Denied exit at Leicester Square Underground (on a cross-London ticket) - again!

[alistairlees]

I am sure forum readers will be familiar with this:
- I have a cross-London ticket, and wanted to travel on the Underground from Kings Cross to Charing Cross
- I decide to exit the Underground at Leicester Square (as permitted by the National Rail Conditions of Travel (NRCoT)), to walk from there to Charing Cross, rather than change from the Piccadilly to the Northern line
- the ticket was rejected by the Leicester Square ticket barrier (as expected)
- the TfL person manning the gateline denied me exit, saying: "you can only use this to exit at a National Rail station", "this is the London Underground and not part of National Rail, so the National Rail Conditions don't apply" and "in my training this was specifically stated as something that was not allowed".
- after some discussion, we agreed to disagree and I was 'allowed' through, after being invited to go to Charing Cross on the tube instead (and rejecting this offer)

He was not really listening to anything I said, just repeating the things above. To be fair I think he he genuinely thought he was correct - he has just received poor training.

This is not the first time this has happened to me at Leicester Square!

Thoughts?

 

[Watershed]

Raise a complaint with LU.

Don't think there's any point trying to bring along paperwork or cite bits of the NRCoT on your phone.

 

[Coolzac]

I would definitely raise a complaint with LU. Funnily enough I remember having the same issue a while ago but not knowing enough about the subject, didn't argue with the person at the barrier as I assumed I was wrong. So clearly, LU need to alter their training on this issue!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have had the same thing - "I can only let you through if I charge you a Penalty Fare" - but backed down in the end.

 

[talldave]

I had the same at Warren Street. When I was open about the fact that I had bought a ticket to somewhere I wasn't going because it was cheaper than a ticket to Warren Street the reply was "and that's why you're not allowed out".

In the end I destroyed the ticket to pacify him that I wouldn’t try to resume my journey on the underground (which is against the rules). But of course that's not an option in the OP's case!

 

[Watershed]

I had the same at Warren Street. When I was open about the fact that I had bought a ticket to somewhere I wasn't going because it was cheaper than a ticket to Warren Street the reply was "and that's why you're not allowed out".

Unfortunately honesty rarely pays!

In the end I destroyed the ticket to pacify him that I wouldn’t try to resume my journey on the underground (which is against the rules). But of course that's not an option in the OP's case!

That would be impossible anyway - your ticket would have been through the barriers so would be rejected for re-entry.

 

[yorkie]

LU Gateline Assistants can be like this; I've experienced similar disputes, including disputes at stations such as Moorgate over inter-availability rules.

Their job spec is to "deliver world class service"; they can't say ticketing knowledge isn't part of their remit as it also clearly states they should provide "help and advice on ticketing" and are required to have "Excellent knowledge of the London Underground system, ticketing and travel options "

They should have "Excellent customer service skills" and an "ability to determine the best solution to meet customers needs (eg ticketing)" as well as an "ability to communicate clearly and effectively ..."

The salary is around £34k pa, I believe. This is several thousand more than I get paid for a job in which I have more responsibilities and I could not get away with behaving or lacking knowledge as some of them do; admittedly London has a higher cost of living than York, but still they can't say they aren't paid enough to offer good service.

I can't see things changing though. It's been like this for as long as I can remember.

 

[clagmonster]

I have had the same thing - "I can only let you through if I charge you a Penalty Fare" - but backed down in the end.

I think I would accept the penalty fare, requesting that they noted that I had presented ticket X. I would then appeal. Any letter received upholding the appeal could then be shown when the problems recurs.

 

[paul1609]

Out of interest what actual ticket were you travelling on?

 

[ThisIsSurbiton]

Given that the barriers can pass the tickets when used at a National Rail interchange, you'd think they could be enabled for exit but not entry at all suitable stations, avoiding any random decisions. Can they not be configured differently for entry and exit?

 

[Haywain]

Given that the barriers can pass the tickets when used at a National Rail interchange, you'd think they could be enabled for exit but not entry at all suitable stations, avoiding any random decisions. Can they not be configured differently for entry and exit?

As I recall, not possible. Cross London marker can only be set as accepted or not.

 

[AY1975]

I am sure forum readers will be familiar with this:
- I have a cross-London ticket, and wanted to travel on the Underground from Kings Cross to Charing Cross
- I decide to exit the Underground at Leicester Square (as permitted by the National Rail Conditions of Travel (NRCoT)), to walk from there to Charing Cross, rather than change from the Piccadilly to the Northern line
- the ticket was rejected by the Leicester Square ticket barrier (as expected)
- the TfL person manning the gateline denied me exit, saying: "you can only use this to exit at a National Rail station", "this is the London Underground and not part of National Rail, so the National Rail Conditions don't apply" and "in my training this was specifically stated as something that was not allowed".
- after some discussion, we agreed to disagree and I was 'allowed' through, after being invited to go to Charing Cross on the tube instead (and rejecting this offer)

He was not really listening to anything I said, just repeating the things above. To be fair I think he he genuinely thought he was correct - he has just received poor training.

This is not the first time this has happened to me at Leicester Square!

Thoughts?

Are you sure Leicester Square to Charing Cross is a permitted Out of Station Interchange (OSI)? Unless I've overlooked something it doesn't appear to be mentioned in the NRCoT under the link that you posted. It also isn't on the OSI list at https://oysterfares.com/information-pages/interchanging-trains/osi-list/

 

[alistairlees]

Are you sure Leicester Square to Charing Cross is a permitted Out of Station Interchange (OSI)? Unless I've overlooked something it doesn't appear to be mentioned in the NRCoT under the link that you posted. It also isn't on the OSI list at https://oysterfares.com/information-pages/interchanging-trains/osi-list/

I think you've misunderstood the question. The NRE website says:

You can ‘break your transfer journey' and leave the Underground at any intermediate station, e.g. if you are travelling between Victoria and Euston you can exit at Oxford Circus. However, if you subsequently wish to continue your journey by Underground you will have to purchase another ticket.

 

[MikeWh]

Are you sure Leicester Square to Charing Cross is a permitted Out of Station Interchange (OSI)? Unless I've overlooked something it doesn't appear to be mentioned in the NRCoT under the link that you posted. It also isn't on the OSI list at https://oysterfares.com/information-pages/interchanging-trains/osi-list/

It isn't, but we're not talking about a PAYG journey here so it's irrelevant.

 

[Nicholas43]

As I recall, not possible. Cross London marker can only be set as accepted or not.

Has this changed since 2019 (or so)? I'm sure I remember using (for example) an Oxford>Norwich ticket, with Maltese Cross, to enter the Underground at Lancaster Gate (because, I presumed, this was set as an allowed entry, often more convenient than Bishops Bridge or Praed Street), and exit at Holborn (as it happened, later using a bus to continue to Liverpool Street). Both at Lancaster Gate and Holborn, my ticket opened the barriers.

 

[AY1975]

I think you've misunderstood the question. The NRE website says: You can ‘break your transfer journey' and leave the Underground at any intermediate station, e.g. if you are travelling between Victoria and Euston you can exit at Oxford Circus. However, if you subsequently wish to continue your journey by Underground you will have to purchase another ticket.

Ah, I didn't realise that: I thought it had to be an Underground/National Rail interchange station or an Underground station that was a permitted Out of Station Interchange with a nearby National Rail station. You learn something new every day!

 

[swt_passenger]

Has this changed since 2019 (or so)? I'm sure I remember using (for example) an Oxford>Norwich ticket, with Maltese Cross, to enter the Underground at Lancaster Gate (because, I presumed, this was set as an allowed entry, often more convenient than Bishops Bridge or Praed Street), and exit at Holborn (as it happened, later using a bus to continue to Liverpool Street). Both at Lancaster Gate and Holborn, my ticket opened the barriers.

Lancaster Gate is on the national rail list of transfer stations, (there are 56 of them as linked in the first post), Holborn is not. I don’t think that list has changed much in the last few years.