Diesel Classes on the Island of Sodor.

[Cowley]

Just for a bit of fun and I’m only talking about the ones in the original W Awdry books, so not that silly Warship with the crunchy arm thingy on the top that was in the Hollywood film for instance…

I think it would be quite helpful if we could debate the various personalities of the diesels featured in the books in a professional psychoanalytical way, just to do the subject justice of course.
I’ve got at least six diesels and a unit in my mind but I’ll let you list the rest of them.

I’ll start things off with ‘Boco’ the Metro-Vic class 28 Co-Bo:

“This engine is a ‘Metropolitan-Vickers, diesel-electric, Type 2’” were the words said to Bill and Ben the dockyard twins by Edward when he caught them causing Boco psychological problems one day…

But what attracted the Reverend to such a strange anachronistic class of diesel?
He certainly wasn’t too keen on diesels but did Boco’s slightly sad face endear him to the Reverend?

I feel that Boco had a personality and calmness that was far stronger than his inner mechanical workings should probably have allowed him to have had.
Outside he was calm, considerate and wise.
Inside he was a jangling, rattling two-stroke, bag of bolts and generally just a smoking maelstrom of chaos. And that was when things were working properly!
Perhaps the fact that he knew the Fat Controller wouldn’t just give up on him like BR would inevitably do with his siblings, gave him the hope to show everyone around him that things could be ok?
A genuinely kind hearted loco despite the odds stacked against him.

OK your turn to pick one…

 

[Gloster]

Going back fifty years to a map I had, my recollection is that Sodor is situated between Furness and the Isle of Man. Which was where the Class 28 were based. (I could have said ‘worked’, but they were notoriously unreliable. Although possibly not as unreliable as they had been before they were exiled to Barrow.)

 

[Cowley]

Going back fifty years to a map I had, my recollection is that Sodor is situated between Furness and the Isle of Man. Which was where the Class 28 were based. (I could have said ‘worked’, but they were notoriously unreliable. Although possibly not as unreliable as they had been before they were exiled to Barrow.)

Yes definitely. But then that doesn’t explain how a Hymek ended up over there…

 

[D6968]

Yes definitely. But then that doesn’t explain how a Hymek ended up over there…

Beyer Peacocks works weren’t that far away in Manchester… Could there have been a 102nd built for a proposed next batch that made its way over on test?

 

[D6968]

Just for a bit of fun and I’m only talking about the ones in the original W Awdry books, so not that silly Warship with the crunchy arm thingy on the top that was in the Hollywood film for instance…

I think it would be quite helpful if we could debate the various personalities of the diesels featured in the books in a professional psychoanalytical way, just to do the subject justice of course.
I’ve got at least six diesels and a unit in my mind but I’ll let you list the rest of them.

I’ll start things off with ‘Boco’ the Metro-Vic class 28 Co-Bo:

“This engine is a ‘Metropolitan-Vickers, diesel-electric, Type 2’” were the words said to Bill and Ben the dockyard twins by Edward when he caught them causing Boco psychological problems one day…

But what attracted the Reverend to such a strange anachronistic class of diesel?
He certainly wasn’t too keen on diesels but did Boco’s slightly sad face endear him to the Reverend?

I feel that Boco had a personality and calmness that was far stronger than his inner mechanical workings should probably have allowed him to have had.
Outside he was calm, considerate and wise.
Inside he was a jangling, rattling two-stroke, bag of bolts and generally just a smoking maelstrom of chaos. And that was when things were working properly!
Perhaps the fact that he knew the Fat Controller wouldn’t just give up on him like BR would inevitably do with his siblings, gave him the hope to show everyone around him that things could be ok?
A genuinely kind hearted loco despite the odds stacked against him.

OK your turn to pick one…

We never quite know what D199 is do we? Is it a Peak or is it a 40?

 

[RuddA]

We never quite know what D199 is do we? Is it a Peak or is it a 40?

Not one I had heard of so did a search. Couple of pages say class 46.

 

[Cowley]

We never quite know what D199 is do we? Is it a Peak or is it a 40?

Not one I had heard of so did a search. Couple of pages say class 46.

I was always fairly certain that it was a Peak. I’ve studied my medical notes this morning and you can see that the grille arrangement and flush fitted cab doors do seem to confirm that.

 

[Peter C]

Then there's the case of the imaginatively-named "Diesel"...
Seems to think quite highly of himself, and thinks he's the bee's knees (despite not having wasp stripes) all because he runs on some funny liquid and not those strange black lumps with the fire and water. Given the number of strange locomotive classes and alterations to locomotives on Sodor, I'm surprised such an engine didn't work its way over from one of the shunter classes of the LMS

Diesel is quite funny in a way really. You could argue that no other character in that series has done more to affect the public's view of railways; the first diesel engine in the books and it's a mean old thing which hates all steam engines. Cue parents up and down the country thinking "steamies" are good and diesels are bad (I mean, they're not wrong - but I'll run for cover after saying that!).


There's also Rusty. Sticks out like a sore thumb amongst the steam engines of the Skarloey Railway (given the rest of the fleet are red though, you'd think he'd fit in quite well with that simile) and seems to spend his whole time on engineers' workings (why does the Skarloey Railway need maintaining so much? Sounds to me like it needs some proper renovation work). He seems to be a lot more grumpy in the books than he's portrayed as in the TV series - in The Little Old Engine (book no. 14), he gets quite the telling-off from Skarloey for being just a general annoyance (and that's putting it lightly) - by forgetting about the passengers (which on Sodor is probably punishable by scrapping for an engine, it seems).


I think in one of the pictures in the book about Stepney there are a handful of diesels from the "other railway", but they're hardly major characters...


-Peter

 

[Cowley]

Then there's the case of the imaginatively-named "Diesel"...
Seems to think quite highly of himself, and thinks he's the bee's knees (despite not having wasp stripes) all because he runs on some funny liquid and not those strange black lumps with the fire and water. Given the number of strange locomotive classes and alterations to locomotives on Sodor, I'm surprised such an engine didn't work its way over from one of the shunter classes of the LMS

Diesel is quite funny in a way really. You could argue that no other character in that series has done more to affect the public's view of railways; the first diesel engine in the books and it's a mean old thing which hates all steam engines. Cue parents up and down the country thinking "steamies" are good and diesels are bad (I mean, they're not wrong - but I'll run for cover after saying that!).

I think this is a good analysis Doctor @Peter C.
It’s hard now to quantify the impact of an English Electric 350hp turning up on the island and being ready to go at the push of a button. If he’d managed to keep his arrogance in check then the likes of Duck and Percy may well have been looking over their shoulders…
As it was Diesel got tied up in his own lies and was eventually sent packing and probably sold into industrial use before being scrapped in the early 1980s due to being vacuum braked only…

There's also Rusty. Sticks out like a sore thumb amongst the steam engines of the Skarloey Railway (given the rest of the fleet are red though, you'd think he'd fit in quite well with that simile) and seems to spend his whole time on engineers' workings (why does the Skarloey Railway need maintaining so much? Sounds to me like it needs some proper renovation work). He seems to be a lot more grumpy in the books than he's portrayed as in the TV series - in The Little Old Engine (book no. 14), he gets quite the telling-off from Skarloey for being just a general annoyance (and that's putting it lightly) - by forgetting about the passengers (which on Sodor is probably punishable by scrapping for an engine, it seems).

-Peter

I’d forgotten about Rusty.
I thought Rusty was a fairly pleasant individual and was portrayed kindly by the Reverend in the books. Although there was that incident when he wouldn’t start up because he didn’t want to help Duncan. I think I can excuse him that though because Duncan was fairly annoying.

 

[Peter C]

I think this is a good analysis Doctor @Peter C.
It’s hard now to quantify the impact of an English Electric 350hp turning up on the island and being ready to go at the push of a button. If he’d managed to keep his arrogance in check then the likes of Duck and Percy may well have been looking over their shoulders…
As it was Diesel got tied up in his own lies and was eventually sent packing and probably sold into industrial use before being scrapped in the early 1980s due to being vacuum braked only…

Well thank you Dr. @Cowley.
Most definitely. Although why Diesel picked on Duck and Percy is an interesting topic in-and-of itself; was there a reason he opposed locomotives of the Great Western Railway? There's probably a good paper to be written in that somewhere.
I expect there'll be an enthusiast on here soon to give us the full details of Diesel's life after Sodor (sounds like the title of an autobiography), but one thing to make note of is how Ian Allen's ABCs don't list him after 1974: there was a rumour on a forum somewhere online that he'd been sold to a private owner and was sat on a small piece of track somewhere near Morecambe...

I’d forgotten about Rusty.
I thought Rusty was a fairly pleasant individual and was portrayed kindly by the Reverend in the books. Although there was that incident when he wouldn’t start up because he didn’t want to help Duncan. I think I can excuse him that though because Duncan was fairly annoying.

The Reverend certainly liked to illustrate the differences between steam and diesel traction in his stories. That's another paper to be written - "The disagreements between steam and diesel traction on Sodor, as portrayed in a series of children's books".

-Peter

 

[D6130]

What about Salty, the class 07 that worked in the docks at Brendam Bay?....or was he a character invented for the TV series?

 

[Peter C]

What about Salty, the class 07 that worked in the docks at Brendam Bay?....or was he a character invented for the TV series?

I have a feeling he was. https://ttte.fandom.com/wiki/Salty says he first appeared in Series 6 - from what I remember he was one of a set of new characters introduced at about the same time (I think the others were Murdoch, Spencer, maybe Emily, and Arthur?)

-Peter

 

[Cowley]

I think in one of the pictures in the book about Stepney there are a handful of diesels from the "other railway", but they're hardly major characters...


-Peter

Yes indeed. I’m just looking at the paperwork now and Stepney is pictured at a large station adjacent to a green disc fitted class 31, an all over maroon liveried Western and a green class 40 without yellow ends.
The 31 and the 40 look angry whilst the Western looks slightly sad.
Not sure what to make of that? Perhaps the Western finds anger quite uncomfortable to be around?

 

[eldomtom2]

I have a feeling he was. https://ttte.fandom.com/wiki/Salty says he first appeared in Series 6 - from what I remember he was one of a set of new characters introduced at about the same time (I think the others were Murdoch, Spencer, maybe Emily, and Arthur?)

-Peter

The last series to adapt book stories was series 4, with the exception of three episodes in series 20. Nearly all the characters introduced then, obviously, were entirely creations of the TV writers and production crew.

 

[Peter C]

Yes indeed. I’m just looking at the paperwork now and Stepney is pictured at a large station adjacent to a green disc fitted class 31, an all over maroon liveried Western and a green class 40 without yellow ends.
The 31 and the 40 look angry whilst the Western looks slightly sad.
Not sure what to make of that? Perhaps the Western finds anger quite uncomfortable to be around?

Ah yes - that's the one. Either the Western doesn't like confrontation, or it's concerned that the only safety-conscious engine there is that 31 with its yellow panel?

The last series to adapt book stories was series 4, with the exception of three episodes in series 20. Nearly all the characters introduced then, obviously, were entirely creations of the TV writers and production crew.

Ah lovely - thanks. The first few series of the show are my favourites I think.

-Peter

 

[RuddA]

Ah lovely - thanks. The first few series of the show are my favourites I think.

You wouldn't want to see the latest series. Always watched Thomas on Channel 5 with my daughter but I can't stand the ones which are currently being shown.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

The Reverend Awdry tried to make stories authentic but he tweaked some things, for copyright reasons perhaps?

If I were a Co-Bo I should not like being called a BoCo, sounds very like BoJo.

Likewise the 1 Co-Co 1 engines had enough problems (120 tonnes!) without uncertainty as to their origins and identities.

 

[Ted633]

Pretty sure I remember a very unreliable class 17 Clayton, not sure if that was an episode based on the books or a later one

 

[Peter C]

Pretty sure I remember a very unreliable class 17 Clayton, not sure if that was an episode based on the books or a later one

I have a feeling that was a TV series-only thing. Can't remember the name of the engine now, but I do remember he worked with Bill and Ben in the quarry. How I've remembered all this I don't know

-Peter

EDIT: Turns out his name was Derek. https://ttte.fandom.com/wiki/Derek

 

[D6130]

I'm pretty sure that the (off-) centre cab diesel loco working in the quarry is based on a heavy industrial design that has the look of a Yorkshire Engine Co. product. This is based on the fact that my wife's and my compulsory bedtime viewing when we are in Italy is "Il Trenino Thomas" - dubbed in Italian - on Cartoon Channel 46 (Cartoonito). This is broadcast between 23 30 and 00 30....hardly peak childrens' viewing time, I would have thought!

 

[AJM580]

There was also Mavis (based on the 04s running on the Wisbech & Upwell); Daisy the railcar and Pip & Emma (the HST power cars). Think other diesels feature in the Christopher Awdry books - seem to recall a class 47.

 

[Taunton]

The Rev Awdry I think worked mainly from what he read in railway magazines of the era, plus he was a longstanding early volunteer on the Talyllyn. The artwork was done by separate illustrators, whose work certainly in the earlier books he only saw at the proof stage when it was too late, and it's written he had regular bust-ups (very unclerical) with them over aspects he didn't like; key early illustrator Reginald Dalby apparently finally quit due to such comments.

I am pleased to report that Little Miss Taunton, in a recent examination, was able to pair off numbers, names and colours of them all perfectly accurately (and wasn't there once a University Challenge question about these?)

 

[Cowley]

@Taunton - University Challenge? I could definitely get onboard with a subject like that (it definitely beats learning about the fleet status of class 321s anyway)!

 

[Merthyr Imp]

There's also Rusty. Sticks out like a sore thumb amongst the steam engines of the Skarloey Railway (given the rest of the fleet are red though, you'd think he'd fit in quite well with that simile) and seems to spend his whole time on engineers' workings (why does the Skarloey Railway need maintaining so much? Sounds to me like it needs some proper renovation work).

-Peter

Like most (all?) of the engines on the Skarloey Railway Rusty is based on a Talyllyn Railway locomotive, in this case their no. 5 Midlander, built 1940 by Ruston & Hornsby.

Also a product of Ruston & Hornsby (hence his name), according to the book 'The Island of Sodor, Its people, history and railways' by the Reverend and his brother, the engine was bought by Sir Handel Brown (the owner) in 1957 direct from Ruston & Hornsby. 'A generally reliable engine used for track maintenance and breakdowns, Rusty is also occasionally used in emergency for light passenger traffic.'

The same book gives the following details for the various diesels on the island (as of publication in 1987):

Bear - an ex-BR Western Region Hymek formerly 7101. It was sent on approval in 1967 together with Peak no. 199. The Hymek was found satisfactory and retained; but the Peak was returned with unfavourable comments.

Blister 1 and Blister ll - Four-wheeled diesel tractors with Lister engines. Bought for construction of the miniature railway and retained for maintenance and shunting.

Boco - In 1965 one of the engines used in the Barrow area found its way to the island. Sir Topham Hatt expressed interest and BR allowed him to keep it for trials. These proved satisfactory, and Boco was purchased.

Daisy - Metro-Cammell single car passenger unit built especially for Thomas's' branch line in 1960.

Mavis - Drewry locomotive bought for shunting, occasionally assisting Toby.

Sigrid of Arlesdale - diesel hydraulic 2-C-2 locomotive built in 1969 by Severn Lamb for the miniature railway. Originally had a Ford 4-cylinder engine, later replaced by a Perkins 6-cylinder unit.

No mention of Diesel, presumably because he was never taken into stock.

 

[30907]

Bear - an ex-BR Western Region Hymek formerly 7101. It was sent on approval in 1967 together with Peak no. 199. The Hymek was found satisfactory and retained; but the Peak was returned with unfavourable comments.

Boco - In 1965 one of the engines used in the Barrow area found its way to the island. Sir Topham Hatt expressed interest and BR allowed him to keep it for trials. These proved satisfactory, and Boco was purchased.

Daisy - Metro-Cammell single car passenger unit built especially for Thomas's' branch line in 1960.

Mavis - Drewry locomotive bought for shunting, occasionally assisting Toby.

No mention of Diesel, presumably because he was never taken into stock.

Mr Awdry seems to have softened his attitude over the years:
Diesel is the usurper/enemy who never learns Island ways (unlike eg Duck)
Daisy is notoriously unreliable.
But the island then becomes something of a refuge for marginalised mainland motive power (steam - eg Oliver - and diesel)....

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Was the Reverend Awdry commenting on social class?

Henry the Big Engine might have been a rich tory who retreated into a tunnel (Estate).

The hard-working honest small engines (Percy, Thomas) represented the artisanal working class. Did the diesels represent modernisation and a bouleversement, great change to a classless society?

 

[341o2]

I remember that Diesel also targeted James which contributed to his downfall after getting Duck removed from the railway.

Rusty was the opposite, the Skarloey railway took delivery of Duncan, an industrial engine who was arrogant and liked rock and roll. Rusty had been hauling a works train to repair the tracks and tried to advise Duncan of a couple of bad spots and to take care, but Duncan knew it all "silly old diesel" doing his rock and roll until he derailed. As Cowley mentioned, Rusty refused to go to Duncan's aid until he was reminded of the stranded passengers

 

[341o2]

Was the Reverend Awdry commenting on social class?

Henry the Big Engine might have been a rich tory who retreated into a tunnel (Estate).

The hard-working honest small engines (Percy, Thomas) represented the artisanal working class. Did the diesels represent modernisation and a bouleversement, great change to a classless society?

Thomas the tank engine has been called sexist as all the locomotives are male and the carriages female

 

[D6130]

Thomas the tank engine has been called sexist as all the locomotives are male and the carriages female

In that case presumably Daisy counts as a carriage. IIRC, the TV series tried to redress the balance with the blue female fire-fighting 2-6-4 tank engine, whose name I can't remember. Also there's Mavis, the tramway-fitted class 04 who works in the quarry and Emily, the GNR Stirling single.

 

[Cowley]

Another interesting bit part appearance of diesels is in the story of Oliver escaping to the island.
At one point on the journey he’s pictured hiding in a cutting with Isabelle and Toad whilst on the adjacent lines there’s a BR blue Cobo and what looks like an 08 looking for them (perhaps Diesel has been sent out as he knew how these people operated, a bit Gestapo like)…