Driver ICA

[king_walnut]

Hi,

Can anyone who's passed an ICA please explain the whole process of it a little bit better to me? As in how strict are they with things that you might not know? For example, earlier I was testing myself on TW5 and couldn't for the life of me recall what the speed limit would be for moving a train with failed headlights. Would that fail me completely?

I am doing pretty well and my learning has been good but I'm just worried that when asked questions on the spot I might slip with some of them, it's nerve-racking knowing it's a 2 strikes and out thing.

Cheers.

 

[ComUtoR]

Which TOC ?

As always, its best to speak to your Instructor. That's what they are there for :/

ICA sounds like Southeastern ?

 

[king_walnut]

I've got a study week and it's now the evening so figured I'd ask here, as I imagine there's tons of people here who can help!

It's with GTR

 

[ComUtoR]

ICAs are usually about your overall performance. You shouldn't fail on something small or a single rules question. At my TOC you sit a rules/traction/PTS paper and there is a pass mark to achieve but the rest is based on your driving. Ours are about a week long and as long as your safe then your pretty good to pass. The Assessor will take into account your nerves and look at your performance over the whole week.

We still get people who fail their ICA but its usually on something major or a combination of many minors.

You should NEVER be put up for your ICA until your ready for it. As I say, speak to your Instructor and if your not ready, get them to push your date back a little. Happens at my place all the time.

 

[Eccles1983]

Hi,

Can anyone who's passed an ICA please explain the whole process of it a little bit better to me? As in how strict are they with things that you might not know? For example, earlier I was testing myself on TW5 and couldn't for the life of me recall what the speed limit would be for moving a train with failed headlights. Would that fail me completely?

I am doing pretty well and my learning has been good but I'm just worried that when asked questions on the spot I might slip with some of them, it's nerve-racking knowing it's a 2 strikes and out thing.

Cheers.

If all your headlights are dead then you don't move. It's a assistance job then.

If you have a bardic lamp then it's 20mph to clear the line.

If you have a portable headlight then it's 75mph and allowed to continue in service until the end of the day*

*Dependant on TOC.

 

[Eccles1983]

And as for that - no it's not a complete fail - but if you got several wrong then it would be.

Generally you would have a quick chat about the answer, and rebriefed on it. It's generally not frowned on to get stuff like that wrong - however signalling is. You've got to nail them as failing signalling questions generally means your failing the entire thing.

 

[theironroad]

What's a ICA?

 

[Bromley boy]

What's a ICA?

Initial Competence Assessment = a grandiose title for the final assessment before passing out.

Called different things in different places!

 

[ComUtoR]

If you have a bardic lamp then it's 20mph to clear the line.

Not forgetting to frequently sound the horn.

 

[theironroad]

Initial Competence Assessment = a grandiose title for the final assessment before passing out.

Called different things in different places!

haha, thanks. usually known around here as 'your final'....

 

[bionic]

Depends how desperate the TOC is for drivers. I've seen some absolute horrorshows getting passed out over the years.

A lot of that is to do with the quality and pedigree of the instructors. I heard a wry comment made the other year at one suburban depot suggesting that one of the guys who put in for DI had no chance because his safety record was too good!

To be fair, there have also been some great drivers passing out. My advice for anyone sitting their ICA, part six, or whatever they are calling it this week is to make sure you are up to scratch on everything. If that means not going out for a month while studying then don't go out for a month.

Good luck.

 

[sw1ller]

There’s a question on our test about dangerous goods, and unless you know EXACTLY what the test is looking for, you’re going to get it wrong. Without using the actual plate details as I can’t remember it, It asks, what 6 letters would you give the signaller from the hazard plate

2WE
1876

The answer it wants is 1876WE typed exactly like that.

In reality, why the hell would you omit the 2? If you’re giving these details to a signaller as a driver from a TOC, it’s more than likely in an emergency and trying to remember the exact order to give the details when it’s completely irrelevant, would cost valuable time.

I used to drive tankers on the road, I’ve never been taught to leave out the first number if I was to call the emergency services.

To be fair, 1876 would be sufficient, the fire brigade has a nice big book there telling them what PPE to use when dealing with a spillage or blaze.

Point is, dont worry too much, most people get a couple wrong due to the way the questions are laid out. Hope this helps.

 

[Highlandspring]

If they’re really expecting that as an answer then you have good cause to feel aggrieved because it is incorrect.

As you know the information the signaller needs to pass on to NR Control is made up of two parts, the UN number which identifies the exact substance involved and the two letter Alpha Code which identifies the relevant authority to call for specialist help in the event of an emergency. This is ususally the consignor; details of the relevant UN and Alpha Codes are put into the railway TOPS system when the traffic is accepted from the consignor and it is added to the TOPS consist and train list. This is the only place where the train crew, signaller or controller will find the Alpha Code and the TOPS ‘SD DANF’ procedure will provide the list of contact details. The Alpha Code is exclusively a railway thing - it means nothing to the emergency services and is not displayed on rail vehicles at all. The only thing it is used for is phoning for specialist advice. For example the train list for a train conveying a nuclear flask will show the code 2917WF next to the wagon details. The ‘2917’ indicates the wagon is loaded with radioactive class B material (non fissile) and the ‘WF’ indicates that in the event of an emergency you must contact MAGNOX Ltd and the Civil Nuclear Constabulary duty inspector on the numbers provided. The only way to find this out is for the controller to do an SD DANF enquiry on TOPS.

As you’ve said the 2WE format code is known as an Emergency Action Code and is provided to inform the emergency services responding on site how to deal with a spillage or fire involving the material. The first number indicates how to deal suppress a fire (2 is water fog) while the letters indicate what PPE is required, whether the product is liable to react violently and whether the immediate area needs to be evacuated. The plate on which the EAC is displayed on the vehicle should also show the correct UN code and a 24 hour phone number for specialist advice. The EAC is an internationally agreed thing and has absolutely nothing to do with the UK railway’s Alpha Code.

Telling the signaller you have a UN number of 1876 (which isn’t actually in use, perhaps that was deliberate?) and an Alpha Code of WE when it is actually, say, RD is likely to cause confusion at best or at worst end up with the wrong authority being called to deal with the incident.

Anyway if that’s the standard of the TOC’s questions then I’m not impressed.

 

[sw1ller]

If they’re really expecting that as an answer then you have good cause to feel aggrieved because it is incorrect.

As you know the information the signaller needs to pass on to NR Control is made up of two parts, the UN number which identifies the exact substance involved and the two letter Alpha Code which identifies the relevant authority to call for specialist help in the event of an emergency. This is ususally the consignor; details of the relevant UN and Alpha Codes are put into the railway TOPS system when the traffic is accepted from the consignor and it is added to the TOPS consist and train list. This is the only place where the train crew, signaller or controller will find the Alpha Code and the TOPS ‘SD DANF’ procedure will provide the list of contact details. The Alpha Code is exclusively a railway thing - it means nothing to the emergency services and is not displayed on rail vehicles at all. The only thing it is used for is phoning for specialist advice. For example the train list for a train conveying a nuclear flask will show the code 2917WF next to the wagon details. The ‘2917’ indicates the wagon is loaded with radioactive class B material (non fissile) and the ‘WF’ indicates that in the event of an emergency you must contact MAGNOX Ltd and the Civil Nuclear Constabulary duty inspector on the numbers provided. The only way to find this out is for the controller to do an SD DANF enquiry on TOPS.

As you’ve said the 2WE format code is known as an Emergency Action Code and is provided to inform the emergency services responding on site how to deal with a spillage or fire involving the material. The first number indicates how to deal suppress a fire (2 is water fog) while the letters indicate what PPE is required, whether the product is liable to react violently and whether the immediate area needs to be evacuated. The plate on which the EAC is displayed on the vehicle should also show the correct UN code and a 24 hour phone number for specialist advice. The EAC is an internationally agreed thing and has absolutely nothing to do with the UK railway’s Alpha Code.

Telling the signaller you have a UN number of 1876 (which isn’t actually in use, perhaps that was deliberate?) and an Alpha Code of WE when it is actually, say, RD is likely to cause confusion at best or at worst end up with the wrong authority being called to deal with the incident.

Anyway if that’s the standard of the TOC’s questions then I’m not impressed.

It’s been about 8 months since I’ve taken my rules refresher test, but I’m almost certain the plate shown is a standard “ADR” plate and not RIDDOR (If that still exists, I don’t know anything about the conveyance of dangerous goods by rail). I will have to go back and check the question but it definitely has 7 digits and you have to omit one of them. Maybe the person who made the question has got confused then. Very informative, thank you.

And 1876 was just pulled out of thin air, I wasn’t expecting it to make sense. Just my luck to pick one that doesn’t exist!!

 

[ComUtoR]

Our 'dangerous goods question' is something along the lines of ...

If you saw this sign when making an emergency call (insert dangerous good signage) How would you report it to the Signaller ?

A: "This is an emergency call"
B: "This is a Dangerous Goods emergency"
C: "This is a rail dangerous goods emergency"
D: "This is a freight emergency"

The rulebook only states to give the UN number.

 

[Highlandspring]

Maybe the person who made the question has got confused then.

That's very likely. My experience of TOC management is that unless they're proper BR old school most are fairly clueless when it comes to the freight world, or anything in the rule book that doesn't relate directly to the operation of passenger trains. I once experienced a hilariously inept account of how T3 possessions work from a TOC graduate manager...

For Dangerous Goods matters the FOCs who actually shift the stuff are naturally very on the ball as are NR controllers.