they have changed the format, which I guess has the benefit of making it easier to read!

 

[rvdborgt]

Thanks. It does indeed look like they have changed the format, which I guess has the benefit of making it easier to read!

Yes indeed. It also seems they've changed from the standard CIT format for international tickets to the format they use for domestic tickets.

 

[DanielB]

Always lets me laugh that DB mentions a Dutch Sprinter as "RE" like on @BRX 's ticket. Most Sprinters stop at every tree, thus are more like an RB instead.

 

[rvdborgt]

Always lets me laugh that DB mentions a Dutch Sprinter as "RE" like on @BRX 's ticket. Most Sprinters stop at every tree, thus are more like an RB instead.

They have more strange train category mappings...