EMR Fleet Refurbishment

[Aspen90]

So it’s been 3 years since EMR took over the franchise and not one train has been refurbished yet, even though they say they’re investing £600m throughout the business. Does anybody know what’s going on?

 

[johnw]

It’s called Wellingborough customers paying Intercity fares for ex Great Eastern units, I just travel from Bedford or MKC.

 

[fgwrich]

So it’s been 3 years since EMR took over the franchise and not one train has been refurbished yet, even though they say they’re investing £600m throughout the business. Does anybody know what’s going on?

Answer: The DfT.

They control the purse strings these days (well the Treasury does), and that is the problem. I’m sure Abellio would like to have refurbished a number of its fleets right now, but everything now has costed and signed off by the DfT and there in-lies problem. And after Covid, the treasury / DfT has somewhat, unsurprisingly realised how expensive it is to run the railways when your paying out from your own piggy bank.

 

[BJames]

DfT not coughing up for anything.

I agree though. There are many complaints in threads throughout the forum, and I would love to see the branch lines get the refurbishment they deserve. 222s are apparently getting a light refresh.

Edit: I've just re-read that refresh document. The light refresh basically consists of refreshing the seat covers:

• 5300 seat covers to be refreshed or replaced
• Class 222 Intercity train toilets given new interiors
• First train operator to use new state-of-the art anti-bacterial product

I can't say I've noticed a huge difference in the toilets to be honest - but there are some very tired seat covers which certainly need replacing.

On this topic, the ex-4 car units which have had a first class carriage inserted - currently the composite carriage of standard and first is declassified - are the seats just going to be left now or are they actually being changed? I wondered if they would be as any operator who takes the fleet from EMR might want a bit of consistency. Its also left units such as 222104 with a declassified composite carriage but two full carriages of first - I travelled on it the other week and I could only see first declassified for the seats in the standard/first carriage.

 

[swt_passenger]

On this topic, the ex-4 car units which have had a first class carriage inserted - currently the composite carriage of standard and first is declassified - are the seats just going to be left now or are they actually being changed? I wondered if they would be as any operator who takes the fleet from EMR might want a bit of consistency. Its also left units such as 222104 with a declassified composite carriage but two full carriages of first - I travelled on it the other week and I could only see first declassified for the seats in the standard/first carriage.

I’d expect that to be left to either a future operator, or the owner, but not to be the responsibility of EMR now they’re on the way out..

 

[STINT47]

EMR probably can't justify changing any seats otherwise Meridians but they could at least do the basics such as keeping the fleet clean.

Watching at Derby it's really noticeable hoe much cleaner the exteriors are on the XC Voyagers compared to thd Meridians. Is there any reason why EMR do not appear to wash their trains other than the usual pony pinching znd incompetence of Avellio.

 

[MaidaVale]

EMR probably can't justify changing any seats otherwise Meridians but they could at least do the basics such as keeping the fleet clean.

Watching at Derby it's really noticeable hoe much cleaner the exteriors are on the XC Voyagers compared to thd Meridians. Is there any reason why EMR do not appear to wash their trains other than the usual pony pinching znd incompetence of Avellio.

XC Voyagers? Clean? Never seen that in all my years haha. I'd say they're fairly similar.

 

[Scott1]

Yep, got to agree, you really notice how dirty they are next to XC sets. It's always been a challenge, but seems worse these days. Internally they are never very clean either, a good carpet clean would do wonders.

 

[QSK19]

So it’s been 3 years since EMR took over the franchise and not one train has been refurbished yet, even though they say they’re investing £600m throughout the business. Does anybody know what’s going on?

Whilst the way EMR have run things has been farcical and very much style-over-substance (ie focussing so much effort on marketing/PR gimmicks such as Miles and not doing more to address shortformed/cancelled services after having overpromised beforehand) and I don’t think they’re being challenged enough to perform to acceptable standards (typified by Abellio being the only bidder remaining when it came to tendering the franchise), I do think that they have been the victim of unfortunate circumstances that has hamstrung them:

1) Their sister Abellio TOCs - WMR and GA - benefitted from super timing when it came to bidding for and introduction of those franchises. Both have benefitted from gleaming new trains (despite peoples’ differing opinions of them!), a full fleet replacement in GA’s case. When it came to EMR, the best available was an insufficient amount of new IC stock and a hodgepodge of half-knackered hand-me-downs from elsewhere. Same owner, very different circumstances for EMR compared to its sisters.

2) Refurbishments weren’t signed off before emergency measures came into place. Therefore, as others have said, any level of refurbishment is now under the complete control of the DfT, an entity that has never done any favours for the East Midlands rail network. I wouldn’t be surprised if the 170s and 360s receive no refurbishment at all given that there seems to be no money available for EMR (whereas, strangely enough, there does seem to be for refurbishments elsewhere, eg Northern or the 390s).

3) EMR have suffered from circumstances completely beyond their control. For example: the unforgivable, seemingly indefinite delay to the 196 introduction, which is preventing transfer of the rest of the much-needed 170/5s; the 360s arriving in run down condition from GA (which begs the question of whether lessees should be forced to return stock in an acceptable condition, but that’s for another thread); the ex-LNER HST debacle; and, of course, Covid.

EMR and its passengers (particularly its Connect and Regional ones) really do need and deserve some good fortune for once. Operations over the past 3 years have been dismal, and if the rumours from the 360 thread are true - that the Connect refurbishment will consist only of replacement seat coverings and installation of power sockets (ie 3+2 seating and a generally tired, grubby interior will remain) - future prospects look bleak.

 

[class397tpe]

Whilst the way EMR have run things has been farcical and very much style-over-substance (ie focussing so much effort on marketing/PR gimmicks such as Miles and not doing more to address shortformed/cancelled services after having overpromised beforehand) and I don’t think they’re being challenged enough to perform to acceptable standards (typified by Abellio being the only bidder remaining when it came to tendering the franchise), I do think that they have been the victim of unfortunate circumstances that has hamstrung them:

1) Their sister Abellio TOCs - WMR and GA - benefitted from super timing when it came to bidding for and introduction of those franchises. Both have benefitted from gleaming new trains (despite peoples’ differing opinions of them!), a full fleet replacement in GA’s case. When it came to EMR, the best available was an insufficient amount of new IC stock and a hodgepodge of half-knackered hand-me-downs from elsewhere. Same owner, very different circumstances for EMR compared to its sisters.

2) Refurbishments weren’t signed off before emergency measures came into place. Therefore, as others have said, any level of refurbishment is now under the complete control of the DfT, an entity that has never done any favours for the East Midlands rail network. I wouldn’t be surprised if the 170s and 360s receive no refurbishment at all given that there seems to be no money available for EMR (whereas, strangely enough, there does seem to be for refurbishments elsewhere, eg Northern or the 390s).

3) EMR have suffered from circumstances completely beyond their control. For example: the unforgivable, seemingly indefinite delay to the 196 introduction, which is preventing transfer of the rest of the much-needed 170/5s; the 360s arriving in run down condition from GA (which begs the question of whether lessees should be forced to return stock in an acceptable condition, but that’s for another thread); the ex-LNER HST debacle; and, of course, Covid.

EMR and its passengers (particularly its Connect and Regional ones) really do need and deserve some good fortune for once. Operations over the past 3 years have been dismal, and if the rumours from the 360 thread are true - that the Connect refurbishment will consist only of replacement seat coverings and installation of power sockets (ie 3+2 seating and a generally tired, grubby interior will remain) - future prospects look bleak.

I think the second point is really what stings - there seems to be plenty of money for other operators to refurbish or refresh their trains, e.g. TfW, GWR, Avanti (even managing to refresh tired voyagers), Northern, etc., but never any money for EMR to do the same. Same situation with XC whose voyagers badly need a refresh.

 

[Helvellyn]

The 360s would be acceptable for a refurb with the existing seats if the layout was changed to 2+2 with spacers (as SWT did on the 455s). I'd prefer to see the promised refurb with 810 style seats but if that really can't happen then the above would at least be a compromise.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The 360s would be acceptable for a refurb with the existing seats if the layout was changed to 2+2 with spacers (as SWT did on the 455s). I'd prefer to see the promised refurb with 810 style seats but if that really can't happen then the above would at least be a compromise.

Seat back tables are really not a big ask. Nor are armrests really.

 

[Helvellyn]

Seat back tables are really not a big ask. Nor are armrests really.

Maybe not but for either you need new seats. As I said, I hope the refurbishment as proposed happens. If not spacers and the existing seats changed to 2+2 would make them more bearable.

 

[Mikey C]

Elsewhere the SWT/SWR 707s have had all their seat covers changed to blue before entering service with Southeastern when they were perfectly fine as is, and far newer than the worn out Networker and 376 interiors!

 

[Aspen90]

EMR probably can't justify changing any seats otherwise Meridians but they could at least do the basics such as keeping the fleet clean.

Watching at Derby it's really noticeable hoe much cleaner the exteriors are on the XC Voyagers compared to thd Meridians. Is there any reason why EMR do not appear to wash their trains other than the usual pony pinching znd incompetence of Avellio.

I’ve heard it’s because Bombardier have got the hump that the new trains are Hitachi and won’t pay for the carriage wash at Derby to be repaired. EMR are saying they shouldn’t be paying for it as it’s Bombardiers responsibility.