Delay repay questions.

[Mark J]

I've recently signed up for Delay Repay on the GWR website.

I did a return trip from Reading to Oxford on 7th Jan that was delayed above 15 minutes in each direction.

The trip going up to Oxford was GWR, the one coming back was using Crosscountry.

I've inadvertently logged a claim for the return trip using Crosscountry on the GWR Delay Repay site.

My questions are:

A) Will this return trip claim using XC now be rejected?
B) Do I have to have a separate Delay Repay account for every operator I use?

If the answer to B) is yes, then that is a bit silly. The whole system should be centralised.

 

[Haywain]

A) Will this return trip claim using XC now be rejected?

It will either be rejected or passed to XC by GWR. You'll have to wait and see.

B) Do I have to have a separate Delay Repay account for every operator I use?

You need a separate account for every operator who becomes liable to a claim from you.

If the answer to B) is yes, then that is a bit silly. The whole system should be centralised.

You won't find much argument to that here.

 

[jon81uk]

The whole system should be centralised.

You could say that about the entirety of the British rail system.

 

[Mark J]

It will either be rejected or passed to XC by GWR. You'll have to wait and see.

You need a separate account for every operator who becomes liable to a claim from you.

You won't find much argument to that here.

Thanks for the response.

It does seem a bit silly that a separate account is needed for every operator.

Especially if you do a long trip that involves multiple operators, all of which are delayed - would make the claim process ridiculously complicated.

Surely it is something that ATOC could do on a centralised basis.

If the claim for the XC journey is passed into XC, will this be stated on the submitted claims page on GWR Delay Repay site?

You could say that about the entirety of the British rail system.

Very true!

 

[Benjwri]

Especially if you do a long trip that involves multiple operators, all of which are delayed - would make the claim process ridiculously complicated.

The rules on which are fairly complicated unfortunately, but on a single journey you only claim from one operator.

 

[Mark J]

Just checked the page for an update. The outward journey is still being processed. However, the return journey using XC has been rejected.

Edit: I see XC only pay out on delays more than 30 minutes, not 15 minutes like GWR!

So even the minimum delayed time is not standardised across all operators.

 

[robbeech]

The correct course of action is for GWR to automatically pass this on to Crosscountry and notify you of this. Whether this happens in practise you'll have to wait and see for a response. Sometimes operators will pass claims on to other operators regardless of what train is was, the whole thing can be quite messy and farcical.

 

[redreni]

Not sure about XC.

GWR definitely issue paper delay repay forms and accept claims by post, so there's no need to have an account.

 

[robbeech]

If that has been rejected by GWR, it won't be rejected by XC as already being lodged with GWR as rejected?

It's a shame they haven't followed the correct procedure here. There is no issue submitting this to XC now, but do just double check your e-mail and the case to make sure it definitely doesn't say they've forwarded it.

The NRCOT Part 32.1 states :

32.1 If you are delayed in reaching your destination as a result of a delay or cancellation of a train service, you may be entitled to claim compensation from the Train Company that is responsible for the delay in completing your journey. Your claim can be made to any Train Company whose services you used to make your journey, who will, if necessary, forward your claim to the Train Company responsible.

So it's clear what GWR should have done here.

 

[Benjwri]

It's a shame they haven't followed the correct procedure here. There is no issue submitting this to XC now, but do just double check your e-mail and the case to make sure it definitely doesn't say they've forwarded it.

Although they could've done that because as mentioned the journey was only delayed by 15 minutes, so doesn't qualify for delay repay with CrossCountry, therefore not forwarding the request, when it is claimed by the applicant it wasn't eligible, and I'm sure their system tells them that too is jsut saving everyone time. It would be good to get a rejection reason when TOCs do forward requests though.

 

[Mark J]

It's a shame they haven't followed the correct procedure here. There is no issue submitting this to XC now, but do just double check your e-mail and the case to make sure it definitely doesn't say they've forwarded it.

The NRCOT Part 32.1 states :


So it's clear what GWR should have done here.

I didn't realise that Delay Repay kicks in after 30 minutes on XC. I assumed it was after 15 minutes, like GWR.

This was my first time of claiming money back for delays.

Again, it is silly that the process does not have centralised T&C's across all operators.

Such as after 15 minutes for all operators, not just some!

I've had a steep learning curve for future claims!

 

[robbeech]

Although they could've done that because as mentioned the journey was only delayed by 15 minutes, so doesn't qualify for delay repay with CrossCountry, therefore not forwarding the request, when it is claimed by the applicant it wasn't eligible, and I'm sure their system tells them that too is jsut saving everyone time. It would be good to get a rejection reason when TOCs do forward requests though.

The railway isn't in the habit of doing anything efficiently or with any form of connection between left and right arms so i feel it's unlikely that GWR would choose to not forward it based on XC's criteria being different to their own. Afterall, XC MAY pay out compensation as a good will gesture (they won't but they'd be entitled to).

I didn't realise that Delay Repay kicks in after 30 minutes on XC. I assumed it was after 15 minutes, like GWR.

Indeed, consistency is not in the vocabulary of the railway. As such, it's likely not worth putting in your own manual claim with XC but that doesn't stop GWR being poor for not doing what they should have done. I definitely don't buy the argument that they haven't bothered due to XC's threshold difference, who are GWR to suggest whether XC pay out or not?

 

[Benjwri]

The railway isn't in the habit of doing anything efficiently or with any form of connection between left and right arms so i feel it's unlikely that GWR would choose to not forward it based on XC's criteria being different to their own. Afterall, XC MAY pay out compensation as a good will gesture (they won't but they'd be entitled to).

It's true, however I have had multiple applications passed on (Wrongly and rightly) by GWR, so they definitely do it. As for XC paying out compensation under 30 mintues, lets be honest, they use an automated system, it wont even be seen by someone most likely without an appeal. If they would appeal XC, they'll probably appear to GWR who would then send it to XC most likely. I don't really think, if they noticed it didn't qualify, if would be wrong not to send it. Obviously if they just didn't send it that would be wrong.

 

[robbeech]

It's true, however I have had multiple applications passed on (Wrongly and rightly) by GWR, so they definitely do it.

It's entirely possible they have done it and have failed to communicate it on this occasion i suppose.

 

[redreni]

The correct course of action is for GWR to automatically pass this on to Crosscountry and notify you of this. Whether this happens in practise you'll have to wait and see for a response. Sometimes operators will pass claims on to other operators regardless of what train is was, the whole thing can be quite messy and farcical.

I can see the benefit of that system in theory.

In practice the TOCs' decision-making is so poor that it can create as much hassle as it solves, because there's nothing to stop a claim being forwarded to another TOC when it shouldn't be.

GWR recently paid out on two claims I made for

1. A delay of 15-29 minutes on a journey from Paddington to Maidenhead; and
2. A delay of 30-59 minutes on the return journey from Maidenhead to Paddington the same day.

I held the following tickets:

1. An inboundary Z1-6 off-peak day travelcard
2. An off-peak day return from Boundary Zone 6 to Maidenhead

They made me submit two separate claims. I submitted the outbound portion of my day return ticket plus the travelcard with the first claim form. With the second claim form, submitted at the same time in the same envelope, I submitted the return portion of the day return but, of course, I couldn't submit the travelcard again. I filled in the details of the travelcard on the form, attached a photocopy and wrote them a little note explaining that the original ticket had been enclosed with the other claim. They paid out the first claim based on the combined cost of the day travelcard and the day return boundary ticket. They paid out the second claim based only on the cost of the day return boundary ticket, ignoring the travelcard. I wouldn't have minded but when I appealed, it took them three weeks to respond and when they did, they doubled down on their obviously wrong decision.

It really can be quite tiresome getting the right amount of delay repay out of the TOCs at times. I'm sure they design the system this way hoping people will value their time more than the pitiful amount they're owed and won't claim. It's only stubbornness that causes me to adopt a policy of making sure the bureaucratic hurdles and rank incompetence that they place in the way of valid claims will not enable them to get out of paying and will just add to their admin costs.

 

[Mark J]

After all this a couple more questions have now cropped up for tickets I've bought during the GWR January Sale, using the Trainsplit App...

Of course this is assuming delays occur on those journeys I've booked.

A) Is Delay Repay payable on delayed journeys using advance tickets?
B) If those tickets have been purchased through a third party site, who would I go to claim compensation for delays? GWR, submitting third party tickets, or the app that I purchased tickets from?

 

[redreni]

A) Yes.
B) GWR.

 

[Mark J]

A) Yes.
B) GWR.

Thanks for reply.

That clears that potential issue up!

 

[Watershed]

After all this a couple more questions have now cropped up for tickets I've bought during the GWR January Sale, using the Trainsplit App...

Of course this is assuming delays occur on those journeys I've booked.

A) Is Delay Repay payable on delayed journeys using advance tickets?
B) If those tickets have been purchased through a third party site, who would I go to claim compensation for delays? GWR, submitting third party tickets, or the app that I purchased tickets from?

A) Delay Repay is payable on all paid tickets, regardless of ticket type, with the exception of Interrail/Eurail passes (where the Eurail compensation scheme applies instead).

B) The train operator that caused your journey to become delayed, so in this case that would be GWR. You'd only go to the retailer if you wanted a refund because you were no longer travelling (whether due to disruption or a change of plans).

 

[Mark J]

I can see the benefit of that system in theory.

In practice the TOCs' decision-making is so poor that it can create as much hassle as it solves, because there's nothing to stop a claim being forwarded to another TOC when it shouldn't be.

GWR recently paid out on two claims I made for

1. A delay of 15-29 minutes on a journey from Paddington to Maidenhead; and
2. A delay of 30-59 minutes on the return journey from Maidenhead to Paddington the same day.

I held the following tickets:

1. An inboundary Z1-6 off-peak day travelcard
2. An off-peak day return from Boundary Zone 6 to Maidenhead

They made me submit two separate claims. I submitted the outbound portion of my day return ticket plus the travelcard with the first claim form. With the second claim form, submitted at the same time in the same envelope, I submitted the return portion of the day return but, of course, I couldn't submit the travelcard again. I filled in the details of the travelcard on the form, attached a photocopy and wrote them a little note explaining that the original ticket had been enclosed with the other claim. They paid out the first claim based on the combined cost of the day travelcard and the day return boundary ticket. They paid out the second claim based only on the cost of the day return boundary ticket, ignoring the travelcard. I wouldn't have minded but when I appealed, it took them three weeks to respond and when they did, they doubled down on their obviously wrong decision.

It really can be quite tiresome getting the right amount of delay repay out of the TOCs at times. I'm sure they design the system this way hoping people will value their time more than the pitiful amount they're owed and won't claim. It's only stubbornness that causes me to adopt a policy of making sure the bureaucratic hurdles and rank incompetence that they place in the way of valid claims will not enable them to get out of paying and will just add to their admin costs.

I used to not bother with Delay Repay.

However, I am becoming increasingly annoyed at fares keep creeping up (another 4.9% this year) and delays seemingly becoming more regular, for whatever reason.

I missed out on claiming for a return journey from Reading to Paddington in Dec, when the overhead wires came down - despite the on-board Train Manager advising people to make a claim!

A) Delay Repay is payable on all paid tickets, regardless of ticket type, with the exception of Interrail/Eurail passes (where the Eurail compensation scheme applies instead).

B) The train operator that caused your journey to become delayed, so in this case that would be GWR. You'd only go to the retailer if you wanted a refund because you were no longer travelling (whether due to disruption or a change of plans).

Once again, many thanks for reply.

I wasn't sure if GWR would only provide Delay Repay on tickets bought through them direct, or a ticket machine at one of their stations.

I also had to provide the debit card receipt ticket as evidence for the outward Oxford journey, as the ticket barrier gobbled up my outward ticket at Oxford!

 

[Watershed]

However, I am becoming increasingly annoyed at fares keep creeping up (another 4.9% this year) and delays seemingly becoming more regular, for whatever reason.

The GWML has had a terrible time recently in terms of reliability; in my view a targeted fares freeze would be reasonable in view of this (similar to the old Passenger's Charter renewal discount). However whilst I agree that fares are far too high in many cases, it's worth noting that despite the upcoming 4.9% increase, fares will be cheaper in real terms than the year before - since inflation over that period has been nearer 10%.

Once again, many thanks for reply.

I wasn't sure if GWR would only provide Delay Repay on tickets bought through them direct, or a ticket machine at one of their stations.

Delay Repay and buying tickets are two separate processes and there's no direct connection between the two; Delay Repay is payable regardless of who you buy your ticket from.

Whilst you can of course buy your ticket from the train company you travel with, many (if not most) tickets are bought through third party retailers or other indirect methods. Train companies would have a significant and unfair advantage if you could only claim Delay Repay if you bought your ticket directly!

I also had to provide the debit card receipt ticket as evidence for the outward Oxford journey, as the ticket barrier gobbled up my outward ticket at Oxford!

Yes - it's advisable to ask a member of barrier staff to let you through so you can keep your ticket, if you will be claiming Delay Repay. Fortunately most TOCs are pragmatic and allow you to claim Delay Repay with alternative proof of purchase.

 

[robbeech]

Advice here is to take a photo of a paper ticket when there is disruption although when you can it is always worth asking gateline staff to allow you to keep your ticket for delay repay purposes anyway. Sadly, whilst some operators specifically tell you to refrain from using barriers at your destination and request that you speak to staff in order to keep tickets, some staff (even from the same operator) will wrongly refuse to do this so getting a photograph is always best.

Of course, using e tickets gets rid of this issue, and where they are scanned also provides useful data for an operator to use for your claim. Sadly not all flows have e tickets yet.

I'd urge people to claim wherever possible, even if its for a couple of quid. Once you've got an account with an operator then most claims SHOULD be straight forwards. There's an argument to those who are really busy to say that low value claims cost them more in their time than they're likely to get back, especially when operators start playing up and rejecting but we then recommend people make their claims whilst they're on the train between their jobs etc.

 

[Mark J]

Advice here is to take a photo of a paper ticket when there is disruption although when you can it is always worth asking gateline staff to allow you to keep your ticket for delay repay purposes anyway. Sadly, whilst some operators specifically tell you to refrain from using barriers at your destination and request that you speak to staff in order to keep tickets, some staff (even from the same operator) will wrongly refuse to do this so getting a photograph is always best.

Of course, using e tickets gets rid of this issue, and where they are scanned also provides useful data for an operator to use for your claim. Sadly not all flows have e tickets yet.

I'd urge people to claim wherever possible, even if its for a couple of quid. Once you've got an account with an operator then most claims SHOULD be straight forwards. There's an argument to those who are really busy to say that low value claims cost them more in their time than they're likely to get back, especially when operators start playing up and rejecting but we then recommend people make their claims whilst they're on the train between their jobs etc.

Yes, I shall take photos of paper tickets for any future delayed journeys.

Do e-tickets disappear from view once you have scanned them at your destination station? I've never used e-tickets before, so unsure if they do.

If so, it would be worth taking a screenshot of any e-tickets, if the service is delayed.

The odd pound, or so, here and there claimed, can soon add up!

The GWML has had a terrible time recently in terms of reliability; in my view a targeted fares freeze would be reasonable in view of this (similar to the old Passenger's Charter renewal discount). However whilst I agree that fares are far too high in many cases, it's worth noting that despite the upcoming 4.9% increase, fares will be cheaper in real terms than the year before - since inflation over that period has been nearer 10%.

I usually use GWR on a Saturday, and sometimes a Sunday.

Every Saturday I've been at Reading, there is always at least one GWR service displayed that is delayed for whatever reason, usually on routes to/from Bristol, Wales and the South West, occasionally from Paddington.

Crosscountry is usually worse. A couple of Saturdays ago, one train coming up from Bournemouth was over 90 minutes late. I've rarely been on a XC service that has departed and arrived at the timetabled times. However, many of their delays are usually under 30 minutes, so avoid the Delay Repay payout.

However, all those delays under 30 minutes add up over time!

 

[robbeech]

Do e-tickets disappear from view once you have scanned them at your destination station? I've never used e-tickets before, so unsure if they do.

All retailers do things differently, especially for tickets purchased within an app. However, you should get an e-mail with an attachment from most retailers regardless of how you purchased an e ticket so this can be referred to at any time. I generally use the forum's ticket site for things nowadays and i use Apple Wallet to store my tickets, but i always have the e-mail to access to, and on some journeys, depending on the circumstances i will sometimes print a copy and keep them in my bag too.

 

[Mark J]

Another question.

Today I visited Swindon with advance tickets bought from the GWR January sale, however I decided to extend the journey to Stroud instead, purchasing tickets at Swindon for the onward journey.

The train going out from Swindon to Stroud arrived 15 minutes late, so will claim on Delay Repay.

However, the train I was intending to catch back, the 20:34 was cancelled, resulting in me having to hang around a near deserted Stroud town centre, and the 21:36 is 'delayed'.

I am due to miss my connecting advance ticket booked train as a result. Can I then use another service as result of this issue?

What compensation can I claim for this return part of the journey?

Do I have to go through the delay repay procedure for this?

 

[Watershed]

The train going out from Swindon to Stroud arrived 15 minutes late, so will claim on Delay Repay.

Worth noting that you can claim Delay Repay based on the total cost of your tickets - so submit a picture/screenshot of both when making your claim and write the total as the sum of the two tickets' prices.

However, the train I was intending to catch back, the 20:34 was cancelled, resulting in me having to hang around a near deserted Stroud town centre, and the 21:36 is 'delayed'.

I am due to miss my connecting advance ticket booked train as a result. Can I then use another service as result of this issue?

Yes - you're entitled to take the next train(s) towards to your destination.

What compensation can I claim for this return part of the journey?

Do I have to go through the delay repay procedure for this?

Delay Repay as you say - and again based on both tickets.

Your rights when holding split tickets are, for most practical intents and purposes, the same as holding a through ticket but simply with an extra requirement to call (or change) at the split station.

 

[Mark J]

Worth noting that you can claim Delay Repay based on the total cost of your tickets - so submit a picture/screenshot of both when making your claim and write the total as the sum of the two tickets' prices.


Yes - you're entitled to take the next train(s) towards to your destination.


Delay Repay as you say - and again based on both tickets.

Your rights when holding split tickets are, for most practical intents and purposes, the same as holding a through ticket but simply with an extra requirement to call (or change) at the split station.

Many thanks for your reply.

It appears the 22:02 (21:32 from Cheltenham) is running two minutes late, however I've had to hang around two hours for it!

 

[Benjwri]

It appears the 22:02 (21:32 from Cheltenham) is running two minutes late, however I've had to hang around two hours for it!

You claim from the train you intended to take, so your delay when claiming is the difference in time between arriving at the destination on your final ticket as planned, and the actual time you arrived.

 

[Mark J]

You claim from the train you intended to take, so your delay when claiming is the difference in time between arriving at the destination on your final ticket as planned, and the actual time you arrived.

In which case that will be the Stroud to Swindon leg. Was intending to hang around Swindon until booked train of 22:41.

I've just spoken to the Train Manager regarding concerns about missing connecting train at Swindon. He just said to remain on this train, that will stop at Reading - due to the disruption issues between Reading and Paddington that have caused the problems.


----

(Extra post added 25th Jan)

I have a couple of more questions (sorry!)

If for example I have a direct ticket from A > C which requires a change of trains/operators at station B.

1) Train A is late resulting in me missing the connection on Train B, ultimately I arrive at my final destination late. Who would then I claim from, Operator of Train A?
2) If both trains A and B are late, is it allowed to submit claims to Operator A and Operator B using the same ticket? If both trains are operated by Operator A how would you then claim?
3) I'm also assuming that if you decide to break a journey and it arrives it arrives late at the intended break point location, you cannot claim anything?

 

[Watershed]

1) Train A is late resulting in me missing the connection on Train B, ultimately I arrive at my final destination late. Who would then I claim from, Operator of Train A?

Yes, that's correct. It's the train company that first causes your journey to become materially delayed that is liable. We've heard of previous cases where claims have been batted from pillar to post but ultimately you are entitled to bring a claim with either company and if this is the "wrong" company, they will forward it to the "right" one.

2) If both trains A and B are late, is it allowed to submit claims to Operator A and Operator B using the same ticket? If both trains are operated by Operator A how would you then claim?

No; you claim on the basis of the delay at your destination. If operator A's train was late but they did not cause you to miss your connection, you would claim from operator B - but as above, if you did claim from the "wrong" company, they will forward the claim to the "right" one.

3) I'm also assuming that if you decide to break a journey and it arrives it arrives late at the intended break point location, you cannot claim anything?

You can; this is also why the claim forms usually ask you both the details of your journey and of your ticket - as the two may be different. I've had no difficulties making claims where I've broken my journey and indeed it's somewhat rare that I am actually travelling from A to B on a ticket from A to B!