Do all stations with 3 letters only in the name have identical CRS code?

[miklcct]

I am developing an application which has input fields for stations. My design is to accept CRS code or the full station name at the same field.

Do all stations with 3 letters only in the name in the whole National Rail network, such as Ash, IBM, have identical CRS code?

 

[pelli]

The National Rail Enquiries Station Codes List contains 8 stations whose names are 3 letters: Ash, Ayr, Ely, IBM, Ore, Par, Wem, Wye. All their station codes are equal to their name.

There are two station names with a "(" in the 5th position: Lee (London), Rye (Sussex). Their station codes are equal to the first part of their name.

There are many more station names with a space in the 4th position. Only two of them have the station code maching the first word: Old Street and Pye Corner. (The full list is: Ash Vale, Bat & Ball, Ben Rhydding, Bow Brickhill, Cam & Dursley, Hag Fold, Ham Street, How Wood (Herts), Kew Bridge, Kew Gardens, Lea Bridge, Lea Green, Lea Hall, Low Moor, New Barnet, New Beckenham, New Brighton, New Clee, New Cross, New Cross Gate, New Cumnock, New Eltham, New Holland, New Hythe, New Lane, New Malden, New Mills Central, New Mills Newtown, New Milton, New Pudsey, New Southgate, Old Hill, Old Roan, Old Street, Pye Corner, Roy Bridge, Rye House, Sea Mills, The Hawthorns, The Lakes (Warks), Ton Pentre.)

 

[pdeaves]

The short answer is 'yes'. It would be fun for a new three-letter station not to have a matching name/code set (like a hypothetical place called 'Hag', but the code HAG is used by Hagley so something would have to give somewhere).

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The short answer is 'yes'. It would be fun for a new three-letter station not to have a matching name/code set (like a hypothetical place called 'Hag', but the code HAG is used by Hagley so something would have to give somewhere).

Indeed. Hag Fold is HGF and Haggerston is HGG.

 

[miklcct]

The National Rail Enquiries Station Codes List contains 8 stations whose names are 3 letters: Ash, Ayr, Ely, IBM, Ore, Par, Wem, Wye. All their station codes are equal to their name.

There are two station names with a "(" in the 5th position: Lee (London), Rye (Sussex). Their station codes are equal to the first part of their name.

There are many more station names with a space in the 4th position. Only two of them have the station code maching the first word: Old Street and Pye Corner. (The full list is: Ash Vale, Bat & Ball, Ben Rhydding, Bow Brickhill, Cam & Dursley, Hag Fold, Ham Street, How Wood (Herts), Kew Bridge, Kew Gardens, Lea Bridge, Lea Green, Lea Hall, Low Moor, New Barnet, New Beckenham, New Brighton, New Clee, New Cross, New Cross Gate, New Cumnock, New Eltham, New Holland, New Hythe, New Lane, New Malden, New Mills Central, New Mills Newtown, New Milton, New Pudsey, New Southgate, Old Hill, Old Roan, Old Street, Pye Corner, Roy Bridge, Rye House, Sea Mills, The Hawthorns, The Lakes (Warks), Ton Pentre.)

Thank you for your reply. My application logic will work.

 

[etr221]

The short answer is 'yes'. It would be fun for a new three-letter station not to have a matching name/code set (like a hypothetical place called 'Hag', but the code HAG is used by Hagley so something would have to give somewhere).

Perhaps the question to ask is - if this happened, would the code for Hagley be changed, or would 'Hag' be given a non matching CRS code? Which would cause more hassle? Has anything been laid down as to what the answer will be?

What is the reason for Lee and Rye (quoted above) having bracketed identifiers? (Although there aren't another Lee or Rye)

Unless it is part of the CRS specification that three letter station names will be matched to CRS codes, then there is a possibility that at some point one won't be: and miklcct needs to consider the implications for his app. Assuming that they always will might come back and bite him... (and probably many other app developers)

 

[pdeaves]

What is the reason for Lee and Rye (quoted above) having bracketed identifiers? (Although there aren't another Lee or Rye)

In part to reduce confusion and possible attempts at fraudulent use with (in this case) Lye. It makes it harder to alter a ticket.

 

[paul1609]

What is the reason for Lee and Rye (quoted above) having bracketed identifiers? (Although there aren't another Lee or Rye)

Im told that Rye (Sussex) is to avoid confusion with Ryde (IOW).
I was sceptical that this was the case until I saw a GA ticket machine at Southend Airport warning me that a ticket to Rye was not valid via the Hovercraft. The local Rye secondary school headteacher is from Birmingham and he admitted he originally applied for the interview on the grounds that he liked the idea of living on the isle of wight.
There is also of course Rye House in South London.

 

[XAM2175]

I was sceptical that this was the case until I saw a GA ticket machine at Southend Airport warning me that a ticket to Rye was not valid via the Hovercraft. The local Rye secondary school headteacher is from Birmingham and he admitted he originally applied for the interview on the grounds that he liked the idea of living on the isle of wight.

I've been shown the not-valid-via-Hoverport advice while buying tickets entirely within Strathclyde, and I'm fairly sure I've seen it mentioned here by a poster in the West Midlands, so I don't think it's quite the smoking gun you think it is!

(but the headteacher story is a good laugh )

 

[Springs Branch]

Im told that Rye (Sussex) is to avoid confusion with Ryde (IOW). . . . . . .The local Rye secondary school headteacher is from Birmingham and he admitted he originally applied for the interview on the grounds that he liked the idea of living on the isle of wight.

Hopefully before he got that promotion to headmaster, he wasn't a geography teacher!

 

[ThisIsSurbiton]

I don't think it's quite the smoking gun you think it is!

It isn't! Southsea Hoverport is the single location that should be avoided on an Any Permitted fare. This was supposed to be 'internal' data only used to validate a journey, but some ticket machines, certainly the S&B ones, would show it. RDG later published a note reminding people not to show any of this and stick to the route's description "Travel is allowed via any permitted route"

 

[Cricketer8for9]

And I hope Paul1609 isn’t one either as Rye House is in Hertfordshire not South London.

 

[pdeaves]

if this happened, would the code for Hagley be changed, or would 'Hag' be given a non matching CRS code?

I would suspect that, in the case of our pretend station 'Hag' joining the network, it would actually be named in the form 'Hag (Countyshire)', giving a bunch more letters to choose. Simpler to make something that doesn't exist yet fit in, than do that and change something somewhere else with all the associated hassles and risks.

 

[miklcct]

Perhaps the question to ask is - if this happened, would the code for Hagley be changed, or would 'Hag' be given a non matching CRS code? Which would cause more hassle? Has anything been laid down as to what the answer will be?

What is the reason for Lee and Rye (quoted above) having bracketed identifiers? (Although there aren't another Lee or Rye)

Unless it is part of the CRS specification that three letter station names will be matched to CRS codes, then there is a possibility that at some point one won't be: and miklcct needs to consider the implications for his app. Assuming that they always will might come back and bite him... (and probably many other app developers)

If it happens I will need to create separate fields for CRS input or station name input instead.

 

[edwin_m]

If it happens I will need to create separate fields for CRS input or station name input instead.

The National Rail journey planner, and probably others too, allow input of either a CRS or a station name in the same field. So you're probably safe, as they would have to change too if anything like that happened. Does the same organisation that runs National Rail website also hold the master list of CRS codes and dole them out for new stations?

 

[SargeNpton]

The National Rail journey planner, and probably others too, allow input of either a CRS or a station name in the same field. So you're probably safe, as they would have to change too if anything like that happened. Does the same organisation that runs National Rail website also hold the master list of CRS codes and dole them out for new stations?

The master list of five* different series of location codes are held in a database known as CORPUS, with a cross-reference between each series. For those systems that take a CORPUS download it does mean that once CORPUS is updated with new/revised data all the other systems fall into line.

Unfortunately, there are a few systems that think they can make a better job of creating the code lists than CORPUS, with the inevitable mistakes creeping in.

* National Location Code, CRS Code, TIPLOC, STANOX, UIC

 

[VideozVideoz]

Indeed. Hag Fold is HGF and Haggerston is HGG.

I think there should be a station name called Old Hag

 

[Crossover]

I've been shown the not-valid-via-Hoverport advice while buying tickets entirely within Strathclyde, and I'm fairly sure I've seen it mentioned here by a poster in the West Midlands, so I don't think it's quite the smoking gun you think it is!

(but the headteacher story is a good laugh )

I have had the Not Via Hovercraft restriction appear buying a ticket from Dewsbury to Huddersfield, as well!

 

[zero]

In terms of application logic, if I type 3 letters, where there is ambiguity I would prefer a drop down menu to show the CRS first and then any other stations with that combination of letters in the name. I get annoyed when other sites display all the results, including the one with the CRS I have just entered, in alphabetical order. For true usability there could even be fuzzy matching so that similar sounding/spelled stations show up further down.

It shouldn't be hard to do this, I have made one for currencies and currency codes. The default should be to use CRS if the user skips the drop-down menu. Also the drop down menu should tell me the CRS of any displayed options so that I can remember it (should I wish to) for future use.

 

[BayPaul]

Another option for the mythical Hag Station would be something like HGX or HGZ. I've seen these used in similar three letter abbreviations (and indeed for the crossrail stations) and they don't seem to cause much confusion.