Drayton Park to Moorgate branch

[aspierail]

At the moment Drayton Park to Moorgate branch is monday to friday do you think it should have a weekend service or do you think monday to friday is fine as it is.

 

[causton]

Could be useful for a weekend service with the connections at Highbury & Islington to East + West London... Better than walking half a mile to the platforms at Kings Cross

 

[jon0844]

I think a later service on a Friday night and a Saturday service would be profitable, but I am not sure about Sunday.

I think one issue is staffing of the platforms at stations like Old Street (which would be busy on a Friday night, more so than Moorgate which would probably be dead). For people who would be changing at King's Cross if they took the Northern Line (with the long walk) it would definitely be good.

Only downside would be late night trains + no toilets = mess.

 

[W-on-Sea]

Old Street would definitely get busy at nighttime.

The area around the station has changed to the point of unrecognizability (all those trendy bars and nightspots) since the last time weekend trains ran on that line, too. Essex Road would be even deader than it is the rest of the time though, and Drayton Park too, I guess Highbury might bring in some custom (perhaps especially now the Overground is in place) - but with the Victoria line running parallel up to Finsbury Park that's not quite so important.

Can't imagine any substantial demand for a Sunday service at all, though.

 

[Statto]

Drayton Park is also useful being near the Emirates Stadium, surprised there isn't already a service on Matchdays[nights]

 

[causton]

Oh yes, I don't think there is much demand on a Sunday and Essex Road could probably be skipped without anyone being inconvenienced!

 

[tom1649]

Oh yes, I don't think there is much demand on a Sunday and Essex Road could probably be skipped without anyone being inconvenienced!

Essex Road is eerily quiet even on a week day. Presumably it does attract a few passengers during the peaks.

Was there a weekend service when BR first took over the line from LT?

 

[barrykas]

Drayton Park is also useful being near the Emirates Stadium, surprised there isn't already a service on Matchdays[nights]

Drayton Park has a narrow island platform, and is accessed by a single staircase. Hence it tends to be closed on matchdays, with passengers directed to Finsbury Park instead.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[NSEFAN]

Old Street would definitely get busy at nighttime.

Could services start/terminate at Old Street, using Moorgate for reversal? Also, the trains could not call at Essex Road / Drayton Park if it is thought that there will not be any custom. Highbury and Islington would be useful as an interchange.

 

[W-on-Sea]

Was there a weekend service when BR first took over the line from LT?

Yes.

Also, while in recent years the time of the last trains on the branch are maybe 1 and a half to 2 hours later than they had been before then, I'm fairly sure there was previously a late evening service too.

Can't remember exactly when the weekend and evening services were withdrawn, but possibly as long ago as the late 1980s/early 1990s

 

[jon0844]

Drayton Park has a narrow island platform, and is accessed by a single staircase. Hence it tends to be closed on matchdays, with passengers directed to Finsbury Park instead.

Wasn't this something Arsenal was looking to upgrade? I am not sure how easy it would be too put in a platform on the other side of platform 2? (northbound), thus making the existing one exclusively for trains into Moorgate. There's room on the ground, but what about to get stairs down and expand the station capacity itself (I've never been there)?

Fence off the edge to the other platform and you could now use it for the ground, which has an entrance just around the corner.

In any case, I think Arsenal failed to fund a lot of things it said it would so it's a moot point anyway. Now I think they're to reinstate another platform at Finsbury Park, but I presume Network Rail is funding it, not Arsenal.

As for closing stations. I could see skipping Essex Road no problem, but the power changeover at Drayton Park could make it worthwhile to open the doors anyway. That said, they close the station for football so I suppose they could do it at night/weekends too. The change doesn't take that long. It's not some modern train that needs super powerful computers to slow things down.

 

[Aictos]

Between Finsbury Park and Moorgate, the trains only need to stop at Highbury and Islington, Old Street and Moorgate during these times which would give connections to the London Overground as well as the LUL network - indeed Highbury and Islington should certainly be considered as not only have you got cross platform interchange using either the Victoria/FCC lines but also heading upstairs you've got the North London Line and the East London Line.

Highbury and Islington being much more attractive transferring between National Rail services and LUL services then Finsbury Park.

The NCL ought to be running trains until end of service anyway between Monday to Saturday so when the last LUL train departs Moorgate is when the last FCC leaves Moorgate.

IF there's not much call for Drayton Park and Essex Road to be in use then simply don't stop there.

 

[swt_passenger]

In any case, I think Arsenal failed to fund a lot of things it said it would so it's a moot point anyway. Now I think they're to reinstate another platform at Finsbury Park, but I presume Network Rail is funding it, not Arsenal.

I think what happened is that the local authority asked for a contribution towards improvements to the Underground station (only), and Arsenal agreed whatever that figure happened to be.

It was subsequently discovered that whatever figure had been signed off was nowhere near enough, but Arsenal had by then got their planning permission, and wouldn't renegotiate.

Previous discussions elsewhere took the view that Drayton Park, even with a new match day platform on the stadium side, was never considered to a solution - it was considered to be too near to the stadium to safely marshal the number of fans that would want to use it.

I'm also fairly sure the current improvements at Finsbury Park (amongst which are the reopening of the closed platforms), are nothing to do with the football traffic, the purpose is shown specifically as ECML LDHS capacity improvement in the CP4 enhancements plans.

 

[317 forever]

I last rode this branch in April 2008. I was shocked that some stations still had Network South East insignia! I am planning a Mon-Fri visit to the area next year, when I should be able to ride an FCC Thameslink class 377 from London Bridge to St Pancras International, and bus route 521. I shall then see whether stations on this branch have been refurbished recently.

 

[tom1649]

I shall then see whether stations on this branch have been refurbished recently.

They haven't!

 

[swt_passenger]

I last rode this branch in April 2008. I was shocked that some stations still had Network South East insignia! I am planning a Mon-Fri visit to the area next year, when I should be able to ride an FCC Thameslink class 377 from London Bridge to St Pancras International, and bus route 521. I shall then see whether stations on this branch have been refurbished recently.

Much of the NSE 'house style' is done in the tiling, so would be very expensive to change - this stuff is built to last a long time...

 

[317 forever]

Much of the NSE 'house style' is done in the tiling, so would be very expensive to change - this stuff is built to last a long time...

That explains why the insignia has not changed since then. In a way it makes for an enjoyable nostalgia trip. As I quite enjoy riding services that are unique to Mondays-Fridays (or weekends for that matter) I shall probably still ride it. I have yet to ride a refurbished FCC class 317, so can ride one from King's Cross to Finsbury Park, then onto Moorgate.

 

[jon0844]

Actually, they HAVE been cleaned up a lot. The light fittings were cleaned, the tiles washed and floor cleaned up too. Believe me, the stations are a lot brighter than they used to be. New tiles have been put up in places too, filling in gaps, and are easy to spot as they colour matching wasn't that good - but, hey, they've kept the NSE look and I am sure many people like this - especially as it's perfectly functional.

They still don't do announcements for trains except in extremely rare circumstances where they're done manually, which is frustrating when things go wrong as there's just one display per platform and no phone coverage. When things go tits up, the screens are often useless as trains disappear off the board without saying cancelled (and when I used a help point, I was told by someone who didn't even know where I was that the train had just gone, as if everyone had missed!).

At Old Street, on the platform going to Moorgate (obviously very few people take FCC to Moorgate when the Northern Line is easier to get to and more frequent) there are still old tube maps from 2008! A lot of east London including the DLR have changed quite a bit since then!

 

[Hydro]

I last rode this branch in April 2008. I was shocked that some stations still had Network South East insignia!

Shocked? I was delighted!

Travelling to work, I tube'd it to Old Street before changing to the Moorgate branch. It was great, especially using the spiral staircase down the shaft from the Northern line level to get to the Branch platforms, still resplendent in NSE.

 

[jon0844]

I do wish LUL would make the signs a bit clearer though. At Old Street, it says trains to Welwyn and at Moorgate it says trains to Stevenage.

At Moorgate, they needed to differentiate between the GN side and the TL side - but now they don't and can just say 'National Rail' and likewise at Old Street where there is no station called 'Welwyn'. There's WGC and Welwyn North (which trains don't go to from Old Street) and it completely ignores the Herford Loop, and indeed Stevenage!

The problem is the whole station is LUL run, which means you can't buy ticket extensions and FCC can't put live running information screens upstairs so you can save a long walk when things have gone wrong.

 

[Aictos]

I do wish LUL would make the signs a bit clearer though. At Old Street, it says trains to Welwyn and at Moorgate it says trains to Stevenage.

At Moorgate, they needed to differentiate between the GN side and the TL side - but now they don't and can just say 'National Rail' and likewise at Old Street where there is no station called 'Welwyn'. There's WGC and Welwyn North (which trains don't go to from Old Street) and it completely ignores the Herford Loop, and indeed Stevenage!

The problem is the whole station is LUL run, which means you can't buy ticket extensions and FCC can't put live running information screens upstairs so you can save a long walk when things have gone wrong.

I quite agree, I fail to see why LUL can't use use direction signage stating the way to use National Rail services - on the LUL trains themselves you pull into Kings Cross St Pancras and the trains automatically tell you to change there for National Rail services.

Or if they can't do that, then just use signage pointing the way to the Moorgate bound trains and the Finsbury Park bound trains - simple

 

[NSEFAN]

I hope the big sign at Essex Road gets saved. I'd happily buy it whoever owns it were willing to sell!

 

[bicbasher]

Essex Road while it has great platforms, I don't like the area by the lifts and I wouldn't like to be a vulnerable passenger waiting there late.

 

[causton]

I hope the big sign at Essex Road gets saved. I'd happily buy it whoever owns it were willing to sell!

Wow, things haven't changed much (except for fast trains not calling at Ally Pally)

 

[jon0844]

I think they need to remove 'Bedford Line' too for Moorgate, as that is misleading.

 

[paulb1973]

Am I correct in saying, the 1975 Moorgate tube accident occurred when a 1938 tube-stock train ran along this line and crashed into a tunnel and wall at Moorgate station? BR services took over later on, but does the actual platform and wall still remain in existence today?

 

[Eagle]

I think they need to remove 'Bedford Line' too for Moorgate, as that is misleading.

I was there a couple of months ago and they had removed those signs. Albeit with unconvincing white stickers.

 

[W-on-Sea]

Am I correct in saying, the 1975 Moorgate tube accident occurred when a 1938 tube-stock train ran along this line and crashed into a tunnel and wall at Moorgate station? BR services took over later on, but does the actual platform and wall still remain in existence today?

Yes, to all of your questions. (not 100% sure about the wall, or if a longer overrun was built during the conversion to BR, but the platform, Platform 10 I think, is still in use)

 

[Aictos]

Both platforms see regular use, there is lighting available for staff which lights up both areas where the tunnels end as well as lighting in the tunnels going back to Drayton Park.

Where the tunnel ends for platform 9, the original Great Shield used to create the tunnel is still there as is part of the coupling from the 1938 LUL train which is embedded into the brickwork where the tunnel ends for platform 10.

 

[A60K]

The story about the remains from the Moorgate crash still being in the tunnel is a legend - there's more information on some other sites.