East Midlands Rover - Valid on Hull Trains?

[STINT47]

Can anyone advise if an East Midlands Rover (7days) is valid for use on Hull Trains? I was always under the impression that it was not but National Rail enquiries and GB rail rover list Hull Trains as being a participating rail company. If I was to get on and was challenged by a guard would the national rail website cover me from a potential penalty or prosecution for not having a valid ticket?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The East Midlands day ranger, no. The 3 days in 7 and the 7 days version, yes, according to National Rail.

 

[hooverboy]

Can anyone advise if an East Midlands Rover (7days) is valid for use on Hull Trains? I was always under the impression that it was not but National Rail enquiries and GB rail rover list Hull Trains as being a participating rail company. If I was to get on and was challenged by a guard would the national rail website cover me from a potential penalty or prosecution for not having a valid ticket?

between where and where?

peterborogh to doncaster would be alright i think

 

[Watershed]

Can anyone advise if an East Midlands Rover (7days) is valid for use on Hull Trains? I was always under the impression that it was not but National Rail enquiries and GB rail rover list Hull Trains as being a participating rail company. If I was to get on and was challenged by a guard would the national rail website cover me from a potential penalty or prosecution for not having a valid ticket?

Under section 50 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, anything you are told by (or on behalf of) the trader, that you take into consideration in your purchasing decision, automatically becomes a binding term of the contract.

NRE clearly represents the TOCs and accordingly you can rely on what it says, in that Hull Trains accept the East Midlands Rover.

 

[Feuillesmortes]

If I was to get on and was challenged by a guard would the national rail website cover me from a potential penalty or prosecution for not having a valid ticket?

Hull Trains sell normal tickets on board, so they can't penalise or prosecute without an exceptional reason.

 

[robbeech]

Have you asked Hull Trains?

 

[Starmill]

I have used the ticket on Hull Trains, and it was accepted. Albeit this was many years ago, probably in 2015.

 

[Merseysider]

The Routes You May Use
13.1 Your Ticket may show that it is valid only on certain train services, such as those of a particular Train Company, or on trains travelling via a certain route or routes. If no specific route or Train Company is shown, then (subject to any time restrictions for the type of fare you have purchased) it will be valid on:
13.1.1 any direct train service between the station(s) shown on your Ticket;
13.1.2 by any services (including any change of trains) over the shortest route which can be used by scheduled passenger services between the stations shown on your Ticket;
13.1.3 any other routes as shown in the ‘National Routeing Guide’.

Essentially: If no TOC restriction is shown on the ticket, it’s valid on the usual permitted routes via any applicable TOC.

 

[HSP 2]

Essentially: If no TOC restriction is shown on the ticket, it’s valid on the usual permitted routes via any applicable TOC.

Does the quote from NRCOT 13 apply equally to Rover / Ranger tickets?
I ask this as the Tocs on the East Yorkshire Round Robin don't mention Hull trains, but do not say that the ticket is not accepted by them.
I'm looking at 13.1 and 13.1.2 in particular.

TFAH.

 

[Watershed]

Does the quote from NRCOT 13 apply equally to Rover / Ranger tickets?
I ask this as the Tocs on the East Yorkshire Round Robin don't mention Hull trains, but do not say that the ticket is not accepted by them.
I'm looking at 13.1 and 13.1.2 in particular.

TFAH.

NRCoT condition 12 is helpful here:

12.1 Some Tickets require you to travel on a specific train service or services, or the services of a particular Train Company or Companies. This will be made clear to you when you purchase your Ticket.

12.2 Otherwise, you are allowed to make your journey on the services of any Train Company covering the journey you are making on the date(s) and by the route(s) on which your Ticket is valid.

Accordingly, unless it is made clear when you buy your ticket that there is a restriction on using a particular TOC, you can use any TOC.

It is not necessary for a TOC to be specifically mentioned as participating in a ranger or rover, for it to be valid on that TOC. A restriction only applies if it is explicitly mentioned.

 

[robbeech]

It is not necessary for a TOC to be specifically mentioned as participating in a ranger or rover, for it to be valid on that TOC. A restriction only applies if it is explicitly mentioned.

How does this work in practise though? You're never told which operators you can use when you go to a ticket office to purchase a rover ticket, and the ticket doesn't show any operator restrictions, yet should you board a train from an operator not participating you will almost certainly be treated as not having a ticket and would (at best) be sold a new ticket. So which is it? It's fine to split hairs on various rules, regulations and technicalities but this doesn't help anyone in the real world if the railway have a different view.

 

[Watershed]

How does this work in practise though? You're never told which operators you can use when you go to a ticket office to purchase a rover ticket, and the ticket doesn't show any operator restrictions, yet should you board a train from an operator not participating you will almost certainly be treated as not having a ticket and would (at best) be sold a new ticket. So which is it? It's fine to split hairs on various rules, regulations and technicalities but this doesn't help anyone in the real world if the railway have a different view.

An issue is more likely to occur when an operator explicitly doesn't participate in a ticket (as used to be the case for many Rangers and Rovers for Grand Central). If there is nothing indicated either way, I don't see why staff would automatically assume it's invalid (well, apart from woeful training or attitude...!).

It's somewhat of a moot point on the East Midlands Day Ranger as the only part of Hull Trains' route where it's valid is between Peterborough and Grantham. As they don't stop at Peterborough, the only context in which that Ranger could be used on HT would be in conjunction with another ticket valid between Peterborough and Stevenage or London. A rather unlikely scenario, I would be have thought.

 

[robbeech]

It's somewhat of a moot point on the East Midlands Day Ranger as the only part of Hull Trains' route where it's valid is between Peterborough and Grantham.

Agreed.

If there is nothing indicated either way, I don't see why staff would automatically assume it's invalid (well, apart from woeful training or attitude...!).

Again, agreed, however, it IS something that we see and it appears to be getting more common, and when it does happen it appears the customer has absolutely no way to contest the decision so you're entirely at the mercy of the guard and their commission.