ETHELs

[matchmaker]

When the above were in use, does anyone know if they carried a crew member?

 

[SteveM70]

They were converted in 1983 and used till about 1990 from memory, although one of them was withdrawn earlier, I think because of asbestos

 

[Hairy Bear]

No, and if you can find the picture of the inside of the cab.....no seats, taken out !.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I had haulage behind them all. Don't think they were crewed.

 

[DerekC]

Please help - what's an ETHEL? Electric Train Heating Ex-Locomotive?

 

[swt_passenger]

Please help - what's an ETHEL? Electric Train Heating Ex-Locomotive?

Yes. That’s the wording found in an earlier thread here:

What Happened To ETHEL?

G'day everyone, From memory back in the 1980's I seem to remember that a few class 25's were used to provide heating to carriages when hauled by none heat / steam heat only loco's. From what I can remember these loco's were referred to as ETHEL's. Can anyone shed any light on them; when...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Harvester]

On my last visit to Swindon works (15/10/1984) I noted 97250 (ETHEL 1) in A Shop. It must have been undergoing repair, as it wasn’t scrapped until 1994. Quite surprised to see it, by then Swindon was mainly concentrating on shunter and DMU overhauls!

 

[Taunton]

Please help - what's an ETHEL? Electric Train Heating Ex-Locomotive?

They were a converted Class 25, operated not as a locomotive but as a oversized generator of electric power for the train. They were cut in behind the steam loco on steam specials. For whatever reason they seemingly had to be operated at high revs, with a loose governor that caused the rpm to hunt, and as their silencers seemed to have been removed their noise completely drowned out any sound the steam loco might be making, or even deafening those standing to admire it just ahead. Just to complete the ruining of the historic atmosphere they were cut in between the 1930s steam loco and the 1950s liveried Mk1 stock, but painted in the multi-coloured Inter-City toothpaste livery of the time, with yellow ends, although they always operated inside the formation.

I did suggest at the time that they had been yet another "Rail Enthusiast" magazine April Fool of the era (they did some good ones), which had been accidentally misunderstood by someone with no sense of humour and given a budget to go ahead.

 

[Sun Chariot]

I well recall their controversy on "C.M.E." steam hauled turns over the S&C, @Taunton and I recall seeing them coupled inside non-heat diesels as well. I've photos of 97252 with a no-heat 37 at Inverness; and I think I've a photo of 97251 at Leeds.

 

[matchmaker]

They were a converted Class 25, operated not as a locomotive but as a oversized generator of electric power for the train. They were cut in behind the steam loco on steam specials. For whatever reason they seemingly had to be operated at high revs, with a loose governor that caused the rpm to hunt, and as their silencers seemed to have been removed their noise completely drowned out any sound the steam loco might be making, or even deafening those standing to admire it just ahead. Just to complete the ruining of the historic atmosphere they were cut in between the 1930s steam loco and the 1950s liveried Mk1 stock, but painted in the multi-coloured Inter-City toothpaste livery of the time, with yellow ends, although they always operated inside the formation.

I did suggest at the time that they had been yet another "Rail Enthusiast" magazine April Fool of the era (they did some good ones), which had been accidentally misunderstood by someone with no sense of humour and given a budget to go ahead.

The original reason for them was to provide power to the Mk3 sleepers on the Fort William portion as the Mk1 sleepers were rapidly being withdrawn after the Taunton train fire. At that time the only ETS fitted locos in Scotland were 47s, which were too heavy for that line. The ETHELs were a temporary solution until the 37/4s could be converted to provide ETS. The trains were hauled by a steam heat 37/0, then ETHEL, then the coaches.

Once sufficient 37/4s were available the ETHELs were used on steam specials as @Taunton has remarked.

Thanks for the useful information about crewing.

 

[Taunton]

I can remember them being used on the regular Sunday excursions of the era from Marylebone to Stratford-on-Avon, aimed more at the public than enthusiasts. Some thought that the "diesel" was to pull their train, and the steam loco in front was doing nothing, being pushed along just for show.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

The original reason for them was to provide power to the Mk3 sleepers on the Fort William portion as the Mk1 sleepers were rapidly being withdrawn after the Taunton train fire. At that time the only ETS fitted locos in Scotland were 47s, which were too heavy for that line. The ETHELs were a temporary solution until the 37/4s could be converted to provide ETS. The trains were hauled by a steam heat 37/0, then ETHEL, then the coaches.

Once sufficient 37/4s were available the ETHELs were used on steam specials as @Taunton has remarked.

Correct. That is where I had "haulage" or traveled behind them - Fort William portions - one each way.

 

[Ashley Hill]

painted in the multi-coloured Inter-City toothpaste livery of the time, with yellow ends,

Original livery was blue/grey with blue cab ends to match the coaches.

 

[alistairlees]

Information here: https://www.derbysulzers.com/97250.html

 

[D1537]

They were a converted Class 25, operated not as a locomotive but as a oversized generator of electric power for the train. They were cut in behind the steam loco on steam specials. For whatever reason they seemingly had to be operated at high revs, with a loose governor that caused the rpm to hunt, and as their silencers seemed to have been removed their noise completely drowned out any sound the steam loco might be making, or even deafening those standing to admire it just ahead.

For anyone who has never heard an ETHEL, they sounded nothing like a normal 25, and on the West Highland they were so loud that they drowned out a 37 at full chat, let alone a steam loco.

 

[The exile]

Correct. That is where I had "haulage" or traveled behind them - Fort William portions - one each way.

They also went to Oban on the summer Sunday specials which used a Push-Pull MkIII rake.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

They also went to Oban on the summer Sunday specials which used a Push-Pull MkIII rake.

I did not remember that.

 

[matchmaker]

For anyone who has never heard an ETHEL, they sounded nothing like a normal 25, and on the West Highland they were so loud that they drowned out a 37 at full chat, let alone a steam loco.

I have fitted a sound decoder plus large speaker to my OO gauge Heljan "Ethel". I will have to turn up the volume on the Bachmann 37/0 pulling the train!

 

[The exile]

I did not remember that.

Only time I ever met one “in anger” - July 1985, Ivthink.

 

[Railsigns]

The ETHELs made numerous visits to Oban during 1983.

 

[Trackman]

No, and if you can find the picture of the inside of the cab.....no seats, taken out !.

In fact, everything was taken out!!

The ETHELs made numerous visits to Oban during 1983.

There was a write-up in RE (Rail enthusiast) around 1983 named 'To Oban with ETHEL'

 

[matchmaker]

I did not remember that.

What motive power was used? A 47/4 or 47/7 would be barred from the Oban line. I know Deltics made it to Oban, but they had ETS.

 

[Ashley Hill]

How was the ETH supplied,was it tapped off the main generator?

 

[D1537]

What motive power was used? A 47/4 or 47/7 would be barred from the Oban line. I know Deltics made it to Oban, but they had ETS.

A steam-heat Class 37.

How was the ETH supplied,was it tapped off the main generator?

Straight off the traction motor contactors I believe.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Straight off the traction motor contactors I believe.

Hence the high RPM and variable output?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

What motive power was used? A 47/4 or 47/7 would be barred from the Oban line. I know Deltics made it to Oban, but they had ETS.

Class 37s when I did them.

 

[norbitonflyer]

A steam-heat Class 37.

The only kind of 37 at the time - hence the need for the ETHELs

I know Deltics made it to Oban, but they had ETS.

Deltics were used on some excursion trains because a commentary was required, which meant coaching stock with a PA system, which meant Mark 2d or later, which meant ETS. And at the time there was only one class of diesel fitted for ETS with an RA acceptable for the Oban line...........

 

[32475]

Just came across a photo of Ethel 97251 I took at Fort William in October 1983

 

[xotGD]

I can remember them being used on the regular Sunday excursions of the era from Marylebone to Stratford-on-Avon, aimed more at the public than enthusiasts. Some thought that the "diesel" was to pull their train, and the steam loco in front was doing nothing, being pushed along just for show.

I've posted this photo previously, but here it is again - an ETHEL at Marylebone, 29th of November 1986:

 

[Western 52]

Some class 24s were also converted to electric heat, as static carriage heating units I think. Did they ever run in trains like the ETHELs?