East-West Rail (EWR): What might the potential fares structure look like?

[storesman]

As the line is making progress does anyone know or have an opinion on what the fare structure might be? I live near the Winslow station and tomorrow will get an off-peak day return from Bicester to Oxford for £2.65 with a Network railcard. Thinking about this purely in terms of distance, I'd expect the Winslow fare to be at most double this but have no data to base this on. Anybody get any better way of estimating or an details on what the price is going to be? The only link I've found is a declined FOI request to Network Rail who correctly said they don't set fares.

 

[12LDA28C]

As the line is making progress does anyone know or have an opinion on what the fare structure might be? I live near the Winslow station and tomorrow will get an off-peak day return from Bicester to Oxford for £2.65 with a Network railcard. Thinking about this purely in terms of distance, I'd expect the Winslow fare to be at most double this but have no data to base this on. Anybody get any better way of estimating or an details on what the price is going to be? The only link I've found is a declined FOI request to Network Rail who correctly said they don't set fares.

As services aren't expected to commence until May 2025 I would say it's far too early to obtain any accurate information about fares at this stage and any speculation would be pointless.

 

[grinderx]

As the line is making progress does anyone know or have an opinion on what the fare structure might be? I live near the Winslow station and tomorrow will get an off-peak day return from Bicester to Oxford for £2.65 with a Network railcard. Thinking about this purely in terms of distance, I'd expect the Winslow fare to be at most double this but have no data to base this on. Anybody get any better way of estimating or an details on what the price is going to be? The only link I've found is a declined FOI request to Network Rail who correctly said they don't set fares.

There isn't a simple correlation between distance and price in the UK. There are even situations where you'd expect a monotonic increase but actually find a decrease. Some of this is down to the way fares are computed due to groups, clusters, subsidy and historical stuff.

I'd be curious what the impact will be on other fares as there will now be routes that were not possible before and different distribution of revenue. Those impacts might influence local fares.

If only we just paid a fare based on mileage...

 

[BlueLeanie]

As the line is making progress does anyone know or have an opinion on what the fare structure might be? I live near the Winslow station and tomorrow will get an off-peak day return from Bicester to Oxford for £2.65 with a Network railcard. Thinking about this purely in terms of distance, I'd expect the Winslow fare to be at most double this but have no data to base this on. Anybody get any better way of estimating or an details on what the price is going to be? The only link I've found is a declined FOI request to Network Rail who correctly said they don't set fares.

It's a very good question.

So many different influences though, going back to the days of reopening by Network South East and Oxfordshire County Council. Rail fares set to be competitive with Bus Services from Bicester to Oxford, and from Oxford Parkway to Oxford.

Just going by comparable journeys, Banbury, Winslow, Reading & Thame are all approximately the same time/distance from Oxford by train. The peak return fares seem to vary considerably though. £20 from Reading, £15 from Banbury and £12 from Haddenham.

An off-peak return with a Network Railcard from Haddenham to Oxford is £4.85, so your estimate of £5.30 from Winslow is probably pretty close to target.

 

[storesman]

It's a very good question.

So many different influences though, going back to the days of reopening by Network South East and Oxfordshire County Council. Rail fares set to be competitive with Bus Services from Bicester to Oxford, and from Oxford Parkway to Oxford.

Just going by comparable journeys, Banbury, Winslow, Reading & Thame are all approximately the same time/distance from Oxford by train. The peak return fares seem to vary considerably though. £20 from Reading, £15 from Banbury and £12 from Haddenham.

An off-peak return with a Network Railcard from Haddenham to Oxford is £4.85, so your estimate of £5.30 from Winslow is probably pretty close to target

Thanks for this - hopefully will be closer to Haddenham. Only been waiting for the trains to arrive it since 2013, so a couple more years won't make much of a difference.

 

[A S Leib]

Presumably there'd be more 'not via London' fares introduced, so instead of e.g. just the option of £60.20 for an off-peak day return from Oxford to Bedford there'd also be a 'not via London' option. No idea if there'd be a 'not via Reading' (or 'via Winslow', to avoid routes via Birmingham) option for e.g. Swindon or Bristol to Milton Keynes or if splitting further east would be needed.

 

[CyrusWuff]

I suspect that whatever happens, it will result in people being unhappy!

London - Oxford - Bicester is currently artificially low as GWR are pricing it as if it was still a 30mph low frequency branch line.

London - Didcot Parkway is £39.20 for the Anytime Day Single (SDS), £31.80 for the Off-Peak Day Return (CDR) and £77.30 for the Anytime Day Return (SDR.)

London - Oxford fares are identical, as are London - Oxford - Bicester.

Things are made trickier by Euston - Bletchley being in Phase 1 of Project Oval, however, so it's going to be an absolute mess!

 

[JonathanH]

Given that they still haven't sorted out fares via Bicester between GWR and Chiltern destinations, I can imagine that through fares may not be defined via EWR either.

Presumably there'd be more 'not via London' fares introduced, so instead of e.g. just the option of £60.20 for an off-peak day return from Oxford to Bedford there'd also be a 'not via London' option.

It may just be left at £60.20. There will be some stakeholders who don't want new infrastructure leading to lower fares.

 

[A S Leib]

Given that they still haven't sorted out fares via Bicester between GWR and Chiltern destinations, I can imagine that through fares may not be defined via EWR either.


It may just be left at £60.20. There will be some stakeholders who don't want new infrastructure leading to lower fares.

Although presumably the £61.30 off-peak not via London return from Bicester Village to Milton Keynes would have a cheaper option (I'm also not sure why that fare's set by CrossCountry; Avanti would make more sense if it's valid via Birmingham Moor Street and WMT if it can only be used as far northwest as Coventry).

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Presumably there'd be more 'not via London' fares introduced, so instead of e.g. just the option of £60.20 for an off-peak day return from Oxford to Bedford there'd also be a 'not via London' option. No idea if there'd be a 'not via Reading' (or 'via Winslow', to avoid routes via Birmingham) option for e.g. Swindon or Bristol to Milton Keynes or if splitting further east would be needed.

We still don’t have “not London” fares from the Cotswold Line to Chiltern destinations such as High Wycombe several years after the Bicester chord opened, so don’t bet on it.

 

[storesman]

I suspect that whatever happens, it will result in people being unhappy!

London - Oxford - Bicester is currently artificially low as GWR are pricing it as if it was still a 30mph low frequency branch line.

London - Didcot Parkway is £39.20 for the Anytime Day Single (SDS), £31.80 for the Off-Peak Day Return (CDR) and £77.30 for the Anytime Day Return (SDR.)

London - Oxford fares are identical, as are London - Oxford - Bicester.

Things are made trickier by Euston - Bletchley being in Phase 1 of Project Oval, however, so it's going to be an absolute mess!

I’m new to this but why would Project Oval Make things tricker? Could people get a cheaper fair to Bletchley and then hope to Bicester?

 

[CyrusWuff]

I’m new to this but why would Project Oval Make things tricker? Could people get a cheaper fair to Bletchley and then hope to Bicester?

Fares from Bletchley (and Milton Keynes and the Marston Vale line) towards London are set using Oval rules, with Singles being half the price of the equivalent Return.

Fares at the Bicester end are set using the pricing rules inherited from Network SouthEast, with Singles being as little as 10p cheaper than the equivalent Return.

That makes things messy for through fares, so I wouldn't be surprised if there were fares routed via Bletchley and via High Wycombe as well as Any Permitted (or "." as it will likely be.)

 

[storesman]

Fares from Bletchley (and Milton Keynes and the Marston Vale line) towards London are set using Oval rules, with Singles being half the price of the equivalent Return.

Fares at the Bicester end are set using the pricing rules inherited from Network SouthEast, with Singles being as little as 10p cheaper than the equivalent Return.

That makes things messy for through fares, so I wouldn't be surprised if there were fares routed via Bletchley and via High Wycombe as well as Any Permitted (or "." as it will likely be.)

So does that mean that other tickets (e.g. one day travelcard, advanced) also disappear? Is this already in place for MKC or does it arrive in the next few months?

 

[JonathanH]

So does that mean that other tickets (e.g. one day travelcard, advanced) also disappear? Is this already in place for MKC or does it arrive in the next few months?

One day travelcard has not been removed by Prohect Oval. It may well be expected that a one day travelcard fare will be set from Winslow.

Advance fares from Bletchley to London were withdrawn.

It isn't already in place for Milton Keynes. Probably from 2025 instead. As Oxford isn't indicated to be in the Project Oval area, it is unlikely that EWR to the West of Bletchley will be set up with a Project Oval type fare structure.

One other interesting question about fares on EWR is the limited capacity of the two car 196s. What fare may be set to ensure the services aren't too busy from day 1?