Disabled passengers requiring assistance at a station Which is too busy to assist

[Blindtraveler]

I'm not naming or shaming individual stations here, but this is becoming a far more common occurrence in recent times where passengers requiring assistance to or from trains and platforms are being told by the station that they want to travel to that that station is too busy to assist them. Quite often. It's a case of hanging on 10 minutes and trying again, which is fine, but there have been a number of occasions this year when I've been refused assistance at a station which connects to a mainline National Rail terminus and have missed trains with advance tickets. As a result. London underground have been decidedly unhelpful when contacted afterwards about compensating me for the new tickets I've had to buy or the delay to my journey as a result of this and I'm just wondering what the answer is other than don't travel?

 

[rebmcr]

This is clearly LU's responsbility, fault, and blame — but I would hope that in such a situation, a National Rail ticket office (or onboard guard) would kindly endorse the back of your Advance ticket for use on a following departure, without having to pay for another, nor a rebooking fee.

 

[Kieran_MF135]

I'm not naming or shaming individual stations here, but this is becoming a far more common occurrence in recent times where passengers requiring assistance to or from trains and platforms are being told by the station that they want to travel to that that station is too busy to assist them. Quite often. It's a case of hanging on 10 minutes and trying again, which is fine, but there have been a number of occasions this year when I've been refused assistance at a station which connects to a mainline National Rail terminus and have missed trains with advance tickets. As a result. London underground have been decidedly unhelpful when contacted afterwards about compensating me for the new tickets I've had to buy or the delay to my journey as a result of this and I'm just wondering what the answer is other than don't travel?

I suggest contacting ringrose law as I have constant access issues with TFL also the advance ticket will still be Vaild due to refusal of assistance that is discrimination under the Equity act 2010 and reasonable adjustments needed to be met , I have had it happen to me before.

Keep in mind the equality act 2010 has 6 months limit so for compastion for injury to feeling for failing assistance and being put at disadvantage as compared to Albie body is discrimination.

I have had issues if the station isn't accibile then reasonable adjustments are needed this can be difficult route or train it even taxi at the railways expense.


This here is disgusting that they keep on doing and complaining to TFL does nothing hence why I'm forced to go through the courts if needed. Ringrose law disability discrimination they are fantastic at fighting for access rights I use them.


Also complain to the other train companies who have overcharged you due to fact you was subjective to discrimination by having assistance failed to be provided.

Too busy isn't really legal point of view I have caused over 10-20 mins delay due to staff busy who refused ramp on turn up and go and pre booked assistant on train. Or no show up at stations where I pull either red if I can reach or green depending on layout green worse case and only had to it once. I always pull red and then block doors with my chair into I'm off or on board due to the constant issues after issues especially when it last train of night.

In eyes of the law and the equality act renonable adjustment are needed and not put disbled passenger at disadvantage by refusing assistance they have breached the law and you shouldn't be due to them failing to provide assistance for you to travel your not expected to be recharged same as if delay happen your still allowed to travel on the next train.




If assistance fails and you are left stranded or unable to access the rail service you’ve booked, the rail service must provide a viable alternative. This can be a different train, bus or taxi, provided free of charge to get you to your destination or the next accessible leg of your journey.


Do not feel you are being an imposition or a hindrance to the companies, it is their duty and obligation to help you in your travels.

This is clearly LU's responsbility, fault, and blame — but I would hope that in such a situation, a National Rail ticket office (or onboard guard) would kindly endorse the back of your Advance ticket for use on a following departure, without having to pay for another, nor a rebooking fee.

In the law they wouldn't have to pay as assistance was failed to be provided and as such his ticket is still valid due to fact that he was left stranded and unable to access the rail services as booked.

This is discrimination and victimising behaviour and is disgusting.

In sush situation LU have broken the law and needs to ensure that he can travel to his destination at there expense they refused to provide assistance as result he missed his train and as result Lu are responsible for compensation for injury to feeling for discrimination under vanto bands.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I certainly don't feel like I'm being an imposition. But I have run up against a revenue protection officer just recently who was very unsympathetic and I do not want to find myself fighting a legal battle on the grounds of travelling with incorrect tickets. Simply because the national rail stations connecting underground station were too busy to provide me with assistance. I usually use e-tickets a lot of the time but the attitude I've generally had taken by station staff has been that I've missed my train and it's my problem. Some guards are okay but you can't always rely on Goodwill and especially if travelling longer distances. I'm led to understand that a lot of these issues are down to Station staff. Numbers. Being reduced again is not a situation I'm particularly comfortable with, but it is what it is. However, I just would love to know if these actions had even occurred to London underground as having wider knock-on effects, it's not as if it's part of the national rail system and I can't exactly show them a delayed Victoria line service on rtt and say I was held up because of this. Can I?

 

[Kieran_MF135]

I certainly don't feel like I'm being an imposition. But I have run up against a revenue protection officer just recently who was very unsympathetic and I do not want to find myself fighting a legal battle on the grounds of travelling with incorrect tickets. Simply because the national rail stations connecting underground station were too busy to provide me with assistance. I usually use e-tickets a lot of the time but the attitude I've generally had taken by station staff has been that I've missed my train and it's my problem. Some guards are okay but you can't always rely on Goodwill and especially if travelling longer distances. I'm led to understand that a lot of these issues are down to Station staff. Numbers. Being reduced again is not a situation I'm particularly comfortable with, but it is what it is. However, I just would love to know if these actions had even occurred to London underground as having wider knock-on effects, it's not as if it's part of the national rail system and I can't exactly show them a delayed Victoria line service on rtt and say I was held up because of this. Can I?

I have recently been penalty fared due to inaccbile station by revenue , also accbile travel means this I have once spent 40 mins to get assistance on underground on a journey that takes only about 15 mins on underground but needed ramp due to gap size and chair caster small.

Revenue are sometimes funny and rouge I was given penalty for it and fight it end day your entitled to stand your access rights and if TFL have put you at disadvantage then they need to fix it.

I even had issues on advance at station where staff forgot about me and missed my train and they tried to pull I must by new ticket when assistant failed as they refused ramp.

 

[357]

These issues are exactly the reason so many people end up traveling with a GoPro or similar camera.

I fully encourage those that do.

 

[Kieran_MF135]

These issues are exactly the reason so many people end up traveling with a GoPro or similar camera.

I fully encourage those that do.

Yep I do as evidence you receive Helps it annoying having to record each trip but when issues like this it no choice

 

[Mawkie]

I'm not naming or shaming individual stations here, but this is becoming a far more common occurrence in recent times where passengers requiring assistance to or from trains and platforms are being told by the station that they want to travel to that that station is too busy to assist them. Quite often. It's a case of hanging on 10 minutes and trying again...

You have my absolute sympathy here. As someone who regularly used to assist Visually and Mobility Impaired Persons at King's Cross as a CSA (and sometimes still do as a driver) I can confirm the service is not really fit for purpose. I would often get notification of a person requesting assistance and make my way to the platform to find 1 or 2 VIPs already waiting for someone else to escort them! I have 'daisychained' 3 VIPs at one point. Outrageous. (And could only happen as they were all exiting the station and wanted the Euston Road exit for the RNIB. It obviously wouldn't work for passengers interchanging.)

The system is so unreliable that I now (as a driver) log my radio into the arrival station's network to make sure I can hear the control room notifying a member of staff to assist the VIP/MIP upon my arrival at the station.

If no member of staff is waiting, I leave my cab and introduce myself as the driver and apologise that nobody is there to meet them. Then I contact the station to see what's happening. There is immense pressure to maintain the train service, so once it's confirmed someone is on the way to assist, I ask the passenger if they want me to stay with them - but I obviously need to do a series of things if I am to remain on the platform for any length of time. Sadly, most VIP/MIPs have been let down so often they know the score and once they have reassurance, they are usually content for me to depart. I have stayed on platforms with passengers until assistance has arrived though.

I'm afraid I can't offer any advice on the legality of the situations you have found yourself in, and that seems to have been covered by others already anyway. Without making excuses (as I find it inexcusable) LU have been declining for years and staff numbers have been reduced to point where there often simply aren't the amount of staff needed to do everything that passengers need us to do.

Not to suggest his experience was more important than your own, but I believe David Blunkett was also told there would be a 10 minute wait for assistance before he had his unfortunate incident recently, so these 'small' waits can have serious consequences for passenger safety. Hopefully high profile members of the Lords will be able to talk to the right people and be the catalyst for change.

Once again, you have my sympathy, it shouldn't happen, and as a business (and as a society) we shouldn't accept that it does happen.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I am one of the many who will thank a driver for at least letting them know and tell you to get on with your job. I have once recorded a weight of an hour on a platform at a particular station where I was being constantly told via the HealthPoint that someone would come but didn't. Thank you to all staff who work exceptionally hard to do a job that now sounds increasingly like it's undoable.

 

[starlight73]

I'm so sorry to hear about your experiences and how you both have been let down.

The website 'Which' mentions that you can try to get compensation under the Consumer Rights Act "if the service fell way below the standard you'd expect" or "you suffered reasonable additional costs". So if you have an unreasonably long wait for assistance at a station, and then had to pay to continue your journey, that might count. I've put the full quote from Which at the end of this post.

TfL's step-free access map tells disabled passengers to allow extra time, but they don't give a concrete figure for how much time to allow, so it's an annoying grey area.

Please allow time for staff to use a boarding or mini ramp. If platforms and trains are busy, it may take a while before there is space to get on the train.

It's annoying that there seems to be no policy about honoring tickets if there's disruption on TfL, particularly for disabled passengers. And separately, that penalty fare rules don't account for disabled people who couldn't get off the train if assistance wasn't provided...

If TfL or a mainline rail company haven't resolved a complaint to your satisfaction you can try contacting London Travelwatch, the Rail Ombudsman, or Simon Lightwood (lead minister for disability at the DfT).

If booked assistance fails to turn up on national rail, you are entitled to "appropriate redress" (i.e. hopefully compensation). This is required by the Office for Road and Rail's accessible travel policy, page 39 (PDF). Just mentioning in case anyone else reading this thread is unaware. London Underground don't appear to have a similar policy.

Quote from Which mentioned at the start of my post:

You can use the [Consumer Rights] act if you've suffered a financial loss because the train company has failed to deliver its service with 'reasonable care and skill', for example:

1. If you’ve waited a disproportionate length of time, but don’t qualify for compensation under the train company’s compensation scheme. For example, you waited 25 minutes to make a 10-minute journey.
2. If your service fell way below the standard you’d expect. For example, you might have had to travel on a severely overcrowded train because there were too few carriages were available.
3. If you suffered reasonable additional losses or costs (outside of the cost of your ticket), which train companies do not openly offer compensation for. For example, due to a delay or cancellation you may have missed a connecting journey and had to pay for an alternative service.

You can also claim back any additional out-of-pocket expenses you’ve suffered because of your train being delayed or cancelled.

Link to source

 

[Blindtraveler]

London travel watch have already been made aware of the issues and have not been a great deal of help. I appreciate the various help and support with the consumer end of things, but I'm already very well cleared up on it, but there appear to be a sufficiently large number of loopholes that tfl think they can get through and the overriding attitude seems to be at the moment that I should be grateful that I'm being helped at all. Not sure if I should have expected better or not, but there you go

 

[Kieran_MF135]

London travel watch have already been made aware of the issues and have not been a great deal of help. I appreciate the various help and support with the consumer end of things, but I'm already very well cleared up on it, but there appear to be a sufficiently large number of loopholes that tfl think they can get through and the overriding attitude seems to be at the moment that I should be grateful that I'm being helped at all. Not sure if I should have expected better or not, but there you go

Have you been disabled by the railway? - Ringrose Law

For disabled people, using public transport around the UK can be a stressful, dehumanising and somewhat terrifying ordeal. Despite the legal obligation to ensure accessibility …

www.ringroselaw.co.uk

Ringrose law disability discrimination

There no loopholes in being able to refuse assistance and not make reasonable adjustments if station to busy and there unavailable to give assistance then taxi at there expense to nearest accibile station or destination station, for example this is otherwise discrimination I have had it where Ramps or staff not able to show me or help me to get to my destination and policy in place is to send taxi at there expense I had few myself when ramps where available due to staff shortages or lift failure but does take standing up for basic access rights ,
I don't mind waiting 5-10 mins to ensure other stations can help but when they say 40+ min or longer then that is inaccbile for renonable adjustment I currently have two open cases against TFL for discrimination due to constant access failures.

Asking for basic access to service shouldn't be issue at all it right everyone deserves.

 

[Travelmonkey]

With anything LU related I've given up asking for help as I know they take one look at me and then just point where I need to go, it seems to be more of a hassle in zone 1 to try and get help, and then when you do mention your booked assist staff are very put out by doing things. I know on the Elizabeth line it's a NR line but has LU pitfalls where I'm just glad the core is level.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I'm pretty tolerant but it's only when trying to access a station that I need to use as an interchange point for an onward rail, bus coach or air journey. And finding this is not possible or is possible but only after a significant delay which would result in impact to my onward travel plans that I have the issue. Customer services. Of course when you contact them to complain, just give you a cut paste response and are seemingly incapable of escalating it further

 

[bcarmicle]

Maybe try contacting your MP or London Assembly member? I suspect they'll just get fobbed off by TfL but there's a chance.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I did actually contact my MP a couple of weeks ago, obviously he'll have been off on his Christmas holidays and he doesn't like me very much anyway as I've disagree with him on a few things but shouldn't in theory stop him attempting to help I live in Kent so London assembly doesn't apply sadly