East Midlands Railway, platform ticket machines, Off-Peak Return validity and Mandatory Reservations

[Baxenden Bank]

Managed to get it all in the thread title!

Last week I bought an Off-Peak Day Return (CDR) from Blythe Bridge to Manchester. The new(ish) platform vending machine insisted on me giving it both outward and return times before it would sell me a ticket. Two issues: firstly I wasn't certain of my return time (outward was there and then, return required two bus connections working out), secondly it then reserved me a seat in both directions and printed a ticket with 'Mandatory Reservations' printed on it.

Taking it one step further, this coming week I need to stay overnight (or several nights) so shall be buying an Off-Peak Return (SVR).

Why can't I just buy a ticket?
Are reservations (on Avanti services) still mandatory?
Will the SVR I buy this week still have CLEARLY printed on it the proper one month ahead expiry date rather than a return date the TVM forces me to enter?

On the day last week, a quick sprint from Chorlton Street meant I just made the train that I had been given the reservation on. Had I attempted to travel at a different time would the ticket barrier at Piccadilly have had a strop and refused to open?

Having had several frustrating encounters with ticket machines recently playing the same 'tell me your shoe size and inside leg measurement' game (EMR as above, Avanti and Northern when buying in the opposite direction at Piccadilly) I am thinking of simply getting on the train without a ticket and paying cash when challenged (The TVM at Blythe Bridge is card only). I could buy in advance (using the RailUKforum facility obviously ) but I will not know until the last minute whether I need to travel or not.

 

[Watershed]

Most new TVMs are itinerary-based and so insist on you searching for a journey in order to buy a ticket. Unfortunately EMR have "joined the club" in replacing their perfectly serviceable existing, simple TVMs.

Avanti still falsely mark their trains as reservations compulsory in the timetable data, and thus journey planners (such as EMR's new TVMs) are forced to issue reservations if selling a ticket in conjunction with an itinerary involving one of their trains.

However, they have never been compulsory in practice and you will have no issue using a walk-up ticket on another service, even if it's ostensibly marked as a "compulsory" reservation.

The expiry date will still be shown correctly as it remains a walk-up ticket, even if you are forced to enter a return date/time.

In future, you may find it easier to buy your ticket online and obtain an e-ticket, or use ToD to collect a ticket.

 

[jfollows]

On the day last week, a quick sprint from Chorlton Street meant I just made the train that I had been given the reservation on. Had I attempted to travel at a different time would the ticket barrier at Piccadilly have had a strop and refused to open?

Extremely unlikely, fortunately.
The SVR will have the correct "valid until" date shown on it also.
I think you are aware of the dangers of boarding a train without a ticket, and that it's generally inadvisable because it makes you liable for a penalty fare. You may need to obtain a "promise to pay" ticket from the TVM if you want to pay cash, but I don't know for sure. However you'll be fine with the SVR from the machine, it's just that it's totally unhelpful to have to enter an itinerary when you know what ticket you want, the ticket you get in the end will work without restricting you to the dates and times you enter, it's just a bit of pantomime you have to go through in order to get the ticket.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Most new TVMs are itinerary-based and so insist on you searching for a journey in order to buy a ticket. Unfortunately EMR have "joined the club" in replacing their perfectly serviceable existing, simple TVMs.

Avanti still falsely mark their trains as reservations compulsory in the timetable data, and thus journey planners (such as EMR's new TVMs) are forced to issue reservations if selling a ticket in conjunction with an itinerary involving one of their trains.

However, they have never been compulsory in practice and you will have no issue using a walk-up ticket on another service, even if it's ostensibly marked as a "compulsory" reservation.

The expiry date will still be shown correctly as it remains a walk-up ticket, even if you are forced to enter a return date/time.

In future, you may find it easier to buy your ticket online and obtain an e-ticket, or use ToD to collect a ticket.

The return date part was the bit which bothered me most, not having bought a 'period' rail ticket for some time, only short distance singles/returns for on the day travel.

I fear the direction of travel, towards fixed itineraries for all travel, creeps onwards.

I did have various 'apps' on my phone pre-covid but they all got deleted through non-use. I can't entirely remember how to do e- or m- or pdf-tickets. Plus I'm trying to simplify things not add more complications. TOD is an option available on the EMR machines, that I can cope with because I can select at leisure at home rather than standing stooped to wheelchair eye-level in front of some recalcitrant machine with the sun shining on the screen etc.

What EMR don't advertise is the bonus feature on their new machines: A nice soggy ticket because the flap on the collection slot lets rain in.

Extremely unlikely, fortunately.
The SVR will have the correct "valid until" date shown on it also.
I think you are aware of the dangers of boarding a train without a ticket, and that it's generally inadvisable because it makes you liable for a penalty fare. You may need to obtain a "promise to pay" ticket from the TVM if you want to pay cash, but I don't know for sure. However you'll be fine with the SVR from the machine, it's just that it's totally unhelpful to have to enter an itinerary when you know what ticket you want, the ticket you get in the end will work without restricting you to the dates and times you enter, it's just a bit of pantomime you have to go through in order to get the ticket.

Indeed I am aware of the issues of boarding without a ticket (where there are facilities to purchase etc). Fortunately (to the best of my knowledge) Blythe Bridge remains outside a Penalty Fares area, despite the misleading posters EMR (and EMT prior) have been displaying for some years. Unfortunately the recent installation of the TVM partly removes the reason for not buying a ticket before boarding, but cash remains king, if I need it to!

It is not only unhelpful to have to supply an itinerary but time consuming. The Northern machines at Piccadilly do have a 'quick buy' option, except that seemed to freeze when I tried to use it the other week. My other recent frustrating experience was using an LNR/LMR machine at Stone which, having entered my destination, then asked me for my second destination. Perhaps it meant origin and destination, having the capability to sell tickets commencing at other stations?

 

[fandroid]

I'm lucky that my local TOC, SWR, still has TVMs that don't ask for itineraries.
General question:

Do these itinerary based machines tell you what sort of ticket they are offering ( Offpeak, Anytime, Day Return, Return etc) before you have to commit to a payment?

 

[Watershed]

I'm lucky that my local TOC, SWR, still has TVMs that don't ask for itineraries.
General question:

Do these itinerary based machines tell you what sort of ticket they are offering ( Offpeak, Anytime, Day Return, Return etc) before you have to commit to a payment?

Yes, although it's not always obvious to the untrained eye!

 

[robbeech]

Worth noting that Northern machines (certainly some of them if not yet all) do have a “quick buy” option which doesn’t require any itinerary based nonsense for those who don’t need to input one. It works really well. If it isn’t on all the machines yet I’m sure it is planned.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Even with the Flowbird machines you can always buy a ticket without selecting a train

 

[janb]

Worth noting that Northern machines (certainly some of them if not yet all) do have a “quick buy” option which doesn’t require any itinerary based nonsense for those who don’t need to input one. It works really well. If it isn’t on all the machines yet I’m sure it is planned.

Just to reiterate what @Wallsendmag said, even on Journey Planner mode you can select a walk up fare without selecting a train.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Worth noting that Northern machines (certainly some of them if not yet all) do have a “quick buy” option which doesn’t require any itinerary based nonsense for those who don’t need to input one. It works really well. If it isn’t on all the machines yet I’m sure it is planned.

I disagree based on my recent experience having tried that option. But I don't have diagnostic data. It could of course have been one of many things including slow data connection or server capacity. Certainly not 'user error' as I pressed all the correct buttons and could see the ticket I wanted quickly, it just wouldn't proceed beyond that point.

It would appear that the EMR machines (Blythe Bridge at least) don't do ToD despite having 'buy and collect tickets' in big letters on the front!

This is the picture from the 2021 press release: