Dodging the fare

[bossstein]

I was recently stopped by a train guard and asked to present a ticket. The ticket I had presented on the Trainline app was shorter than my current journey. I had paid for stevenage to hitchen on the thameslink rather than from finsbury park. When asked why this had happened I shrugged my shoulders and when asked if it was intentional I said no, which was a lie. This is a journey I have made before over the last three months using the Trainline app paying for a deliberately shorter journey. Probably a total of £350 in unpaid fares. I received nothing in the post but I tried to go ahead and pay what I assumed to be a fine online anyway and I was informed that my case had been handed to the prosecutions team and that I will need to wait to receive a letter from them. Obviously I have only myself to blame in this case and I don't think it's worth me trying to lie. I am just posting here because I hope that you guys will just be able to tell me what I can expect from the process going forward.

 

[Titfield]

From the advice which expert forum member @Hadders gives in cases such as this, adapted for your circumstances.

Travelling without a ticket that covers your full journey is a criminal offence and GTR are entitled to prosecute you in the Magistrates Court if they want to. Generally speaking most Train Operating Companies are normally reasonable to deal with and will normally offer an out of court settlement in cases like this as long as you co-operate with them, and haven't come to their attention before.

What happens next is they will write to you saying they have received a report and are considering prosecuting you. This letter can take some weeks to arrive due to the number of cases in progress at any one point in time.

I suggest a short, concise reply that mentions:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

If you are offered an out of court settlement expect to have to pay the outstanding fares at the full Anytime rate, with no credit given for the invalid tickets you purchased in addition to an admin fee, typically £150. GTR will search your online ticket purchasing history to see if you have done this before and if this indicates you have done this before they will factor in the cost of these journeys into the settlement fee.

Paying a settlement might feel like paying a fine but technically it isn't. Only a court can impose a fine as a punishment upon conviction so you don't want to pay a fine, you want to pay a settlement!

When the letter from GTR arrives post a redacted copy of it in this thread, along with your draft reply, and forum members will proof read it for you.

Do not use AI to write the letter as such letters invariably sound insincere. You do not have to give or explain the reasons for shortfaring as it is understood to be saving money for one reason or another.

 

[Puffing Devil]

I was recently stopped by a train guard and asked to present a ticket. The ticket I had presented on the Trainline app was shorter than my current journey. I had paid for stevenage to hitchen on the thameslink rather than from finsbury park. When asked why this had happened I shrugged my shoulders and when asked if it was intentional I said no, which was a lie. This is a journey I have made before over the last three months using the Trainline app paying for a deliberately shorter journey. Probably a total of £350 in unpaid fares. I received nothing in the post but I tried to go ahead and pay what I assumed to be a fine online anyway and I was informed that my case had been handed to the prosecutions team and that I will need to wait to receive a letter from them. Obviously I have only myself to blame in this case and I don't think it's worth me trying to lie. I am just posting here because I hope that you guys will just be able to tell me what I can expect from the process going forward.

Let's see if I understand this:

• You were stopped by a train guard and asked for your ticket.
• The ticket on your Trainline app was for a shorter journey (Stevenage to Hitchin) than the one you were taking (Finsbury Park to Hitchin on Thameslink).
• You admitted the ticket was shorter but falsely denied it was intentional.
• You have been intentionally underpaying for this journey using the Trainline app for the past three months, totalling approximately £350 in unpaid fares.
• After being stopped, you attempted to pay what you assumed was a fine online.
• You were informed that your case has been passed to the prosecution team.

What seems to be missing is how you knew you had a fine to pay online and how you became aware that the matter had been referred to the prosecution team.

It will help the forum experts if you could post copies of any paperwork, emails, etc. you have about this. Remove your name, address and any references before sharing. When we have this, you should get more specific advice.

 

[bossstein]

I am travelling next week and as such I was keen to resolve the issue before I left. I tried to search for the online portal and enter my witness statement receipt and the portal told me I cannot pay. I phoned the number given and was told I need to email the prosecution team. Which I did saying:

I was told by the member of staff that I would need to pay a fine within 21 days. I am leaving the country for two weeks this Monday and therefore I am a little concerned that I have not yet received any communications from you as I would like to settle the matter before I leave. Can you give me any information about when I may expect to hear from you.

They replied saying.

You were issued a witness statement this report comes to us in the prosecution department to review and at this time no payment has been offered you will need to reply to the letter we send out asking about the day you were issued with the statement, this will not be within 21 days that is only for penalty fares.

 

[AlterEgo]

They replied saying.

You were issued a witness statement this report comes to us in the prosecution department to review and at this time no payment has been offered you will need to reply to the letter we send out asking about the day you were issued with the statement, this will not be within 21 days that is only for penalty fares.

Indeed, you aren't being penalty fared here. They've reported you for prosecution in order to potentially prosecute (or more likely settle for a higher sum) for the offence, which can't be disposed of by way of penalty fare because it's blatant fare evasion rather than an error.

What will happen next is you will receive a letter which you need to reply to; this can take several weeks to arrive but it will need a reply from you if you wish to settle the matter out of court. Come back to us when it arrives and we can help you draft a response to mitigate the damage.

This barely literate single-sentence, stream-of-consciousness missive from GTR doesn't explain this very well, because they possibly believe only one comma can be used in a sentence and clearly have never heard of a semicolon. I find the level of English language literacy some of these people have astounding, yet they are tasked with reading and understanding witness statements as well as correspondence in one's defence.

 

[bossstein]

Thank you all for your help and I will do as you say.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you all for your help and I will do as you say.

I would strongly suggest you put in place a process for your hard copy post to be checked by someone you can reply on during the period you are out of the court country - so that they can open any post and scan and send you a copy - this is because the letters they send require a reply within 14 days of the date they posted it (or maybe 21 if lucky) - not the date you got it.

Fail to respond to the railway company means the matter would be escalated to prosecution in court automatically, which it should be your objective to try and avoid if possible - as a consequence it is vital you receive the letter and can reply to it (you are usually required to reply on hard copy too) - so factor all this in to your plans to be away from your postal address.

 

[swt_passenger]

@WesternLancer - I think you’ve typed “court” when you meant country?

 

[WesternLancer]

@WesternLancer - I think you’ve typed “court” when you meant country?

Many thanks for flagging this - now corrected.

 

[bossstein]

I would strongly suggest you put in place a process for your hard copy post to be checked by someone you can reply on during the period you are out of the court country - so that they can open any post and scan and send you a copy - this is because the letters they send require a reply within 14 days of the date they posted it (or maybe 21 if lucky) - not the date you got it.

Fail to respond to the railway company means the matter would be escalated to prosecution in court automatically, which it should be your objective to try and avoid if possible - as a consequence it is vital you receive the letter and can reply to it (you are usually required to reply on hard copy too) - so factor all this in to your plans to be away from your postal address.

There will be someone there to check my post. What do you mean by hard copy too. Do you mean I have to reply with a hard copy or with an email and a hard copy in addition?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

There will be someone there to check my post. What do you mean by hard copy too. Do you mean I have to reply with a hard copy or with an email and a hard copy in addition?

Yes both

 

[WesternLancer]

What do you mean by hard copy too. Do you mean I have to reply with a hard copy or with an email and a hard copy in addition?

If it is Thameslink / Govia Thameslink railway (GTR) their Prosecution Department only accepts responses by hard copy post IIRC (it will be stated in how you must reply in the letter they send you - but you can see examples of the usual type of letter they typically send out in other threads where people have uploaded them)

The advice on here is that you should then post it back using UK tracked postage from a local post office so that you can be sure - and prove if needed - that they received it.

You need to appreciate that the process you are now involved in is one which ultimately has the potential to end up with your being taken to the magistrates court charged with a criminal offence, which if found guilty results in a court fine, costs and a criminal record.

The good news is this can usually be avoided if you co-operate with the railway company GTR - but that co-operation means being prepared for their process and complying with the way they operate that process - which is a formal one. That is how best to avoid being prosecuted from what we see on this forum (plenty of GTR cases for you to look over to get an idea of things).