Don't take Neath off the main railway-line. #KeepNeathOnTrack

[Gareth Marston]

Just come across this on the Wales Rail Twitter feeds.

Goes to show some people believe whats written in local newspapers? They cant afford to electrify the existing line so where is the £ to divert the mainline around Neath!

https://www.change.org/p/welsh-gove...tm_campaign=share_petition&utm_term=fb_dialog

Bethan Phillips started this petition to Welsh Government and 1 other
For the attention of Welsh Government Minister for Economy and Transport, Ken Skates
CC... UK Government Minister for Transport, Chris Grayling.

Dear Government Minister(s),

I draw your attention to the recent news that suggests that Neath will be taken off the main railway line from Swansea to London Paddington.

I am not in favour of this decision because I believe that taking Neath off the main line would have a detrimental effect to the economy and re-generation of our town. The station is already run-down and a hub for anti-social behaviour. Taking Neath off the main line would only worsen these problems.

It would also have a negative impact on those who commute on the main-line to work, meaning they would have to take an extra connection to Swansea, Baglan or Port Talbot first.

Recent figures via research conducted by Plaid Cymru Councillor for Neath South Jamie Evans has found that:

• Around 830,000 passengers used Neath train station a year, making it the second busiest station, behind Swansea in the historic county of West Glamorgan and busiest of the five stations in Neath Port Talbot.
• The plans to remove Neath from the main line would mean commuters travelling to Cardiff from Neath would have to first catch a train to Swansea, Baglan or Port Talbot, meaning an increase in both cost and time taken to get to and from work.
• People from Neath, Pontardawe, Skewen, Glynneath and the Dulais Valley would see no benefit at all from the “10 minutes” saved on a journey between Swansea and Cardiff.

I would gratefully ask you to reject this proposal.

 

[Dhassell]

Oh my... What plonkers....

 

[Envoy]

It’s another of Mark Barry’s ‘schemes’.https://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/man-behind-vision-south-wales-13380545

Perhaps he can explain how the new short cut (avoiding Neath) line will get into Swansea? It possibly could have happened before all the new development by the docks but now that blocks any possible route - unless he proposes to knock down the old streets in the Port Tennant area just north of the main road? Here is the Google map of the area with Swansea station just to the left of the map. Zoom down - look at Streetview.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.6219212,-3.9136819,2571m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e1

 

[Gareth Marston]

It’s another of Mark Barry’s ‘schemes’.https://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/man-behind-vision-south-wales-13380545

This one seems to be progressing as well as the metro!

 

[CardiffKid]

This is what happens with substandard journalism and crowd sourcing petition sites.

It's a Plaid Cymru petition. The flyers people are holding up in the photo have Plaid's logo on it and the petition includes some figures 'obtained' by a local councillor.

 

[Gareth Marston]

This is what happens with substandard journalism and crowd sourcing petition sites.

It's a Plaid Cymru petition. The flyers people are holding up in the photo have Plaid's logo on it and the petition includes some figures 'obtained' by a local councillor.

Pity that Plaid are not campaigning on the real issues which are lack of electrfication and the half cocked not covering South Wales metro instead of protesting against a crayonistas plans.

 

[CardiffKid]

Pity that Plaid are not campaigning on the real issues which are lack of electrfication and the half cocked not covering South Wales metro instead of protesting against a crayonistas plans.

Quite

 

[Qwerty133]

Pity that Plaid are not campaigning on the real issues which are lack of electrfication and the half cocked not covering South Wales metro instead of protesting against a crayonistas plans.

But this campaign will be 'successful' so they can claim victory when something that was never going to happen doesn't happen...

 

[Gareth Marston]

walesonline are now reporting on this big real issue

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/local-news/proposal-remove-neath-station-main-14597452

Then again people could be genuinely fearful that the Welsh Government could try and implement another one of Mary Berrys ideas.

 

[Spartacus]

It'd be funny if some people weren't taking it so seriously, his plan seems less realistic or well developed than most of the far fetched ideas that some come up with on here!

 

[ChiefPlanner]

A station with an annual patronage of about 900,000 per annum (and reasonably well located) should appear to be safe from "crayonista" tendancies.

Swansea and West Wales would be better served IMHO by a service recast of the ATW services , more direct services West Wales to Cardiff via the underused asset known as the Swansea District line with a well targeted Swansea Valley Parkway.

A modest 2 or 3 line tram network - say Singleton Park - St Thomas - SA1 - Port Talbot via Sandfields (using / adding onto the A48 bridge span) - with possibly a branch towards Neath via Briton Ferry - giving a combined service level of 10 mins or less would add connectivity - new depot somewhere near the old Danygraig Freightlner terminal.

Add on options for a North - South line from line above , using the footprint of the Swansea Vale railway via the Liberty Stadium etc to at least Clydach - possibly to Pontardawe via Trebanos.

Trams can thread their way through inner Swansea rather better than a classic heavy rail line from Swansea High Street which would really trash that which has been redeveloped since the damage of WW2 , and provide far more meaningfull local transport opportunities than a "get to Cardiff quicker at vast cost" notion.

 

[Lucan]

It's a Plaid Cymru petition. The flyers people are holding up in the photo have Plaid's logo on it

That's their mistake. I was going to sign the petition until you pointed that out.

 

[Gwenllian2001]

Does that mean that you would have signed if it was backed another party, regardless of perceived merit, or that your political prejudice got in the way?

 

[Gareth Marston]

A station with an annual patronage of about 900,000 per annum (and reasonably well located) should appear to be safe from "crayonista" tendancies.

Swansea and West Wales would be better served IMHO by a service recast of the ATW services , more direct services West Wales to Cardiff via the underused asset known as the Swansea District line with a well targeted Swansea Valley Parkway.

A modest 2 or 3 line tram network - say Singleton Park - St Thomas - SA1 - Port Talbot via Sandfields (using / adding onto the A48 bridge span) - with possibly a branch towards Neath via Briton Ferry - giving a combined service level of 10 mins or less would add connectivity - new depot somewhere near the old Danygraig Freightlner terminal.

Add on options for a North - South line from line above , using the footprint of the Swansea Vale railway via the Liberty Stadium etc to at least Clydach - possibly to Pontardawe via Trebanos.

Trams can thread their way through inner Swansea rather better than a classic heavy rail line from Swansea High Street which would really trash that which has been redeveloped since the damage of WW2 , and provide far more meaningfull local transport opportunities than a "get to Cardiff quicker at vast cost" notion.

linking up with Swansea Victoria- University-Mumbles- Gorseinon.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

linking up with Swansea Victoria- University-Mumbles- Gorseinon.

Maybe not the Mumbles , - (route lost) , but up the Clyne Valley is a possible.

Anyone could think I have been talking to someone ......

 

[Gareth Marston]

Maybe not the Mumbles , - (route lost) , but up the Clyne Valley is a possible.

Anyone could think I have been talking to someone ......

over a pint of Tomos Watkins beer?

 

[ChiefPlanner]

over a pint of Tomos Watkins beer?

Course not - in a proper manner , coffee only , notes taken.

 

[DanTrain]

It’s another of Mark Barry’s ‘schemes’.https://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/man-behind-vision-south-wales-13380545

Perhaps he can explain how the new short cut (avoiding Neath) line will get into Swansea? It possibly could have happened before all the new development by the docks but now that blocks any possible route - unless he proposes to knock down the old streets in the Port Tennant area just north of the main road? Here is the Google map of the area with Swansea station just to the left of the map. Zoom down - look at Streetview.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.6219212,-3.9136819,2571m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e1

Exactly. Whilst a stupid idea in pretty much every sense anyway, you'd have to route it along a bike path (as shown) before then taking a fairly lengthy tunnel under some hotels and the DVLA before emerging on the river bank and then taking a sharp 180 degree turn into Swansea. This would save minutes, involve a very tricky to contruct tunnel and the destruction of a perfectly nice river bank - never mind the loss of a bike/pedestrian path. Either that or destroy community woodland or quite a bit of housing. Back to the crayon desk for some people!

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Exactly. Whilst a stupid idea in pretty much every sense anyway, you'd have to route it along a bike path (as shown) before then taking a fairly lengthy tunnel under some hotels and the DVLA before emerging on the river bank and then taking a sharp 180 degree turn into Swansea. This would save minutes, involve a very tricky to contruct tunnel and the destruction of a perfectly nice river bank - never mind the loss of a bike/pedestrian path. Either that or destroy community woodland or quite a bit of housing. Back to the crayon desk for some people!View attachment 46146

Good comments - a heavy rail link along here would be pretty challenging - even before you get into the complexities of joining onto the SWML in the Briton Ferry area. All for 2 trains an hour ........

Trams can be very much more community friendly and serve a lot more people. Plenty of good examples.

 

[DanTrain]

Good comments - a heavy rail link along here would be pretty challenging - even before you get into the complexities of joining onto the SWML in the Briton Ferry area. All for 2 trains an hour ........

Trams can be very much more community friendly and serve a lot more people. Plenty of good examples.

Exactly, you could easily run a tram along that old bit of railway and theb down the bike path, before joining the A483 to run into the City Centre. An infinitely better idea, frankly Neath is big enough to afford the diversion anyway, whereas trams would benefit everyone!

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Exactly, you could easily run a tram along that old bit of railway and theb down the bike path, before joining the A483 to run into the City Centre. An infinitely better idea, frankly Neath is big enough to afford the diversion anyway, whereas trams would benefit everyone!

Spot on - I raise my dinner glass of red wine to your sentiments ...

 

[Lucan]

Does that mean that you would have signed if it was backed another party, regardless of perceived merit, or that your political prejudice got in the way?

I would not have signed it if the petition were being sponsored by any party. While it is fine for political parties to support it (or oppose it) the petition itself should be non-political.

 

[MarkyT]

Neath is a good railhead right next to a decent sized town with a large carpark and excellent access from the local dual carriageway network, and with a significant local bus hub about a 200m walk from the station along Alfred Street. It has nearly double the entry exit figures of Port Talbot Parkway and a little less than half of Swansea's. To have to do a little wiggle a few miles away from the final terminus to serve it is a small price to pay for overall benefit. Together with Swansea High Street and Port Talbot Parkway the three stations combine to serve the connurbation and the wider area very well. I feel these type of schemes to skim every last second from just one station at the expense of others threaten to make the railway overall less attractive and relevent to people. Headline journey times over general utility is not a good strategy commercially or socially. If the notional tramway through the docklands area served Neath or Port Talbot at its eastern extremity, then people with business in the new employment zones along that corridor could change onto these services from longer distance trains at such an outer hub for a quicker journey overall without having to go into central Swansea and back out.

 

[Lucan]

Exactly. Whilst a stupid idea in pretty much every sense anyway, you'd have to ..... and then taking a sharp 180 degree turn into Swansea.

I have followed the links and not found any map of what is proposed - can someone explain? 180 degree turn into Swansea? When I first read this I assumed the proposal was to turn Swansea into a through station, maybe on a new site (East bank of the river?), re-routing the main line from the east via the old freight line to the docks. Otherwise what is the point apart from shortening by a couple of miles and cutting out the Neath station stop (which they could do without re-routing if that even made any sense)?

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Neath is a good railhead right next to a decent sized town with a large carpark and excellent access from the local dual carriageway network, and with a significant local bus hub about a 200m walk from the station along Alfred Street. It has nearly double the entry exit figures of Port Talbot Parkway and a little less than half of Swansea's. To have to do a little wiggle a few miles away from the final terminus to serve it is a small price to pay for overall benefit. Together with Swansea High Street and Port Talbot Parkway the three stations combine to serve the connurbation and the wider area very well. I feel these type of schemes to skim every last second from just one station at the expense of others threaten to make the railway overall less attractive and relevent to people. Headline journey times over general utility is not a good strategy commercially or socially. If the notional tramway through the docklands area served Neath or Port Talbot at its eastern extremity, then people with business in the new employment zones along that corridor could change onto these services from longer distance trains at such an outer hub for a quicker journey overall without having to go into central Swansea and back out.

Agreed - and sort of comments made before. The idea of a Bay tram is not one in the original concept , but one that certain people (cough ....) have suggested. Interesting how robust Neath is , compared to the more "accesible" Port Talbot ....the key , I think is using the heavy rail better (SDL of course) -and something a bit more inclusive within the Swansea - Neath - Port Talbot area.

For the record , not lived down there for a very long time , but Neath was a workable railhead for a very long time in my younger years. Probably still is , judging by the patronage.

 

[DanTrain]

I have followed the links and not found any map of what is proposed - can someone explain? 180 degree turn into Swansea? When I first read this I assumed the proposal was to turn Swansea into a through station, maybe on a new site (East bank of the river?), re-routing the main line from the east via the old freight line to the docks. Otherwise what is the point apart from shortening by a couple of miles and cutting out the Neath station stop (which they could do without re-routing if that even made any sense)?

No, that was my suggestion of how ou might get to Swansea, I don’t think there is an official map, although I agree makkng Swansea a through station makes a bit more sense than my 180 degree turn (and would save a few reversals).

 

[adrock1976]

Perhaps Carwyn Jones and Ken Skates are looking at the wrong city in Wales to bring back trams?

PS For any posters that are unaware, there is a very large thread titled "South Wales Metro", where one of the options is to convert the Valley Lines network to trams north of Cardiff Queen Street, with street running sections. This is a crazy idea suggested by Jones and Skates.

 

[Fred B]

I've only joined to throw in some info and give a link to Mary Berry's gibberish

Hopefully the link works

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5zj3txr2is42fat/Swansea Bay Metro D3.0.pdf?dl=0

What might not be apparent is Swansea railway station is about 50 or 60 feet above the River Tawe. Getting the railway up there from the docks would cause massive problems to an area that's been under constant development for the last 10 years, with much more planned.

I've uploaded the PDF

 

[Lucan]

I've only joined to throw in some info and give a link to Mary Berry's gibberish

Thanks, very helpful. He says the current Swansea station was once a through station (called "High Street Station"), but the old OS map he shows does not entirely support that. Looks more like a freight branch to the South Dock (and beyond?) went off just before the station throat without platforms.

He seems to propose the new main line to come in from the east along the old line to Prince of Wales Dock and then over a new river bridge to the existing main station re-aligned more north-south than the current northeast-southwest. I believe that my own suggestion of a new station on the East bank of the river (linked by a new foot bridge) would be more practical and less destructive- where the old map shows a freight yard and in fact a small station*. Looks like waste land now. The river could be bridged to regain the existing main line half a mile further north.

* Later edit : It seems to have been the old Midland Railway passenger terminus. Don't ask me how the Midland managed to get to Swansea; Perhaps I'll ask on the Railway History forum.

 

[Bwlch y Groes]

Reading through his PDF, it's not as terrible an idea as it first sounded. I'd certainly be in favour of utilising the existing freight lines and former rail paths for passenger services - Swansea has the potential for a great suburban rail network. But the SWML diversion is just not realistic in the current climate. Taken as a whole, I'd be concerned that it's the sort of thing the Welsh government will get hold of, strip down to a basic core semi-improvement and present as world class and transformative, as with the Metro