Definition of next available service

[JBuchananGB]

My daughter has decided to use the train to visit after Christmas, and I have sent her the e-tickets for the trip from Leeds to Southport. I bought them using the forum's ticket site.
Trip is on 28 December. Dep Leeds 10.43 arrive Manchester Vic. 1201. Dep MCV 12.09, arrive Southport 13.25. Tickets are Advance Northern Only for the specific trains splitting at MCV.
I see from recent examples that it is not uncommon for the 12.01 arrival from Leeds to occur after the 12.09 to Southport has departed, or so late as to make the connection difficult. Today for example it arrived at 12.06, but the 12.09 was only 1 minute late at 12.10. The change is from platform 3 to platform 5.
I have proposed the following back up plan. Dep MCV 12.15 to Salford Crescent (Blackburn train) arr 12.24. Then dep SLD 12.38 to Southport.
In these circumstances, is the Northern Advance, which is specific to the 12.09 departure, valid on both the 12:15 from MCV and the 12.38 from SLD?

 

[Watershed]

My daughter has decided to use the train to visit after Christmas, and I have sent her the e-tickets for the trip from Leeds to Southport. I bought them using the forum's ticket site.
Trip is on 28 December. Dep Leeds 10.43 arrive Manchester Vic. 1201. Dep MCV 12.09, arrive Southport 13.25. Tickets are Advance Northern Only for the specific trains splitting at MCV.
I see from recent examples that it is not uncommon for the 12.01 arrival from Leeds to occur after the 12.09 to Southport has departed, or so late as to make the connection difficult. Today for example it arrived at 12.06, but the 12.09 was only 1 minute late at 12.10. The change is from platform 3 to platform 5.
I have proposed the following back up plan. Dep MCV 12.15 to Salford Crescent (Blackburn train) arr 12.24. Then dep SLD 12.38 to Southport.
In these circumstances, is the Northern Advance, which is specific to the 12.09 departure, valid on both the 12:15 from MCV and the 12.38 from SLD?

Yes, as this is the next available journey opportunity that sticks to Northern. That being said, I don't think anyone could really say anything if she waited until the next direct train instead - but her Delay Repay entitlement would still be based on the next available journey.

 

[gray1404]

I would say it is because you (or your daughter) is taking the next available Northern trains to complete the journey. You are sticking to your route/TOX restrictions on the ticket and there is no need to wait for the next direct service when alternatives exist.

 

[yorkie]

In the case of a train being cancelled, you may take the next available service; if turning up in good time before departure, that could reasonably be on a service that departs before the originally booked departure time.

Next available doesn't necessarily mean it has to be after the originally booked departure time.

What has been said above by @Watershed, @gray1404 and myself is not universally agreed, but is what most people I speak to would agree is a reasonable interpretation; it has been debated numerous times before, including here:

No access to platform until 20 min before departure

I doubt there’s any need. Only on here would “next available” be interpreted to mean a train that could be hours earlier! I had more in mind that the OP should be able to take the next train that appears after the scheduled time of departure of their booking perhaps we are talikng at cross...

www.railforums.co.uk

Compelling advice came from @bakerstreet :

Was not going to join this, but for info.

Just at Euston. The 1653 Avanti to Manchester has been cancelled. Auto announcement just said something like (my bold)

“Passengers for Milton Keynes Central, your next direct Avanti West Coast service to is now expected to be the 1643 Liverpool Lime Street service from platform 1.“

Make of that what you will.

I was booked on the 2205 from King's Cross the other day, which - when I looked - was advertised as terminating short at Doncaster. LNER made it very clear that earlier trains were permitted (indeed they helpfully allowed trains up to 2 hours earlier; however, I would never assume validity on anything other than the train immediately prior to the booked service, without authorisation)

 

[gray1404]

You're daughter would be best getting to Southport as soon as possible as waiting for the next direct service does not mean a 60 minute delay repay payout necessarily due to the padding that Northern add to the timetable between Meols Cop and Southport.

 

[JBuchananGB]

Thank you everyone for the advice. On journey times to Southport, it’s not just the padding at Meols Cop. One train every 2 hours takes 5 minutes longer, due to calling at Hoscar, Bescar Lane and one other chicken coop. The 1209 ex MCV is one such service.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Minimum connection time at Manchester Victoria is five minutes, but a cross platform transfer from platform 3 over to the island platform 5 can take a surprisingly long time at certain times of the day when the station overbridge is busy.

 

[JBuchananGB]

I'm sure it will be ok. Today both trains were on time, but I am reassured about the ticket validity on the contingency plan. With the hourly Northern from Leeds coming in just 8 minutes before the hourly service to Southport departs, the Northern only advance fares are eminently suitable. What would be the point of taking TPE from Leeds at 10.45, arriving MCV 11.36, when then you have to wait for the 12.09 anyway?

 

[JBuchananGB]

Update. Plan B was required. Train from Leeds arrived 2 minutes after departure of train to Southport. Passengers boarded 1215 service destination Blackburn, changed at Salford Crescent onto 1238 to Southport. Overall journey delay 17 minutes.

 

[gray1404]

Don't forget to claim delay repay too.

 

[JBuchananGB]

I have put in the claim for the 17 minute delay. £4.80. It will be interesting to see if they just pay that or recalculate based on waiting at Manchester for the next direct service, which would have been a 66 minute delay.

 

[gray1404]

I have put in the claim for the 17 minute delay. £4.80. It will be interesting to see if they just pay that or recalculate based on waiting at Manchester for the next direct service, which would have been a 66 minute delay.

Does their form require you to state the length of the delay. I hope they pay out on the basis of both tickets though.

If they do happen to pay out on a 66 minute delay then I assume it will be a "cash" payout rather then free tickets.

 

[Western Sunset]

My daughter has just put in a delay repay claim for a journey from Branksome to Clapham Jn.

The through train she intended to take was cancelled. Branksome has a half-hourly service, but only alternate ones call at Clapham. So she let the next train go and caught the following through one; a delay of over an hour.

Whether SWR will say she should've caught the service that didn't call at Clapham and change en-route, time will tell. The ticket office wasn't open so she couldn't ask anyone where to change.

 

[JBuchananGB]

Does their form require you to state the length of the delay.

Northern does ask for the length of the delay. I submitted one claim with two PDF files, one for each passenger. Each PDF file contained two e-Tickets issued by this forum's ticketing site. Only one booking reference.