Does your layout run a fish train?

[Sun Chariot]

I've recently been getting into fish. I don't mean I've turned  pescatarian - I mean, I've been digesting online resources about UK dedicated fish trains of the LMS, LNER and early Nationalisation. These sites whetted my appetite for fish:

Fish Train: The 7 o’clock Brit. | Steaming Back to Kirkby

kirkbysteam.co.uk

Fish traffic - Steve Banks

Railway historical research (all companies) especially workings on the LNER and BR. Railway modelling of coaches and carriages on a professional basis.

www.steve-banks.org

Spurred on by lner.info and RMweb, I've set myself a project: a modest (c.15 wagons) OO fish train, before the "Blue Spot" wagons era. A notional service from Grimsby / Hull, with fish containers for Heysham (for Isle of Man), plus consignments in vans for Morecambe, Preston, Fylde coast and Blackpool.

I'm accumulating fish stock: 1930s fish vans (by Bachmann, Cambrian, Parkside), Conflats with BR insulated containers (Bach), plus two "interlopers" - an ex-GWR fish van (Ian Kirk, Colin Ashby) and an ex-GNR insulated van (Rapido).

Plenty to keep me busy for these dark months ahead. Now I need motivating - by photos of your models.
So - who's got fish on the go?

 

[Gloster]

The blood and custard site has an article on Blue Spot vans on the East Coast.

 

[Sun Chariot]

The blood and custard site has an article on Blue Spot vans on the East Coast.

Indeed and I found many good resources with d.214 / d.800 / d.801 "blue spot" vans.
I am deliberately focusing prior to those: with ex-LNER d.83 / d.94 / d.134, ex-LMS d.2059 / d.1663, BR AFs on Conflat A/S, plus the two interlopers of ex-GWR S6 and the ex-GNR d.113.

 

[Iskra]

I don't have a fish train, but a fish van does feature on my BR steam sleeper trains, I believe this was prototypical on at least one BR sleeper working.

 

[Sun Chariot]

The BR (ScR) 1970s to early 1980s era had some wonderful "time warp" operations - perishables van(s) attached to Kyle and West Highland services, steam heat 37s on passenger & sleeper services to those routes and the Far North.
My first trip that far, was August 1988; a lot had gone, or was going. 156s were making themselves known (we had a 37/4 for Kyle but not the other lines). 303s were common but we only found three of them unrefurbished. I think we saw only one 311. 20s and 26s made rare appearances - one revenue earning freight, the rest were civil engineer turns.
By 1990 summer's Scotland Rover, the 37s had relinquished passenger workings - all 156 and 158 units instead. 47s still hauled Inverness turns. We did snare the 104 Mexican Bean (104 325), on death row at MC Metals.

 

[eastwestdivide]

On an all-line rover in ~1979/1980, our early morning 26-hauled Inverness-Aberdeen train had a (smelly) fish van in the formation of Mk1s.

 

[Gloster]

In 1977 I came south on the Far North with a fish van (from Wick, I think) first in the formation: it was a hot day and water was pouring out of it all the way. The next morning I took the first DMU to Keith and sat in the rearmost seats so I could see the line unfurl behind me…or so I hoped. Once we started I realised that we weren’t just buffered up to the same fish van as the day before, but coupled to it: my view was not so interesting.

 

[Sun Chariot]

On an all-line rover in ~1979/1980, our early morning 26-hauled Inverness-Aberdeen train had a (smelly) fish van in the formation of Mk1s.

Evocative! The waft of a Sulzer 8-pot's belching exhaust, with pungent pollock!

In 1977 I came south on the Far North with a fish van (from Wick, I think) first in the formation: it was a hot day and water was pouring out of it all the way. The next morning I took the first DMU to Keith and sat in the rearmost seats so I could see the line unfurl behind me…or so I hoped. Once we started I realised that we weren’t just buffered up to the same fish van as the day before, but coupled to it: my view was not so interesting.

Your mention of water pouring out - it's conjured up a mental image, of a fishy breeze! By then, the SPVs were parcels and general merchandise, weren't they?

 

[Gloster]

Your mention of water pouring out - it's conjured up a mental image, of a fishy breeze! By then, the SPVs were parcels and general merchandise, weren't they?

No, I think that this was still a fish movement, probably one of the very last. It may have been a fish van or it may have been an SPV carrying boxed fish, although it is quite possible that a handful were officially or unofficially kept in a pool for this noxious traffic.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Found a 1980 photo of a Wick/Thurso service with fish van on flickr:

Evening departure

The evening Wick/Thurso - Inverness train pulls away from Golspie on 26 June 1980 at 19:55. 26 015 is on the front and the train includes a fish van behind the loco, and a selection of mk1 coaches including first class compartments and a full buffet car. Even though it was 36 years ago I can...

www.flickr.com

And another

Golspie

Southbound evening train prepares to leave Golspie behind 26 015, on 26 June 1980. Note the fish van included in the passenger train.

www.flickr.com

 

[Sun Chariot]

Oh yes, those photos were on another thread I read.

Fish Vans — Diagrams and Workings

I have had a read up online and have gathered that 275 fish vans were retrofitted with Timken bearings, and given the lovable blue spot. Are there any significant differences between the many diagrams of the fish van apart from LNER vs. BR clasp brake? I see a visual difference in that some have ...

www.rmweb.co.uk

 

[Iskra]

Some fantastic memories of fish vans in passenger workings there all Thanks to those who took the time to find photo's too!

 

[gazthomas]

As an aside, I was in Japan last week and I watched JR West railway staff load boxes of freshly landed fish into a Shinkansen for delivery to Tokyo. That would make an interesting diorama

 

[Iskra]

As an aside, I was in Japan last week and I watched JR West railway staff load boxes of freshly landed fish into a Shinkansen for delivery to Tokyo. That would make an interesting diorama

I don't know if it still does, but I think this used to happen on HST's in Cornwall and possibly the Night Riviera or one of the post-privatisation Scottish sleeper services too.

 

[Sun Chariot]

I don't know if it still does, but I think this used to happen on HST's in Cornwall and possibly the Night Riviera or one of the post-privatisation Scottish sleeper services too.

That smell was my hung-out socks. Sorry.

 

[4COR]

I've never seen anything about any fish traffic in the south east which always struck me as a little odd given there are a lot of ports in Kent and on the south coast within easy reach of London markets. Was there simply no enough fish, or was it because it was close enough to market that it didn't need so much in the way of cooling/insulation?

 

[Sun Chariot]

I've never seen anything about any fish traffic in the south east which always struck me as a little odd given there are a lot of ports in Kent and on the south coast within easy reach of London markets. Was there simply no enough fish, or was it because it was close enough to market that it didn't need so much in the way of cooling/insulation?

The catches followed the fish movements and migrations -
Feeding and breeding cycle for herring, for example, meant they'd move around the top, then down the east side, of the UK as their annual season progressed.
Some fish stocks only gathered in certain water conditions: salinity and food supply.
Also some areas, such as along south coast, simply do not generate stocks of fish sufficient for the humans' demand.

 

[4COR]

The catches followed the fish movements and migrations -
Feeding and breeding cycle for herring, for example, meant they'd move around the top, then down the east side, of the UK as their annual season progressed.
Some fish stocks only gathered in certain water conditions: salinity and food supply.
Also some areas, such as along south coast, simply do not generate stocks of fish sufficient for the humans' demand.

Ok - so lack of catch it is! I know Brixham which is a lot further SW had fish traffic (and still is an important port for fish), but even that wasn't enough to save the Brixham-Churston branch.

 

[gg1]

Found a 1980 photo of a Wick/Thurso service with fish van on flickr:

Evening departure

The evening Wick/Thurso - Inverness train pulls away from Golspie on 26 June 1980 at 19:55. 26 015 is on the front and the train includes a fish van behind the loco, and a selection of mk1 coaches including first class compartments and a full buffet car. Even though it was 36 years ago I can...

www.flickr.com

And another

Golspie

Southbound evening train prepares to leave Golspie behind 26 015, on 26 June 1980. Note the fish van included in the passenger train.

www.flickr.com

Interesting that the van's marshalled directly behind the loco. Obviously not needed in this June example but were they through piped for steam heating to allow the same formation in colder months?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I've recently been getting into fish.

All sounds rather fishy?!

So, what do model (OO gauge) fish vans from the relevant era look like? Is there all that much variety?

 

[Iskra]

All sounds rather fishy?!

So, what do model (OO gauge) fish vans from the relevant era look like? Is there all that much variety?

Mine just looks like a regular van, seen here upsetting the First Class passengers. The most known sort of course would be white (ish) with a blue spot on them.

 

[Sun Chariot]

All sounds rather fishy?!

So, what do model (OO gauge) fish vans from the relevant era look like? Is there all that much variety?

Here's this month's "fish haul". My overall train's consist will comprise 15 fish-use wagons, of 9 different designs; plus a brake van.
All vary slightly: wheelbase, or length, or height, or doors, or steel vs planked ends.
Two in maroon (ex-LMS fish vans), one in crimson (ex-GWR van), one white (ex-LNER), 3 white AF containers, the others in bauxite and all in varying states of filth.

Interesting that the van's marshalled directly behind the loco. Obviously not needed in this June example but were they through piped for steam heating to allow the same formation in colder months?

Indeed they were

BloodandCustard - Fish by rail - Blue Spot fish vans

 

[4COR]

Here's this month's "fish haul". My overall train's consist will comprise 15 fish-use wagons, of 9 different designsp; lus a brake van.

Excellent - good to see kits ready to build! Please let me know how the Cambrian vans go together as I will need lots of generic 12T vans at some point and had my eye on that model.

@Sun Chariot I have transfers for one PC56 and one PC59 (from early BR era) from Cambridge Custom Transfers which you're welcome to if you're interested? (was part of the Parkside full sheet) - I'm a Southern Region modeller and we've already established I don't need fish vans!

Mine just looks like a regular van, seen here upsetting the First Class passengers. The most known sort of course would be white (ish) with a blue spot on them.

View attachment 166319

This is a super looking scene!

 

[Sun Chariot]

Many thanks @4COR for your kind offer. I've actually ordered John Isherwood's fish sheet covering all the kits I'm doing. I'll patch those pre-built dia 134 vans, with 1950s era numbers.

Cambrian's kits typically go together a dream . I & brother assembled many, in the 1980s. Mermaids, Grampus, Sharks. All parts fitted tight, alll ran well.

Mine just looks like a regular van, seen here upsetting the First Class passengers. The most known sort of course would be white (ish) with a blue spot on them.

View attachment 166319

That photo oozes an exquisite "train in the landscape" feel, which is missing from so many layouts I see. Brilliant stuff @Iskra

 

[Iskra]

Here's this month's "fish haul". My overall train's consist will comprise 15 fish-use wagons, of 9 different designs; plus a brake van.
All vary slightly: wheelbase, or length, or height, or doors, or steel vs planked ends.
Two in maroon (ex-LMS fish vans), one in crimson (ex-GWR van), one white (ex-LNER), 3 white AF containers, the others in bauxite and all in varying states of filth.


Indeed they were

BloodandCustard - Fish by rail - Blue Spot fish vans

I’m looking forward to seeing the completed rake!

And thanks both

 

[Gloster]

A bit of rooting around (a trawl of my books, you might say) suggests that there was once some fairly regular fish traffic from Padstow: there were pathways for trains up the North Cornwall line. The LSWR mostly used open trucks, but also some goods vans. The traffic seems to have declined through the 1920s and early 1930s, but may have continued a bit longer, even into BR days, as the occasional standard van on a regular perishable service. It is all a bit vague as nobody was interested in those days.

 

[4COR]

Many thanks @4COR for your kind offer. I've actually ordered John Isherwood's fish sheet covering all the kits I'm doing. I'll patch those pre-built dia 134 vans, with 1950s era numbers.

Definitely in for a penny in for a pound then! Look forward to seeing the fish rake develop!

 

[Sun Chariot]

Definitely in for a penny in for a pound then! Look forward to seeing the fish rake develop!

Actually can I be cheeky and take you up on your kind offered two transfers from your CCT sheet?
John Isherwood's BL51 set has 26 running numbers; but they are spread across 23 different wagon diagrams. It might only provide me 1 or 2 numbers for d. 134 (as built) and d. 2059. I have 6 of d.134.
If you're still OK for me to relieve you of the two you have, by all means PM me. Thanks in advance.

I'm still reading up on weathering powders and "pre-shading" - which sounds counter intuitive but looks rather good.

 

[4COR]

Actually can I be cheeky and take you up on your kind offered two transfers from your CCT sheet?
John Isherwood's BL51 set has 26 running numbers; but they are spread across 23 different wagon diagrams. It might only provide me 1 or 2 numbers for d. 134 (as built) and d. 2059. I have 6 of d.134.
If you're still OK for me to relieve you of the two you have, by all means PM me. Thanks in advance.

I'm still reading up on weathering powders and "pre-shading" - which sounds counter intuitive but looks rather good.

Absolutely - I can drop you a PM with the numbers to confirm they are not duplicates!

 

[xotGD]

I started my collection of models representing stock on the KWVR with a homage to their three Blue Spot fish vans:



The same seller was also offering another example, minus the spot: