East West Rail -1968 Style

[Mollington St]

East West Rail - January 1968 after the rail closures

8 page handbill produced by all the companies now involved - British Rail, City of Oxford Motor Services, Eastern Counties, Percival Motors, Premier Travel and United Counties Omnibus

 

[Falcon1200]

Interesting stuff, thanks for posting!

In the 1970s, for train spotting purposes, we travelled from Oxford to Bletchley, and from Oxford to Cambridge, on the bus services; The latter route did not run via Bletchley and Bedford but, IIRC Luton and definitely Hitchin (also a spotting location).

 

[midland1]

If you wanted to go from Oxford to Cambridge it was a 0700 start and not get there till 1230! If you left at 1000 it was still 4 hours 20 mins.

 

[Taunton]

I recall it was generally quicker and more frequent via Paddington and Kings Cross, even back in through train days.

The LNWR built the line to bring passengers and mail to Bletchley for connections north, and bring in freight, principally domestic coal, to major points along the line, in competition with the GWR, Midland and GNR. Didn't really consider end-to-end.

 

[30907]

Interesting stuff, thanks for posting!

In the 1970s, for train spotting purposes, we travelled from Oxford to Bletchley, and from Oxford to Cambridge, on the bus services; The latter route did not run via Bletchley and Bedford but, IIRC Luton and definitely Hitchin (also a spotting location).

Percivals/Premier Travel at 9.15 and ?18.15 from Gloucester Green took 3 hours.
Briefly in the early 60s the LMR tried running through trains (DMU?) from Oxford to Cambridge, and the fastest took just over 2hr. Up till then the line had been operated in 2 separate halves (2 separate tables in the timetable!).

 

[RT4038]

If you wanted to go from Oxford to Cambridge it was a 0700 start and not get there till 1230! If you left at 1000 it was still 4 hours 20 mins.

Alternatively, you'd have taken the 07h45 no. 131 bus from Oxford to Bedford, due 10h43 and changed to the 10h50 no. 128 bus from Bedford to Cambridge due 12h26

 

[Magdalia]

Percivals/Premier Travel at 9.15 and ?18.15 from Gloucester Green took 3 hours.
Briefly in the early 60s the LMR tried running through trains (DMU?) from Oxford to Cambridge, and the fastest took just over 2hr. Up till then the line had been operated in 2 separate halves (2 separate tables in the timetable!).

The Percivals/Premier Travel Cambridge-Oxford coach service started in 1947.

Between 1968 and 1971 it was the rail substitution for Cambridge-Oxford journeys, even though it went via Luton. It received a grant and called at the Cambridge and Oxford railway stations.

Bletchley-Oxford and Bletchley-Cambridge were two separate LNWR branches. Only being able to cross the West Coast Main Line traffic on the flat was the main reason for that.

It was the thinning out of West Coast Main Line traffic for electrification work that enabled the through Cambridge-Oxford trains to run, starting in 1962.

 

[DarloRich]

interestingly the timetable then and the timetable now on the Marston Vale section is little changed. We start a bit earlier and finish a bit later but otherwise the same.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you wanted to go from Oxford to Cambridge it was a 0700 start and not get there till 1230! If you left at 1000 it was still 4 hours 20 mins.

You'd go via London. You probably still would even after full EWR opens unless you prioritised a direct service or it's particularly cheap. It's similarly why lopping the X5 at Bedford hasn't had that much of an effect - hardly anyone travelled through anyway as despite it being cheap the journey is too long, and people can cope with a change to save money anyway (and without toilets you'll want a break half way anyway).

EWR is, like say the Liverpool-Norwich service, primarily about overlapping intermediate journeys and about commuting at each end. The image of mortarboarded and gowned professors sitting round a table with their wicker picnic basket, tablecloth and cucumber sandwiches is a wonderful one (and to be fair GWR uses that sort of imagery in one of the best advertising campaigns I think the railway has ever seen, featuring the Famous 5), but it's not what things will really be like in terms of the line's usage profile. It'll look a lot more like the "XC lite" Class 170 services a bit further north, though hopefully with a bit less overcrowding.

Notably Milton Keynes is a key anchor and was totally absent at the point the line was closed (bar a tiny village of the same name). Like Skelmersdale one can't help but wonder if these lines would have survived had the New Towns been started ten years earlier, though there was this original ideal that they'd be self contained so perhaps not.

 

[70014IronDuke]

... Notably Milton Keynes is a key anchor and was totally absent at the point the line was closed (bar a tiny village of the same name). Like Skelmersdale one can't help but wonder if these lines would have survived had the New Towns been started ten years earlier, though there was this original ideal that they'd be self contained so perhaps not.

Indeed. Even people in Bletchley hadn't even heard of Milton Keynes. But, absurdly, its expansion had been announced before the closure of the LNW branch(es). Still, in those days, the car was the present and future.

 

[RT4038]

The image of mortarboarded and gowned professors sitting round a table with their wicker picnic basket, tablecloth and cucumber sandwiches is a wonderful one (and to be fair GWR uses that sort of imagery in one of the best advertising campaigns I think the railway has ever seen, featuring the Famous 5), but it's not what things will really be like in terms of the line's usage profile.

Particularly as the two Universities are serious rivals, so the professors (or the undergraduates) going to see each other is fairly unlikely! Bit like connecting Bournemouth and Weston super Mare because they are both seaside resorts.......

When the line shut there were only two places of any size intermediately - Bedford, a market town with some substantial industry, and Bicester, a small market town with some forces bases nearby, both situated on other more important lines with no interchange anyway. The junctions at Bletchley and Sandy and their small towns had very little or no long distance interchange business by then. Buses had taken most of the intermediate business long before, except in parts of the Marston Vale where a substantial local train service was run, primarily for local commuting to and from Bedford.

 

[Magdalia]

I am just young enough to not remember the old Cambridge-Oxford railway (though I do remember passenger trains to St Ives). But that does mean that I can remember what Cambridge was like in 1967.

The image of mortarboarded and gowned professors sitting round a table with their wicker picnic basket, tablecloth and cucumber sandwiches is a wonderful one

Particularly as the two Universities are serious rivals, so the professors (or the undergraduates) going to see each other is fairly unlikely!

That image might have had a grain of truth in 1967, but its only relevance now is in TV period dramas.

You'd go via London.

There is already a sizeable flow by rail between Cambridge and Oxford via London, as shown by the 2023-24 numbers. From the Cambridge end, Oxford is 38th on the flows list, and already ahead of Birmingham. From the Oxford end, Cambridge is 22nd, and already ahead of Basingstoke and Southampton.

Bit like connecting Bournemouth and Weston super Mare because they are both seaside resorts.......

No, it is not like that at all.

What matters now for Cambridge-Oxford connectivity is the high tech businesses that have grown up in and around both cities, businesses that did not exist in 1967. Nearly all of them didn't exist in 2007! Cambridge businesses don't just want to meet with Cambridge academics and researchers, they want to meet with Oxford academics and researchers too. Similarly Oxford businesses don't just want to meet with Oxford academics and researchers, they want to meet with Cambridge academics and researchers too. Some of that can be done online, but that does also mean a lot of travelling between Cambridge and Oxford.

And even amongst the academics and researchers there is a lot more collaboration between Cambridge and Oxford. More of that might have happened in the 1960s if the connectivity had not been so poor. Undergraduates won't be a significant part of that, but postgraduates and researchers will.

EWR is, like say the Liverpool-Norwich service, primarily about overlapping intermediate journeys and about commuting at each end.

The commuting will be EWR's bread and butter, but the end to end flow will be important and will be catered for. EWR's expected end to end journey time is about 95-100 minutes, significantly faster than via London now, or via the old Varsity line in 1967, when the 2 "fast" trains in each direction took almost exactly 2 hours. Cambridge-Oxford will be restarting with more end to end journeys than Cambridge-Birmingham or Oxford-Southampton. It will grow rapidly when the line opens and then carry on growing along with economic activity in and around both cities.

 

[HaxbyTraveller]

I am just young enough to not remember the old Cambridge-Oxford railway (though I do remember passenger trains to St Ives). But that does mean that I can remember what Cambridge was like in 1967.





That image might have had a grain of truth in 1967, but its only relevance now is in TV period dramas.


There is already a sizeable flow by rail between Cambridge and Oxford via London, as shown by the 2023-24 numbers. From the Cambridge end, Oxford is 38th on the flows list, and already ahead of Birmingham. From the Oxford end, Cambridge is 22nd, and already ahead of Basingstoke and Southampton.


No, it is not like that at all.

What matters now for Cambridge-Oxford connectivity is the high tech businesses that have grown up in and around both cities, businesses that did not exist in 1967. Nearly all of them didn't exist in 2007! Cambridge businesses don't just want to meet with Cambridge academics and researchers, they want to meet with Oxford academics and researchers too. Similarly Oxford businesses don't just want to meet with Oxford academics and researchers, they want to meet with Cambridge academics and researchers too. Some of that can be done online, but that does also mean a lot of travelling between Cambridge and Oxford.

And even amongst the academics and researchers there is a lot more collaboration between Cambridge and Oxford. More of that might have happened in the 1960s if the connectivity had not been so poor. Undergraduates won't be a significant part of that, but postgraduates and researchers will.


The commuting will be EWR's bread and butter, but the end to end flow will be important and will be catered for. EWR's expected end to end journey time is about 95-100 minutes, significantly faster than via London now, or via the old Varsity line in 1967, when the 2 "fast" trains in each direction took almost exactly 2 hours. Cambridge-Oxford will be restarting with more end to end journeys than Cambridge-Birmingham or Oxford-Southampton. It will grow rapidly when the line opens and then carry on growing along with economic activity in and around both cities.

Of course a similar University line connecting Liverpool Uni, Manchester, Leeds(and Bradford), York and Hull would be impossible to contemplate since our politicians aren't sure that there is much intellectual life beyond the OxBridge corridor. A reliable, quality service between universities with vision is something to dream about.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Of course a similar University line connecting Liverpool Uni, Manchester, Leeds(and Bradford), York and Hull would be impossible to contemplate since our politicians aren't sure that there is much intellectual life beyond the OxBridge corridor. A reliable, quality service between universities with vision is something to dream about.

Umm, is TransPennine Express a mirage?

One thing that can be said for the North's rail network is that connectivity is a lot better even if frequencies, lengths, speeds etc are not. The South East's rail network is pretty much only set up for getting people to London. Public transport between regional centres that aren't London in the SE is utterly woeful. Much of the time travelling via London is quicker, but because of not wanting to create fares anomalies it's usually swingeingly expensive. So people just drive.

 

[bspahh]

What matters now for Cambridge-Oxford connectivity is the high tech businesses that have grown up in and around both cities, businesses that did not exist in 1967. Nearly all of them didn't exist in 2007! Cambridge businesses don't just want to meet with Cambridge academics and researchers, they want to meet with Oxford academics and researchers too. Similarly Oxford businesses don't just want to meet with Oxford academics and researchers, they want to meet with Cambridge academics and researchers too. Some of that can be done online, but that does also mean a lot of travelling between Cambridge and Oxford.

Technology and science work tends to be specialised. A PhD/DPhil is where "You learn more and more, about less and less, until you know absolutely everything about absolutely nothing."

The appeal of a hub like Cambridge, Boston/Cambridge, and the Bay Area is that you can have a specialised career, and have a chance of getting a similar job without having to move house. It also means that if you have a partner with a similarly specialised profession, they can also have a career.

A significant minority of people at science companies are immigrants. Many of these had come to the UK for University but stayed, paying our taxes, and helping our economy. I did some work for a company where I was in a room where there was one other native Brit. The others were Canadian, Irish, Swiss, Chinese, German, Bulgarian and Australian.

Some of these immigrants will be happy to commute by car, but a significant minority won't.

At the moment, to be able to commute by public transport to either the Oxford or Cambridge areas, you need to live in London.

 

[Magdalia]

a similar University line connecting Liverpool Uni, Manchester, Leeds(and Bradford), York and Hull

A line linking Liverpool, Manchester and Leeds exists, and it didn't get closed in 1967.

But I'd agree that connectivity between those places is important. Investment in the Trans Pennine route is long overdue, but it is happening.

It also means that if you have a partner with a similarly specialised profession, they can also have a career.

This is a particularly important point. East West Rail is going to mean that one partner can work in Cambridge while the other works in Oxford.

Mobility is hugely important too. The way to get economic growth is for people to be able to become more productive by moving to better jobs. People being able to change jobs from Cambridge to Oxford, or vice versa, without having to move house will boost GDP (the same applies with Liverpool, Manchester and Leeds).

 

[Bletchleyite]

This is a particularly important point. East West Rail is going to mean that one partner can work in Cambridge while the other works in Oxford.

Or Milton Keynes. Don't understate how important to the whole viability of the project MK is. It's basically the anchor for the whole thing.

I suspect also Bletchley house prices may be on the up once it becomes a decent* place to live for commuting to Oxford and Cambridge. And I reckon in 10 years Winslow will look rather like Bicester.

* The centre is grim and some parts are rough, but the bits near the station are mostly quite pleasant leafy middle class type places, particularly when you head up Sherwood Drive, and now the ugly Melrose flats and their associated antisocial behaviour are gone that bit feels on the up too.

 

[Taunton]

Of course a similar University line connecting Liverpool Uni, Manchester, Leeds(and Bradford), York and Hull would be impossible to contemplate since our politicians aren't sure that there is much intellectual life beyond the OxBridge corridor. A reliable, quality service between universities with vision is something to dream about.

I seem to remember the elegant Class 124 diesels were built to connect all of these hourly in 1960. We even jokingly, visiting (now university) ex-schoolfriends in Leeds in the 1970s, referred to them as "Hull Buffet Expresses".

 

[Magdalia]

Or Milton Keynes. Don't understate how important to the whole viability of the project MK is. It's basically the anchor for the whole thing.

I suspect also Bletchley house prices may be on the up once it becomes a decent* place to live for commuting to Oxford and Cambridge. And I reckon in 10 years Winslow will look rather like Bicester.

* The centre is grim and some parts are rough, but the bits near the station are mostly quite pleasant leafy middle class type places, particularly when you head up Sherwood Drive, and now the ugly Melrose flats and their associated antisocial behaviour are gone that bit feels on the up too.

I'm not sure I'd go as far as saying that MK was the anchor, but I agree that EWR will have a huge impact there.

I don't know Bicester or Winslow but I do expect a lot of development, they will be Oxford's equivalents of Cambourne and Tempsford for Cambridge.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm not sure I'd go as far as saying that MK was the anchor

I think it's the key difference between now and 1968, and the reason why the line is viable now and wasn't then.

 

[Magdalia]

I think it's the key difference between now and 1968, and the reason why the line is viable now and wasn't then.

No, the key difference is the high tech economic boom in and around Cambridge and Oxford. East West Rail is only happening to feed that economic growth.

If MK was the key difference EWR would have been up and running for years.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No, the key difference is the high tech economic boom in and around Cambridge and Oxford. East West Rail is only happening to feed that economic growth.

If MK was the key difference EWR would have been up and running for years.

I disagree. Simply getting between the two cities is easily done via London, and many will continue to do that anyway.

 

[bspahh]

I disagree. Simply getting between the two cities is easily done via London, and many will continue to do that anyway.

Getting from Oxford to Cambridge is easy. Having a couple where one works in Oxford and the other in Cambridge, commuting by public transport means you need to live in London, and have two season tickets.

The other attraction is to have cheaper housing that is commutable to Cambridge.

I was lucky and happened to buy a house in 1997. That was in Abingdon. I then moved to Ely in 1999. Then I could have afforded a nice house in a nasty part of Cambridge, or a nasty house in a nice part, or a nice house in a nice part of Ely. Today, in a similar position, I would be living in Downham Market.

 

[Magdalia]

I disagree. Simply getting between the two cities is easily done via London, and many will continue to do that anyway.

It is the rapid economic growth in Cambridge that has changed East West Rail into a "must have". 15 years ago the Cambridge Biomedical Campus was fields, now it has more than 20k jobs and will probably grow to double that. 15 years ago the area around the main Cambridge station was a tip, now it has more than 15k jobs.

I then moved to Ely in 1999. Then I could have afforded a nice house in a nasty part of Cambridge, or a nasty house in a nice part, or a nice house in a nice part of Ely. Today, in a similar position, I would be living in Downham Market.

That growth has put huge pressure on the local housing market. Future expansion needs more houses, more transport and more water. East West Rail now has "double stamps" with houses at Cambourne and Tempsford for Cambridge commuting plus the Cambridge-Oxford connectivity that's needed to maximise economic growth in Cambridge and Oxford. Yes, people can and do go via London, but it is a hindrance to doing business, and a hindrance to job mobility. Once EWR opens, EWR will be what people use to get between Cambridge and Oxford, and there will be lots more of them than now.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I seem to remember the elegant Class 124 diesels were built to connect all of these hourly in 1960. We even jokingly, visiting (now university) ex-schoolfriends in Leeds in the 1970s, referred to them as "Hull Buffet Expresses".

I'm sure I'm not the only one who sat the NUJMB exams, representing the northern universities of Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds, Sheffield and Birmingham.
This was before even the "Transpennine" 124s and the Beeching era.
Today's TRU links all these, although Sheffield is off-centre and has lost its former main line over the Pennines.
Britain's nuclear programme was built from a joint Liverpool/Manchester Uni project (at Risley on the CLC, and now at Daresbury (Halton/Warrington).

 

[Doctor Fegg]

A significant minority of people at science companies are immigrants. Many of these had come to the UK for University but stayed, paying our taxes, and helping our economy. I did some work for a company where I was in a room where there was one other native Brit. The others were Canadian, Irish, Swiss, Chinese, German, Bulgarian and Australian.

Some of these immigrants will be happy to commute by car, but a significant minority won't.

This is a crucial point. I spoke to someone a few years ago who was consulting on travel plans for employers in the Science Vale area (the Abingdon/Didcot belt, including Culham and Harwell). They saw good public transport and active travel infrastructure as critical to the success of their local operations - the European scientists working on the various projects expected it.

 

[70014IronDuke]

I am just young enough to not remember the old Cambridge-Oxford railway (though I do remember passenger trains to St Ives). But that does mean that I can remember what Cambridge was like in 1967.

Pah! Whippersnapper!
I am just old enough to remember being on the last scheduled Cambridge - Bletchley service. With a mate. I was a Saturday night, IIRC. I think we were the only two railway enthusiasts on the train - at least nobody else seemed to be taking much interest in the journey, as I remember.

 

[HaxbyTraveller]

Umm, is TransPennine Express a mirage?

One thing that can be said for the North's rail network is that connectivity is a lot better even if frequencies, lengths, speeds etc are not. The South East's rail network is pretty much only set up for getting people to London. Public transport between regional centres that aren't London in the SE is utterly woeful. Much of the time travelling via London is quicker, but because of not wanting to create fares anomalies it's usually swingeingly expensive. So people just drive.

Well the Express part is

Unfortunately I understand people have found the trans-pennine service is not one to rely on. I'm lucky not to have to commute.
I do sympathise this the London-centric approach to planning in the South; but it does often feel that any investment is funnelled into the southern part of the country and the promises made to the North are like snow in Summer. Boris - a consummate politician whatever you may think of him (don't get me started) - recognised the discontent and promised a levelling up agenda and won loads of votes. Of course it was all pie in the sky.