Dorking ticket for Reigate

[Barn]

I'm considering a move to Reigate (for the schools rather than the train service, I have to say).

My usual commute would be to London Bridge or the Thameslink core, changing at Redhill / East Croydon.

I have a few questions if you don't mind:

1. Could I ask if a London - Dorking Any Permitted ticket would be valid via Redhill? If so, it would seem to offer more journey options when things go wrong, and be a little cheaper too.
2. If it is valid, would you expect any problems using it in practice (i.e. should I expect it to open the gates at Redhill and be immediately accepted by RPIs)?
3. Could I load it onto an ITSO card (e.g. Southern's "The Key") even if some travel may be on South West Trains or GWR?
4. Is the London-Dorking ticket valid on any routes west of Dorking? I suspect validity via Guildford is me pushing my luck?!

Thanks!

PS: I can see that my first question above has been asked before, but in previous threads some posters were asking about "Southern Only" tickets rather than Any Permitted tickets, and in another thread there was an error in the routing guide which was due to be fixed, so it would be great to get an up-to-date answer if possible!

 

[Romilly]

Or a Betchworth-London ticket may perhaps be less likely to raise questions.

 

[Barn]

Or a Betchworth-London ticket may perhaps be less likely to raise questions.

With the current state of Southern Rail, though, it would be nice to have South West Trains to Dorking and GWR to Reigate as an option.

 

[swt class 450]

I very often buy Betchworth to London tickets which do allow travel via Dorking and via Redhill so i imagine that a Dorking to London ticket would be the same. Other than Dorking Deepdene to Dorking West tickets all other tickets are just issued as Dorking Stations. I am not 100% sure whether it is valid via Guildford though.

You shouldnt have any problems at the ticket barriers. The barriers at Redhill are left open most of the time. And even when they are closed the staff will normally let anyone through so your ticket(s) is unlikely to cause any problems. There is also a side entrance and exit without any barriers. The only problems you may have are the (rarely seen) RPIs who have been known to unfairly give people Penalty Fares even though they have a valid ticket.

Personally i would just recommend using normal paper tickets. Far more easy and simple than these smartcard tickets.

 

[Deepgreen]

I'm considering a move to Reigate (for the schools rather than the train service, I have to say).

My usual commute would be to London Bridge or the Thameslink core, changing at Redhill / East Croydon.

I have a few questions if you don't mind:

1. Could I ask if a London - Dorking Any Permitted ticket would be valid via Redhill? If so, it would seem to offer more journey options when things go wrong, and be a little cheaper too.
2. If it is valid, would you expect any problems using it in practice (i.e. should I expect it to open the gates at Redhill and be immediately accepted by RPIs)?
3. Could I load it onto an ITSO card (e.g. Southern's "The Key") even if some travel may be on South West Trains or GWR?
4. Is the London-Dorking ticket valid on any routes west of Dorking? I suspect validity via Guildford is me pushing my luck?!

Thanks!

PS: I can see that my first question above has been asked before, but in previous threads some posters were asking about "Southern Only" tickets rather than Any Permitted tickets, and in another thread there was an error in the routing guide which was due to be fixed, so it would be great to get an up-to-date answer if possible!

Living at Betchworth, I have a London to Dorking, via any route, ticket - so yes.

Problems with gate operation are rife. I eventually forced Southern (who issued the ticket at Dorking) to amend the gate/ticket codings so that Redhill and other intermediate stations would accept it, after at least two years! However - and this is a huge one for me - Clapham Junction (served by trains of both Southern and SWT, and on both routes from Dorking, does not accept the ticket! I have given up complaining about this ridiculous omission as neither SWT (who operate the station) or Southern were interested and prefer to have even more people queuing to use the manual gates.

My ticket is not valid west of Dorking (I assume you mean on the NDL) but is valid via Effingham Junction, presumably for diversion purposes. I have never had cause to use it there.

 

[Barn]

Personally i would just recommend using normal paper tickets. Far more easy and simple than these smartcard tickets.

I'd tend to agree for most purposes, but previously I've found when you have an annual gold card and barriers they can get quite dog-eared / desensitized / faded and require frequent replacement. They're also a bit of a pain to keep taking out and putting back in the ticket wallet in a jostling crowd.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Thanks everyone for your help.

One more question if I may. Would Delay Repay claims work for problems on the journey between Reigate and London via Redhill if the ticket says Dorking on the front and the Dorking direct line was running fine?

 

[pepperpot80]

3. Could i load it onto an itso card (e.g. Southern's "the key") even if some travel may be on south west trains or gwr?
[*]is the london-dorking ticket valid on any routes west of dorking? I suspect validity via guildford is me pushing my luck?!

Yes, you can purchase a Dorking - London Terminals ticket on the key, and it is accepted:

• between Deepdene and Redhill on GWR
• between Leatherhead and London Waterloo (via Wimbledon) on SWT
• between West Croydon / Crystal Palace and New Cross Gate on London Overground

South West Trains / GWR do not accept Dorking - London season tickets between Dorking - Guildford - Woking, except in times of disruption.

 

[Barn]

Yes, you can purchase a Dorking - London Terminals ticket on the key, and it is accepted:

• between Deepdene and Redhill on GWR
• between Leatherhead and London Waterloo (via Wimbledon) on SWT
• between West Croydon / Crystal Palace and New Cross Gate on London Overground

South West Trains / GWR do not accept Dorking - London season tickets between Dorking - Guildford - Woking, except in times of disruption.

Thanks. Sounds positive!

On the SWT point, don't they run all the way to Dorking, not just to Leatherhead?

 

[arb]

Is the London-Dorking ticket valid on any routes west of Dorking? I suspect validity via Guildford is me pushing my luck?!

Some time ago (for a multi-leg day trip) I worked out that a destination of Gomshall was the most easterly station on the North Downs Line that allowed travel via either Guildford or Redhill (or Dorking Main). It is, as you might expect, more expensive than a Dorking ticket.

 

[Minstral25]

A question has come up on Dorking (Stations) to St Pancras International tickets - any permitted not underground season tickets, which are valid via Redhill.

It seems that the route permits going via London Victoria and London Bridge but not using the Underground. If this is the case then for most journeys it would be cheaper than a London Terminals ticket but allow basically the same access to London that users from the south would need as a London Terminals ticket.

Can anyone confirm if this is correct please?

 

[maniacmartin]

A question has come up on Dorking (Stations) to St Pancras International tickets - any permitted not underground season tickets, which are valid via Redhill.

It seems that the route permits going via London Victoria and London Bridge but not using the Underground. If this is the case then for most journeys it would be cheaper than a London Terminals ticket but allow basically the same access to London that users from the south would need as a London Terminals ticket.

Can anyone confirm if this is correct please?

Using tickets that specifically name St Pancras and are routed NOT UNDERGROUND into Victoria or London Bridge is a grey area that has been discussed on this forum numerous times. Whilst it is not intended to be valid that way, I personally believe it to be valid, with the passenger completing the journey on foot or using Oyster.

However, I would strongly advise against trying to use the ticket via Victoria in this way. They do not operate the ticket barriers and you will have a lot of hassle arguing with gateline staff. You will have more luck with barrier staff at London Bridge, given that Thameslink trains used to go via this route and will again in the future, but the ticket is unlikely to operate the gates here either. Given the franchises are now combined, its likely that these tickets will be withdrawn from sale relatively soon anyway.

(It goes without staying that using the ticket to Blackfriars, City Thameslink or Farringdon is unambigously valid)

 

[Minstral25]

Using tickets that specifically name St Pancras and are routed NOT UNDERGROUND into Victoria or London Bridge is a grey area that has been discussed on this forum numerous times. Whilst it is not intended to be valid that way, I personally believe it to be valid, with the passenger completing the journey on foot or using Oyster.

However, I would strongly advise against trying to use the ticket via Victoria in this way. They do not operate the ticket barriers and you will have a lot of hassle arguing with gateline staff. You will have more luck with barrier staff at London Bridge, given that Thameslink trains used to go via this route and will again in the future, but the ticket is unlikely to operate the gates here either. Given the franchises are now combined, its likely that these tickets will be withdrawn from sale relatively soon anyway.

(It goes without staying that using the ticket to Blackfriars, City Thameslink or Farringdon is unambigously valid)

Thank you for the answer - I searched and didn't find any previous discussion.

I think someone who had used this ticket in the past and then wanted to go to London Bridge even though it is temporarily cut off from Thameslink and not be able to use would be unfair (although ticket prices are never fair).

I agree with your point on Victoria and wanted to check if it would be valid. As ticket Office staff said it was!

I wouldn't expect a ticket to London St Pancras to be withdrawn though unless they are going to force everyone to use Travelcards who want to make that journey. Although probably wouldn't be a bad idea if all tickets to London were for Zone 1 as well to encourage public transport use but it'll end up a big argument with TfL about share of ticket proceeds.

 

[maniacmartin]

I agree with your point on Victoria and wanted to check if it would be valid. As ticket Office staff said it was!

I bet they won't be prepared to put that in writing!

 

[paul1609]

Using tickets that specifically name St Pancras and are routed NOT UNDERGROUND into Victoria or London Bridge is a grey area that has been discussed on this forum numerous times. Whilst it is not intended to be valid that way, I personally believe it to be valid, with the passenger completing the journey on foot or using Oyster.

However, I would strongly advise against trying to use the ticket via Victoria in this way. They do not operate the ticket barriers and you will have a lot of hassle arguing with gateline staff. You will have more luck with barrier staff at London Bridge, given that Thameslink trains used to go via this route and will again in the future, but the ticket is unlikely to operate the gates here either. Given the franchises are now combined, its likely that these tickets will be withdrawn from sale relatively soon anyway.

(It goes without staying that using the ticket to Blackfriars, City Thameslink or Farringdon is unambigously valid)

Until January 2018 under the Thameslink program tickets to St Pancras from the south have additional validity in accordance with the following paragraph from the Thameslink website:
"Passengers with valid National Rail season and day tickets will be able to use Transport for London services from the following stations only: Blackfriars, Elephant & Castle, London Bridge, Cannon Street, Waterloo, Embankment, Charing Cross, Southwark. Tickets will have to be shown to staff at ticket barriers"