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East-West Rail (EWR): Consultation updates [not speculation]

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richieb1971

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Some quotes from the Bedford rail campaigners lobbying for EMT services to be re-instated said this about EWR -

"I am definitely in favour. Bedford and Cambridge are only 25 miles apart. With a decent public transport link between the two Bedford residents could make use of the booming employment opportunities in Cambridge. Sadly at present the only option is to drive (Cambridge has no parking and terrible traffic congestion) or an "express" coach service that in the rush hour takes upwards of two hours".

"Absolutely. It’s quite frustrating to only have north/ south connections by rail".

" Sounds brilliant although from memory there have been rumblings about this happening for a few years now and nothing seems to get done? Absolutely in favour though"

"Totally support this. It would be brilliant to have"

"Personally, I’ll believe it when I see it !"

"I am personally wanting this. My mum lives near Kings Lynn, it will make it easier to travel via Cambridge if there was a train from Bedford, at the moment I have to get dropped off to Hitchin to change trains at Cambridge. But I will believe it when I see it."

"Yes please that would be great to have! Ridiculous that you can't go east West by train from Bedford"



So so far, 100% favour of EWR. These are quotes stated in the last hour, none have been omitted. Its absolutely fantastic to have a public that sees the benefits of EWR. My wife would go Bicester village every week :lol:
 
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mwmbwls

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Enabling works for phase 2 are going well. Track removal from Bicester to Claydon is complete and preparations are well advanced for the WCML Christmas blockade during which the OLE will be lowered under Bletchley Flyover, to facilitate all the remedial works on that structure next year. This includes permanently removing the connections from the flyover and the WCML OLE system.

This is just the pre-cursor to an extensive rebuilding programme of the Bletchley fly-over viaduct, I don't know if this has been mentioned before but the Institute of Civil Engineers hosted a lecture on the 28th June 2018 by East West Rail Alliance on Phase Two of the programme, including a fascinating section on the viaduct itself by Simon Croft. See the video on https://www.ice.org.uk/eventarchive/east-west-rail-london
This work will involve removing the track slabs to expose and replace the cantilevered support columns whose bearings are shot. This will involve a blockade at some point of the WCML and also major roads into Bletchley.
 
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Dunnyrail

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This is just the pre-cursor to an extensive rebuilding programme of the Bletchley fly-over viaduct, I don't know if this has been mentioned before but the Institute of Civil Engineers hosted a lecture on the 28th June 2018 by East West Rail Alliance on Phase Two of the programme, including a fascinating section on the viaduct itself by Simon Croft. See the video on https://www.ice.org.uk/eventarchive/east-west-rail-london
This work will involve removing the track slabs to expose and replace the cantilevered support columns whose bearings are shot. This will involve a blockade at some point of the WCML and also major roads into Bletchley.
Went past Bletchley a couple of weeks back and on looking at the Viaduct I did wonder if it would be fit for purpose. Clearly and unsurprisingly after all these years it is not without a lot being spent on it. Still at least onwards and forwards, we can look forward to Cambridge - Bedford in living memory now.

I fully believe that what ‘Hoover boy says in Post 2218’ is right on the mark.
 
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mwmbwls

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The backers of CamBedRailRoad have written a lettter to EWR...

http://www.royston-crow.co.uk/news/cbrr-letter-to-ewr-boss-1-5771489

We have now reached the stage where there are two conversations/consultations going on.

The Central section from Bicester to Bedford and Aylesbury to Milton Keynes subject to the TWAO public enquiry which will begin early in 2019. Lessons have been drawn from previous public enquiries, notably that involving the Ordsall Chord, that the completeness and coherence of the case presented and considered by the enquiry is critical. The Inspector will no doubt make clear what is “ultra vires”, that is, outwith the scope of this particular enquiry. I suspect that he may not wish to become embroiled in the debate about the Eastern Section of EWR – which as was pointed out at the Institute of Civil Engineers Lecture by the EWR team is subject to development by a separate team in York. Does anybody know whom/which organisation is managing that programme and if they have any published timetable?

What is apparent is that there are distinct views on the Eastern Section Route. Most recently East West Rail identified a route(s) via Sandy linking to a southern approach to Cambridge.

https://www.eastwestrail.org.uk/central-section-overview/

This link is mis-titled in so far as it discusses what is now defined as the eastern section of the EWR

“At this early stage of development, route options will not show construction ‘footprints’ or conceptual designs for infrastructure but are solely an incremental step in the feasibility process to inform the business case analysis. In due course, the preferred route will indicate, in general terms, how the proposed new railway will link the Bedford area to Cambridge.

The current programme would see a preferred route being selected during 2019 following several public consultation events which will be publicised in due course.

When will it open?

It was originally planned that trains would be operating on the new railway by the early 2030s. However, following the creation of the East West Railway Company, the Secretary of State has asked for this to be accelerated to the ‘mid 2020s’.

Why Sandy?

Twenty potential corridors between Bedford and Cambridge were carefully analysed by Network Rail, with input from a very wide range of stakeholders including the local authorities which make up the East West Rail Consortium.

The corridor via Sandy offered the best value in terms of economic benefits, reduced journey time between Oxford and Cambridge, population growth and employment in the area, operating costs for new services and forecast passenger demand. Local infrastructure and the wider impacts of the railway were also considered.

Work is now continuing to identify a more detailed route within this chosen corridor, and following this work, there will be a full public consultation on the proposals.”

The CamBed Railroad advocates a different approach with a route via St. Neots and an approach to Cambridge from the North and have lodged a holding letter with the forthcoming enquiry. Whether it will be a topic for discussion, or merely noted, may well become apparent during the pre-enquiry shake down meeting. It will no doubt become apparent soon.

http://www.cambedrailroad.org/fluidcms/files/files/Open-Letter-to-Mr-R-Brighouse.pdf

http://www.cambedrailroad.org/fluidcms/files/files/CamBedRailRoad-Proposal.pdf

From the limited data available in the public domain my view is that there is merit in both of those proposals with regard facilitating new development in Cambridgeshire. The CamBed proposal includes rail service provision for places such as Northstowe. Governments have traditionally not been good at providing links to New Towns:

Skelmersdale and Its Railway Lecture Slides by Mwmbwls, on Flickr

I fear that despite fluffy cloud statements about understanding the need for infrastructure, and rail to support new development there is often a gap between the espoused and effected. Putting off to a later day, as has been the case with the Peter Hendy inspired scope reductions on the Central Section, will generate, what bean counters such as myself describe as, squeezing the cost balloon - in that deferment invariably increases later costs.

There are no doubt counter-veiling arguments for a southern approach, which yet EWR have not put forward in detail. My key concern, however, is the accessibility of Cambridge. As a frequent visitor, I find the City difficult to access by car and coach and when there the fact that in Cambridge historical terms clashes with the upstart technology of the internal combustion engine, in terms of parking and air pollution. It does have a limited guided busway system, built some think, controversially, over the track-bed of a disused railway line. There were difficulties in building this link – as it was in effect almost the first of its type in the United Kingdom. All initial technology is notchy and the use of pre-cast concrete units instead of the continuous slip-form technique used on the later Leigh Guided Busway undoubted was a major factor in latter’s better ride. It will be interesting to see how the life-cycle maintenance/replacement costs mature on the two systems. It may be that Ultra-Light Rail technologies/ AI controlled systems emerge. As a city founded on experimental science, I feel Cambridge should be ready to be at the fore-front in this area.

The important thing is that the processes and experience to develop the central section are rolled over into the Eastern Sector as well as the experience we will undoubtedly gain from building HS2.

Discontinuity costs and due to the difficulties of extracting the tacit knowledge from the heads of those people who leave organisations when projects end – (The Futurama Concept of Talking Heads in Jars is still only a concept – although there are certain ministers I would like to volunteer as crash test dummies)

Momentum will be key. This will be an exciting ride.
 
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Bletchleyite

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major roads into Bletchley.

That'll be interesting, as the way round is really quite long (whichever of the two possibilities[1] you take).

[1] Duncombe St won't work, it'll have to be one of the main road routes. Removed the comment on pedestrians as they would be able to go that way.
 

Railwaysceptic

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https://www.eastwestrail.org.uk/central-section-overview/

This link is mis-titled in so far as it discusses what is now defined as the eastern section of the EWR
This depends totally on each person's understanding of what is meant by East West Rail. In East Anglia, the routes east from Cambridge to Norwich and Ipswich are regarded as the eastern section and the central section is Cambridge to Bedford. Bedford to Oxford is the western section.
 

eastdyke

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https://www.eastwestrail.org.uk/central-section-overview/
This link is mis-titled in so far as it discusses what is now defined as the eastern section of the EWR
Nomenclature is all important to avoid confusion!
Can you point to where the sections have been re-defined please?
AFAIK the section from Bedford/Milton Keynes to Bicester/Aylesbury is still known as Western Section Phase 2, Bedford-Cambridge as Central Section and East of Cambridge as Eastern Section.

As to onward consideration of Bedford-Cambridge I am still of the view that we need to know more of where the developments postulated by The National Infrastructure Commission will actually get built. The known developments to which you refer are but chicken feed in comparison to those.
 
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swt_passenger

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Accuracy is highly important here, otherwise when you get to comments such as “Hendy inspired scope reductions on the central section”, or “processes and experience to develop the central section are rolled over into the Eastern Sector” the reader just gets lost.

But let’s face it, confusion between section naming has been a constant issue during this relatively long thread.

It is for mwmbwls consideration that the thread is four years old and, (although the ICE lecture material is interesting), the main thrust of most of his later points have already been regularly made.
 
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HowardGWR

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Indeed and mwmbwls should perhaps note that he is referring to an Inquiry, not an 'enquiry'.
 
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DarloRich

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That'll be interesting, as the way round is really quite long (whichever of the two possibilities[1] you take).

[1] Duncombe St won't work, it'll have to be one of the main road routes. Removed the comment on pedestrians as they would be able to go that way.

assuming you close off B4034 you could easily send light traffic via A5> Watling Street> Fenny High Street ( Aylesbury Road ) and Water Eaton Road. Heavy Traffic into Bletchley would have to be Aylesbury Street and Queensway.

An avoiding route would be A5>Watling Street>Standing Way> Buckingham Road - that is quite a long way round

TBH they better put some proper traffic control in. Dont want wagons near my house ;)

@mwmbwls - i think you are being slightly misleading on the railway provision to MK. While you are right that MKC did not open for some time stations already existed at Bletchley, Wolverton and, Bow Brickhill & Fenny Stratford which all fall within MK.

Blethcley received an Intercity service and Wolverton a commuter service. Surely the opening of MKC was dependent on the commercial & business development within the town reaching such a state that the central station was needed!
 

MatthewRead

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We have now reached the stage where there are two conversations/consultations going on.

The Central section from Bicester to Bedford and Aylesbury to Milton Keynes subject to the TWAO public enquiry which will begin early in 2019. Lessons have been drawn from previous public enquiries, notably that involving the Ordsall Chord, that the completeness and coherence of the case presented and considered by the enquiry is critical. The Inspector will no doubt make clear what is “ultra vires”, that is, outwith the scope of this particular enquiry. I suspect that he may not wish to become embroiled in the debate about the Eastern Section of EWR – which as was pointed out at the Institute of Civil Engineers Lecture by the EWR team is subject to development by a separate team in York. Does anybody know whom/which organisation is managing that programme and if they have any published timetable?

What is apparent is that there are distinct views on the Eastern Section Route. Most recently East West Rail identified a route(s) via Sandy linking to a southern approach to Cambridge.

https://www.eastwestrail.org.uk/central-section-overview/

This link is mis-titled in so far as it discusses what is now defined as the eastern section of the EWR

“At this early stage of development, route options will not show construction ‘footprints’ or conceptual designs for infrastructure but are solely an incremental step in the feasibility process to inform the business case analysis. In due course, the preferred route will indicate, in general terms, how the proposed new railway will link the Bedford area to Cambridge.

The current programme would see a preferred route being selected during 2019 following several public consultation events which will be publicised in due course.

When will it open?

It was originally planned that trains would be operating on the new railway by the early 2030s. However, following the creation of the East West Railway Company, the Secretary of State has asked for this to be accelerated to the ‘mid 2020s’.

Why Sandy?

Twenty potential corridors between Bedford and Cambridge were carefully analysed by Network Rail, with input from a very wide range of stakeholders including the local authorities which make up the East West Rail Consortium.

The corridor via Sandy offered the best value in terms of economic benefits, reduced journey time between Oxford and Cambridge, population growth and employment in the area, operating costs for new services and forecast passenger demand. Local infrastructure and the wider impacts of the railway were also considered.

Work is now continuing to identify a more detailed route within this chosen corridor, and following this work, there will be a full public consultation on the proposals.”

The CamBed Railroad advocates a different approach with a route via St. Neots and an approach to Cambridge from the North and have lodged a holding letter with the forthcoming enquiry. Whether it will be a topic for discussion, or merely noted, may well become apparent during the pre-enquiry shake down meeting. It will no doubt become apparent soon.

http://www.cambedrailroad.org/fluidcms/files/files/Open-Letter-to-Mr-R-Brighouse.pdf

http://www.cambedrailroad.org/fluidcms/files/files/CamBedRailRoad-Proposal.pdf

From the limited data available in the public domain my view is that there is merit in both of those proposals with regard facilitating new development in Cambridgeshire. The CamBed proposal includes rail service provision for places such as Northstowe. Governments have traditionally not been good at providing links to New Towns:

Skelmersdale and Its Railway Lecture Slides by Mwmbwls, on Flickr

I fear that despite fluffy cloud statements about understanding the need for infrastructure, and rail to support new development there is often a gap between the espoused and effected. Putting off to a later day, as has been the case with the Peter Hendy inspired scope reductions on the Central Section, will generate, what bean counters such as myself describe as, squeezing the cost balloon - in that deferment invariably increases later costs.

There are no doubt counter-veiling arguments for a southern approach, which yet EWR have not put forward in detail. My key concern, however, is the accessibility of Cambridge. As a frequent visitor, I find the City difficult to access by car and coach and when there the fact that in Cambridge historical terms clashes with the upstart technology of the internal combustion engine, in terms of parking and air pollution. It does have a limited guided busway system, built some think, controversially, over the track-bed of a disused railway line. There were difficulties in building this link – as it was in effect almost the first of its type in the United Kingdom. All initial technology is notchy and the use of pre-cast concrete units instead of the continuous slip-form technique used on the later Leigh Guided Busway undoubted was a major factor in latter’s better ride. It will be interesting to see how the life-cycle maintenance/replacement costs mature on the two systems. It may be that Ultra-Light Rail technologies/ AI controlled systems emerge. As a city founded on experimental science, I feel Cambridge should be ready to be at the fore-front in this area.

The important thing is that the processes and experience to develop the central section are rolled over into the Eastern Sector as well as the experience we will undoubtedly gain from building HS2.

Discontinuity costs and due to the difficulties of extracting the tacit knowledge from the heads of those people who leave organisations when projects end – (The Futurama Concept of Talking Heads in Jars is still only a concept – although there are certain ministers I would like to volunteer as crash test dummies)

Momentum will be key. This will be an exciting ride.
I thought the line to Southend Central was electrified in 1961 so Basildon opened 13 years after.
 

jimm

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@mwmbwls - i think you are being slightly misleading on the railway provision to MK. While you are right that MKC did not open for some time stations already existed at Bletchley, Wolverton and, Bow Brickhill & Fenny Stratford which all fall within MK.

Blethcley received an Intercity service and Wolverton a commuter service. Surely the opening of MKC was dependent on the commercial & business development within the town reaching such a state that the central station was needed!

Absolutely right - and no different from other new towns. Development of Telford in Shropshire began a bit earlier than Milton Keynes but Telford Central station did not open until 1986 - with trains using the existing stations at Wellington (where longer-distance trains still call), Oakengates and New Hadley (the latter shut once Central opened) until then. By 1986 the shopping centre, bus station, trading estate, ice rink and new housing had been built in the vicinity of the new station's location.

Other bits of major infrastructure took a while to appear in new towns as well. Telford's Princess Royal Hospital did not open until 1989.
 

gallafent

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TBH they better put some proper traffic control in. Dont want wagons near my house ;)

It seems you might not be the only one ;)

https://www.oxfordtimes.co.uk/news/17280337.councils-worries-over-future-east-west-rail-development/
"TWO Oxfordshire councils have told Government they are objecting to a critical part of the East West Rail project – because worries haven’t been addressed.
"Oxfordshire County Council and Cherwell District Council’s leaders have written to the transport secretary Chris Grayling outlining concerns over work between Bicester Village and Bedford.
"Ian Hudspeth and Barry Wood say they worry some Government work in a key document is ‘misleading’ and needs more work.
[...]
 

gallafent

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swt_passenger

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It seems you might not be the only one ;)

https://www.oxfordtimes.co.uk/news/17280337.councils-worries-over-future-east-west-rail-development/
"TWO Oxfordshire councils have told Government they are objecting to a critical part of the East West Rail project – because worries haven’t been addressed.
"Oxfordshire County Council and Cherwell District Council’s leaders have written to the transport secretary Chris Grayling outlining concerns over work between Bicester Village and Bedford.
"Ian Hudspeth and Barry Wood say they worry some Government work in a key document is ‘misleading’ and needs more work.
[...]
Wouldn’t it be more useful to present their case at the TWA inquiry? (Although thanks to jimm’s later research that is exactly what is being advised.)
 
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richieb1971

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Stopping a huge railway project on the basis of a year of heavy and light load traffic coming and going seems a weak argument.

I would have thought most of the load can be carried by train.
 

Bald Rick

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Stopping a huge railway project on the basis of a year of heavy and light load traffic coming and going seems a weak argument.

It is one of the biggest issues faced by those of us having to build railways. It’s just about materials though, if you have a thousand people working on it and there’s no railway there, that’s a lot of extra vans on the road. And of course you can’t get the basic civils done without a lot of lorry traffic.
 

DarloRich

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Both need building. Any suggestions of road spending o thos board causes melt down but overlooks the fact the railway receives c.13bn and highways around 4.5bn
 

richieb1971

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It is one of the biggest issues faced by those of us having to build railways. It’s just about materials though, if you have a thousand people working on it and there’s no railway there, that’s a lot of extra vans on the road. And of course you can’t get the basic civils done without a lot of lorry traffic.

Is it possible to lay track ahead of a train? Was it not possible to use the mothballed track for an engineer's train to lay another track beside it?
 
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How did they manage to build thousands of miles of railway across remote countryside when there were no proper roads? Any excuse not to do it. And as for the expressway, it will never happen. Just years of consultations, inquiries, reports and amendments just like Stonehenge and many other major projects.
 

Bald Rick

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Is it possible to lay track ahead of a train? Was it not possible to use the mothballed track for an engineer's train to lay another track beside it?

For tracklaying yes. But you need all the formation in place first, and that’s the heavy stuff.
 

Bald Rick

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How did they manage to build thousands of miles of railway across remote countryside when there were no proper roads? Any excuse not to do it. And as for the expressway, it will never happen. Just years of consultations, inquiries, reports and amendments just like Stonehenge and many other major projects.

I imagine with great difficulty, great determination and great ingenuity.

Firstly there were proper roads, just not many of them.

But they did it with thousands of (mostly Irish) navvies, horses, and plenty of fatalities. And being open countryside there were very few obstacles to avoid that weren’t natural.
 

Brush 4

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There are stone wagons, including side tippers. There are road/rail diggers and Land Rovers. There are well wagons for diggers and JCB's that can take them to each site, where they can trundle along the second trackbed doing their work. Lorries can use the trackbed in between level crossings and be carried by train as well. Lay the second track from the existing one, like singling a line but in reverse. There are ways around 'problems' if they want there to be.
 

richieb1971

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If HS1, HS2 and tunnelling through most of London is possible then this project should be a breeze.
 
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