End of an era - Last coal fired power station closing today (30/09/24)

[Class 317]

Today is the end of an era with the closure of the last coal fired power station in the UK. This makes the UK the first G7 country to do so.

Back in my school years in the late 90's I got taken to Tilbury power station as a school trip and it was fascinating to have a tour around the site.

I'll miss seeing the various power stations particularly heading up the east coast.

 

[40C]

Once again the Country is being shot in the foot by the idiots in charge, all in pursuit of this net-zero complete nonsense.

 

[DarloRich]

Once again the Country is being shot in the foot by the idiots in charge, all in pursuit of this net-zero complete nonsense.

Could you expand on that, explain why you hold such a position and what the alternative options are, in your opinion?

Looking at a national grid dashboard we are taking c.25% of our power from fossil fuels today. That is via gas. https://www.energydashboard.co.uk/live

Personally I would be more worried about the c.15% imported electricity rather than the c.12% coal generated electricity but each to their own.

 

[edwin_m]

Drove past Ratcliffe yesterday night and there was definitely some steam coming from the cooling towers, and it seemed to be working the day before.

 

[High Dyke]

There will be mixed opinions about this event. So, we're the first major economy to give it up. Equally, we can also hold the claim to the first country that gave the world coal power. Trivia: The first coal-fired power station in the world, the Holborn Viaduct power station, was built in 1882 in London by the inventor Thomas Edison - bringing light to the streets of the capital.

 

[Noddy]

Personally I’m very proud that our country is the first G7 country to give up coal, and it’s shows that occasionally we can still lead (kind of) the way! Roll on giving up gas!

 

[High Dyke]

Personally I’m very proud that our country is the first G7 country to give up coal, and it’s shows that occasionally we can still lead (kind of) the way! Roll on giving up gas!

Fair enough. What's the solution to energy provision, that's sufficient to supply the needs of the UK? If we import energy supplies from other countries like France and Scandinavian locations, then how do we ensure they are produced from clean and sustainable sources? For the sake of clarity I am not including nuclear power. Whilst it may be a sustainable source, it has waste that needs processing.

 

[Ailsa_Craig]

Fair enough. What's the solution to sustainable energy, that's sufficient to supply the needs of the UK? If we import energy supplies from other countries like France and Scandinavian locations, then how do we ensure they are produced from clean and sustainable sources? For the sake of clarity I am not including nuclear power. Whilst it may be a sustainable source, it has waste that needs processing.

Nothing to be proud of, the day that we abolished coal power and closed Port Talbot with the loss of 2800 jobs. It's not very often that I agree with a Union leader. He said we are importing virtue signalling and exporting jobs

 

[High Dyke]

Nothing to be proud of, the day that we abolished coal power and closed Port Talbot with the loss of 2800 jobs. It's not very often that I agree with a Union leader. He said we are importing virtue signalling and exporting jobs

I fully agree. I'm sure the process could've been managed better. In the case of Port Talbot, then why not start on the new Electric Arc furnace(s) before closing the Blast furnaces? Perhaps those with better knowledge of the industry may be able to explain better?

It's all well and good making gestures like phasing out coal fired power generation, but as I mentioned earlier, we need to have a suitable alternative in place, that isn't reliant on other countries. It will be interesting to see what progress other major economies make in phasing out reliance on coal power - though I suspect they'll just carry on without giving it a second thought.

 

[brad465]

I fully agree. I'm sure the process could've been managed better. In the case of Port Talbot, then why not start on the new Electric Arc furnace(s) before closing the Blast furnaces? Perhaps those with better knowledge of the industry may be able to explain better?

It's all well and good making gestures like phasing out coal fired power generation, but as I mentioned earlier, we need to have a suitable alternative in place, that isn't reliant on other countries. It will be interesting to see what progress other major economies make in phasing out reliance on coal power - though I suspect they'll just carry on without giving it a second thought.

Nothing to be proud of, the day that we abolished coal power and closed Port Talbot with the loss of 2800 jobs. It's not very often that I agree with a Union leader. He said we are importing virtue signalling and exporting jobs

Neoliberalism-driven globalisation did more to create the situation we are in than any green initiatives. Even the energy reserves supposedly in our territory (like North Sea gas) were sold to the highest bidder and its prices were set by the global market.

 

[Bald Rick]

My parents very nearly bought a house that was, quite literally, in the shadow of Ratcliffe. (The estate agents details somehow managed to forget to mention the power station). I imagine that house has suddenly increased in value a fair bit!

Sad to see it go from an industrial heritage perspective, but delighted to see it go from an environmental, economic and social persepctive.

 

[DarloRich]

Nothing to be proud of, the day that we abolished coal power and closed Port Talbot with the loss of 2800 jobs. It's not very often that I agree with a Union leader. He said we are importing virtue signalling and exporting jobs

Could you explain and expand on what you mean?

we need to have a suitable alternative in place, that isn't reliant on other countries.

We do: Nuclear, but you had to take that out of your list to make a point.

Today we made 36.5% of our electricity from wind, 12.9 from Nuclear and 23% from gas. The truth is we live in a windy country. There is lots of free energy potential there! We have a gap of, today, C.14% bought in via our connections to Europe that we will need to fill but, despite what Johnson might fantasise about, i don't think we will be at war with Holland anytime soon!

 

[gswindale]

Personally I think this is a great day for Great Britain.

We're making a clear effort to show some consideration for the environment.

What could have been done differently would be for those people who were inextricably opposed to the closures to have come up with their own ideas as to how to re-employ those unlucky enough to be losing jobs due to the closure (this seems to be symptomatic of the UK as a whole - complain, object but jot have a viable alternative solution).

 

[JamesT]

I fully agree. I'm sure the process could've been managed better. In the case of Port Talbot, then why not start on the new Electric Arc furnace(s) before closing the Blast furnaces? Perhaps those with better knowledge of the industry may be able to explain better?

It's all well and good making gestures like phasing out coal fired power generation, but as I mentioned earlier, we need to have a suitable alternative in place, that isn't reliant on other countries. It will be interesting to see what progress other major economies make in phasing out reliance on coal power - though I suspect they'll just carry on without giving it a second thought.

The owners claim that continuing to run the blast furnaces was costing £1m a day. They weren’t going to run it any longer than they had to unless someone was willing to pay them.

There’s around 35GW of gas power station capacity in the UK, which could power the UK by itself most of the time. Losing coal won’t make much difference to our resilience.

 

[Bald Rick]

There’s around 35GW of gas power station capacity in the UK, which could power the UK by itself most of the time. Losing coal won’t make much difference to our resilience.

27.6GW (to be precise) that can supply the Grid.

 

[Ediswan]

I fully agree. I'm sure the process could've been managed better. In the case of Port Talbot, then why not start on the new Electric Arc furnace(s) before closing the Blast furnaces? Perhaps those with better knowledge of the industry may be able to explain better?

Maybe the current furnaces need to be demolished to make space for the new.

 

[dangie]

...but as I mentioned earlier, we need to have a suitable alternative in place, that isn't reliant on other countries...

We do: Nuclear...

But unfortunately we can't build them anymore. We're relying on other countries i.e. France & China.
And that's just for the reactors. We don't even build the boilers or turbines or generators.
Three words come to mind 'Up', 'Creek', Paddle'

 

[brad465]

Personally I think this is a great day for Great Britain.

We're making a clear effort to show some consideration for the environment.

What could have been done differently would be for those people who were inextricably opposed to the closures to have come up with their own ideas as to how to re-employ those unlucky enough to be losing jobs due to the closure (this seems to be symptomatic of the UK as a whole - complain, object but jot have a viable alternative solution).

I think it would be nice for a government to actually come up alternative industry and employment. The biggest issue with the closure of mines and other industry under Thatcher wasn't their closure, it was the same government didn't do enough to support the communities affected. Similar effects were seen in the US and other developed countries.

 

[edwin_m]

I think it would be nice for a government to actually come up alternative industry and employment. The biggest issue with the closure of mines and other industry under Thatcher wasn't their closure, it was the same government didn't do enough to support the communities affected. Similar effects were seen in the US and other developed countries.

Indeed, and at the time we had oil revenue that ended up mostly being frittered away (unlike Norway).

 

[Nottingham59]

Drove past Ratcliffe yesterday night and there was definitely some steam coming from the cooling towers, and it seemed to be working the day before.

They stopped generating at 2:30pm today.

Coal power production

GB Coal Generation

gridwatch.co.uk

 

[DarloRich]

But unfortunately we can't build them anymore. We're relying on other countries i.e. France & China.
And that's just for the reactors. We don't even build the boilers or turbines or generators.
Three words come to mind 'Up', 'Creek', Paddle'

correct - as of today. That can, of course, change over time.

 

[Yew]

Are other countries building new coal-fired power plants? What matters is global energy production, not just what happens on our island.

 

[brad465]

Are other countries building new coal-fired power plants? What matters is global energy production, not just what happens on our island.

China certainly still is, but China is also leading the world in renewable energy capacity increases. The FT did a good analysis of China's surging renewable output, but also discussed what they would have to do to get off coal:

China’s accelerating green transition

Two-thirds of all new solar and wind power projects are based in the country. But to wean industry off coal, Beijing needs to set up a real energy market

on.ft.com

The sea of solar panels covering an area twice the size of Manhattan in the north-western Xinjiang region and the blades of an offshore wind turbine the height of the Eiffel Tower near the south-eastern island of Hainan reflect the magnitude of China’s renewable energy ambitions. The scale and pace of the country’s transition away from fossil fuels has smashed international forecasts, exceeded Beijing’s own targets — and put the rest of the world on notice. In July, China hit its target of having 1,200 gigawatts of installed solar and wind capacity, enough to power hundreds of millions of homes each year, six years early. There is more to come: around two-thirds of all new solar and wind power projects under construction are happening in China.

 

[dangie]

correct - as of today. That can, of course, change over time.

Do you think the UK will ever invest and build large industry again? Unfortunately I don't.

When I left school and began my apprenticeship back in the 1960's, British power generation companies literally powered the world.

English Electric Co., Associated Electrical Industries (AEI), CA Parsons, to name but three. All massive companies, now long gone.

For information the four 500mw Turbine Generators at Ratcliffe were built by CA Parsons in Newcastle-upon-Tyne.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Today we made 36.5% of our electricity from wind, 12.9 from Nuclear and 23% from gas. The truth is we live in a windy country. There is lots of free energy potential there! We have a gap of, today, C.14% bought in via our connections to Europe that we will need to fill but, despite what Johnson might fantasise about, i don't think we will be at war with Holland anytime soon!

Yeah renewables are so free that they need to subsidised by consumers at a price higher than gas. Thats the reality of Net Zero not the lower bills Millibrain promises. Just be nice for politicians to be honest with the electorate that its the price we have to pay to give the planet and future generations a chance.

 

[DerekC]

Yeah renewables are so free that they need to subsidised by consumers at a price higher than gas. Thats the reality of Net Zero not the lower bills Millibrain promises. Just be nice for politicians to be honest with the electorate that its the price we have to pay to give the planet and future generations a chance.

I agree about government being honest with the electorate about many things, but check your facts before making assertions. Total generation costs including fuel, amortised construction, operation and maintenance per MWh from the latest report "Electricity Generation Costs 2023" - forecast for projects commissioning in 2025:

Combined Cycle Gas Turbine - £114/MWh (including carbon costs, ~£55/MWh without)
Offshore Wind - £44/MWh
Onshore Wind - £38/MWh
Solar - £41/MWh

https://assets.publishing.service.g...48b99fe/electricity-generation-costs-2023.pdf

 

[JamesT]

I agree about government being honest with the electorate about many things, but check your facts before making assertions. Total generation costs including fuel, amortised construction, operation and maintenance per MWh from the latest report "Electricity Generation Costs 2023" - forecast for projects commissioning in 2025:

Combined Cycle Gas Turbine - £114/MWh (including carbon costs, ~£55/MWh without)
Offshore Wind - £44/MWh
Onshore Wind - £38/MWh
Solar - £41/MWh

https://assets.publishing.service.g...48b99fe/electricity-generation-costs-2023.pdf

Those costs look very good for the renewables, but that’s not necessarily what the generators are being paid. Some of the headline figures from the CfD auctions are considerably above the gas price you’re quoting.

 

[Noddy]

Fair enough. What's the solution to energy provision, that's sufficient to supply the needs of the UK? If we import energy supplies from other countries like France and Scandinavian locations, then how do we ensure they are produced from clean and sustainable sources? For the sake of clarity I am not including nuclear power. Whilst it may be a sustainable source, it has waste that needs processing.

Norways grid mix is over 80% hydro and 10% wind, France’s mix is over 85% nuclear, wind and hydro so they’re very clean. With gas, even if we exclusively use North Sea gas (which we don’t), we are totally exposed to global markets-as we witnessed with our bills when Putin invaded Ukraine.

You’re the one choosing to exclude nuclear, not me!

Sad to see it go from an industrial heritage perspective, but delighted to see it go from an environmental, economic and social persepctive.

Indeed!

 

[edwin_m]

Those costs look very good for the renewables, but that’s not necessarily what the generators are being paid. Some of the headline figures from the CfD auctions are considerably above the gas price you’re quoting.

If so that's an artifact of our energy market, which can be addressed by changing the market. It's not intrinsic to the technology.

 

[Bald Rick]

It's all well and good making gestures like phasing out coal fired power generation, but as I mentioned earlier, we need to have a suitable alternative in place, that isn't reliant on other countries.

We imported very nearly all the coal burnt in Ratclffe, and have done fir a long time.