Delay Repay on Non Strike Days

[Chrisgr31]

it’s an interesting point. It was issued on 4th February valid from the 7th February.

The other point is why do they refund some tickets and not others. Surely they should also not refund tickets on strike days. After all the Timetable of the Day is no trains!

picked up a copy of the NRCoT at the station this morning - 1st person to ask in 7 years!

3rd edit - one point I do note is that the Rail Ombudsman states clearly that GTR are the rail service provider.

 

[Chrisgr31]

The Rail Ombudsman is saying that as they have closed the complaint I can’t comment on the fact that GTR have only just raised the NRCoT. I suspected that would be the case so have already raised a complaint with Southern about that. I will also raise a complaint about the Rail Ombudsmans handling of the complaint as for reasons mentioned earlier in the thread a blanket acceptance of the NRCoT does not seem reasonable.

Does anyone know when the current NRCoT applicable from 6th February were first published and do they apply to tickets when purchased or when valid from?

 

[Watershed]

The Rail Ombudsman is saying that as they have closed the complaint I can’t comment on the fact that GTR have only just raised the NRCoT. I suspected that would be the case so have already raised a complaint with Southern about that. I will also raise a complaint about the Rail Ombudsmans handling of the complaint as for reasons mentioned earlier in the thread a blanket acceptance of the NRCoT does not seem reasonable.

Does anyone know when the current NRCoT applicable from 6th February were first published and do they apply to tickets when purchased or when valid from?

They were 'leaked' on the forum on 27 January, but I can't say for sure when they were uploaded onto the NRE site. IIRC it was around 2 days before the conditions took effect.

Clearly, if the new conditions were not yet published at the point you bought your ticket, they cannot possibly be of relevance to your contract - there is no mechanism for customers to be informed of proposed variations to the contract.

So it's the conditions that were published at the time you bought your ticket that are relevant. So if you bought your season on 25 January, for instance, the mere discussion of the Published Timetable of the Day is academic - as the conditions containing that term were not published until after the contract was concluded.

 

[Chrisgr31]

They were 'leaked' on the forum on 27 January, but I can't say for sure when they were uploaded onto the NRE site. IIRC it was around 2 days before the conditions took effect.

Clearly, if the new conditions were not yet published at the point you bought your ticket, they cannot possibly be of relevance to your contract - there is no mechanism for customers to be informed of proposed variations to the contract.

So it's the conditions that were published at the time you bought your ticket that are relevant. So if you bought your season on 25 January, for instance, the mere discussion of the Published Timetable of the Day is academic - as the conditions containing that term were not published until after the contract was concluded.

Thanks. It also seems to me that if making a fundamental change to terms that affects compensation in such a way there should be a duty to highly publicise the changes which I dont believe happened

 

[Haywain]

Thanks. It also seems to me that if making a fundamental change to terms that affects compensation in such a way there should be a duty to highly publicise the changes which I dont believe happened

It didn't happen but just because you think it should doesn't mean there's any duty to do so. After all, nobody reads the terms and conditions and everybody agrees to abide by them.

 

[Watershed]

It didn't happen but just because you think it should doesn't mean there's any duty to do so. After all, nobody reads the terms and conditions and everybody agrees to abide by them.

There would certainly be an obligation to communicate the proposed variation, if the TOCs wanted to make changes to the NRCoT for already-bought tickets.

 

[Chrisgr31]

It didn't happen but just because you think it should doesn't mean there's any duty to do so. After all, nobody reads the terms and conditions and everybody agrees to abide by them.

The latter sent is true. I asked for a copy of NRCoT at my local station the other day. The first person to ask the guy behind the counter for them in the 7 years he has worked there.

Incidentally I am not sure I agree with the first sentence not that I can quote from legislation. I would be surprised if it is not a requirement to notify a change that impacts on compensation in the way it does. They heavily advertised the introduction of Delay Repay seems odd they didn’t do the reverse!

 

[Haywain]

There would certainly be an obligation to communicate the proposed variation, if the TOCs wanted to make changes to the NRCoT for already-bought tickets.

I absolutely agree. And, for what it’s worth, I feel the way the current version was introduced was rather shoddy.

 

[Magdalen Road]

GNR were tweeting last week that delay repay applied and told me to apply for it ( this is re the engineering works rather the non strike days), which they've just (last couple of days) started referencing timetable of the day. Why the sudden change?

 

[Chrisgr31]

GNR were tweeting last week that delay repay applied and told me to apply for it ( this is re the engineering works rather the non strike days), which they've just (last couple of days) started referencing timetable of the day. Why the sudden change?

Could you just give a bit more details?

Who is GNR? Great Northern or is it a typo? My understanding is that the Timetable of the Day appeared in the latest version of the NRCoT but it only appears to impact season ticket holders! I am not leaving it alone, but challenging it is a long process in order to gather evidence, and ensure my facts are correct.

I have today submitted a complaint to the Rail Ombudsman about their handling of my complaint, which joins my complaint to Southern about their handling of my complaint.

I think they have been told by DfT to use Timetable of the Day, and have an FOI outstanding on that to try and find out!

 

[Magdalen Road]

Could you just give a bit more details?

Who is GNR? Great Northern or is it a typo? My understanding is that the Timetable of the Day appeared in the latest version of the NRCoT but it only appears to impact season ticket holders! I am not leaving it alone, but challenging it is a long process in order to gather evidence, and ensure my facts are correct.

I have today submitted a complaint to the Rail Ombudsman about their handling of my complaint, which joins my complaint to Southern about their handling of my complaint.

I think they have been told by DfT to use Timetable of the Day, and have an FOI outstanding on that to try and find out!

Do you mean the 'day after strike 3 hours later than usual start' or the utter shambles of the current service?
They refused to even entertain the idea of paying up for the post-strike rubbish despite it being blindingly obvious that getting to work 3 hours late (at the most optimistic) is not a service that most employees can use for a commute.
I have had delay repay paid out for the current drought related track issues, although I see Great northern are now claiming it doesn't apply.

 

[Chrisgr31]

Do you mean the 'day after strike 3 hours later than usual start' or the utter shambles of the current service?
They refused to even entertain the idea of paying up for the post-strike rubbish despite it being blindingly obvious that getting to work 3 hours late (at the most optimistic) is not a service that most employees can use for a commute.
I have had delay repay paid out for the current drought related track issues, although I see Great northern are now claiming it doesn't apply.

So they are no longer paying out for engineering work? Also on the timetable of the day basis? You have a season ticket then? When was it bought? have you claimed delay repay and had it refused?

just reading this https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/209242.aspx and oh the irony “

Why are Rover and Season Tickets calculated differently?​

Season Tickets are valid for multiple days, and for unlimited journeys at any time of day, between two points, or within a defined geographical area. Because of the flexibility they offer, Season Tickets are mostly bought and used by commuters traveling to and from their place of work. ”

No compensation when 3 hours late for work due to timetable of the day!

 

[Magdalen Road]

So they are no longer paying out for engineering work? Also on the timetable of the day basis? You have a season ticket then? When was it bought? have you claimed delay repay and had it refused?

just reading this https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/209242.aspx and oh the irony “

Why are Rover and Season Tickets calculated differently?​

Season Tickets are valid for multiple days, and for unlimited journeys at any time of day, between two points, or within a defined geographical area. Because of the flexibility they offer, Season Tickets are mostly bought and used by commuters traveling to and from their place of work. ”

No compensation when 3 hours late for work due to timetable of the day!

As I've previously written Great Northern paid delay repay for last week's engineering work related delays (late to London due to having to change at Cambridge for London because of the King's Lynn train only going to Cambridge).
I haven't commuted this week so haven't submitted a claim.
A user on twitter asked on 15/9/22 why their delay repay claims were being rejected and was told it was due to the timetable of the day.


Re the post strike timetable, I've taken annual leave or swapped days because I can't be 3 hours late for work. So am incurring inconvenience in a different way.

 

[cvh]

They also rejected my complaint on the basis that train companies can change the timetable at whim if it’s published before 10 pm, although they mentioned taking the complaint further with transport focus. I suspect if this went to court, such a policy would be thrown out as against consumer law, as you can’t just change contracts with customers in such a way in any business. The trouble is taking someone to court for <£100 is prohibitive. Of course, as someone who actually has a flexi season ticket, what one can actually do is ‘activate’ the ticket on strike days to get the compensation you are entitled to when you didn’t really plan to travel that day but instead were planning to travel the day after; it’s just then one would be playing the rules as unfairly as the train companies.

 

[Chrisgr31]

I emailed Transport Focus and got an email back from London Watch:-

"The Rail Delivery Group informed passengers that Delay Repay for 120 minutes will be made available to monthly and yearly season ticket holders who were unable to travel on strike days on which our staff participated. Although, London TravelWatch disagrees with this even though the schedule changed on days when there wasn't a strike, the compensation changes only took effect on strike days. The amount you may claim back varies depending on the duration of the delay, the cause of the delay, and the specific company's policy, which is outlined in their Passenger Charter.

As a revised schedule was in effect for the week, passengers who did not travel on any of the days, including strike dates, would not have been entitled to compensation. London TraveWatch acknowledges how unfair this is for passengers, especially for annual season ticket holders and agrees that a better compensation system should be put in place. The modifications will continue with comparable information on upcoming strike dates, nonetheless we are continuing working with the industry to demonstrate how passengers are affected on the days surrounding strike action

I hope this information is useful and gives you a better understanding of how the compensation works for strike and non-strike days. However, London TravelWatch understands how stressful this situation is, but we are unable to provide an immediate satisfactory response due to the ongoing nature of the situation."

You have to wonder what is the purpose of these watchdogs!

 

[Magdalen Road]

Utter nonsense. That's the polite version.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

The Rail Ombudsman has finally started adjudication for my case...

As mediation has now been exhausted, your case will proceed to formal adjudication. This means that the Rail Ombudsman will make an impartial written decision on the case, based on the evidence and information provided. Please note, that as we are independent, our decision may be different to what you are seeking, or to what may have been previously offered by the RSP. The Rail Ombudsman will take into account the train operator's own passenger charter, your rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, any other applicable legislation and the National Rail Conditions of Travel, in accordance with the merits of your case.

Please note that my review will not extend to scrutiny of the National Rail Conditions of Travel itself, as this is outside of remit. My role is to ascertain whether the RSP has acted consistent to the provisions and applicable railway guidelines, where relevant. As we are not a court, we cannot challenge the existing functions of the framework of rules and obligations. It is important that I manage your expectations in this way.

I fail to see how they can take into account rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and other legislation if these rights are at odds to conditions in the NRCoT. I do not hold my breath out for compensation.

 

[Fiyero]

It looks like SWR have removed reference to being able to make a claim for 120 minutes on strike days. I know the last and next one are Saturdays but that is a day I often use my pass!