ETR700 on test in Slovenia

[Stephen Lee]

[passenger] ETR700 test trials on Slovenia's rail network

In 2020, Italian and Slovenian railways, Trenitalia and SŽ PP, collaborated on plans for a direct rail connection between Italy and Slovenia using Frecciarossa train sets. Due to the challenges of the COVID-19 pandemic, only limited tests were conducted on the Italian side using the then-planned ETR

railcolornews.com

In 2020, Italian and Slovenian railways, Trenitalia and SŽ PP, collaborated on plans for a direct rail connection between Italy and Slovenia using Frecciarossa train sets. Due to the challenges of the COVID-19 pandemic, only limited tests were conducted on the Italian side using the then-planned ETR1000. The project fell silent until this November when Slovenian railways unveiled a new timetable featuring a pair of EuroCity trains, EC 136 and EC 137.

1. Anyone have details about the EC136/137?
2. I guess the extension of EC Emona is the reason why the project fell silent?
3. Can Trenitalia use E414/ETR500/ETR600 for services to Slovenia?
4. Can the service further extend to Croatia/Hungary?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

EC 150/151 (Emona) is a mixed SŽ/ÖBB train running Vienna-Graz-Ljubljana.
The ÖBB cars now run on from Ljubljana to/from Trieste as EC 134/135, making a through Vienna-Trieste service running the full length of the old Südbahn.

vagonWEB » Řazení vlaků » 2024 » SŽ EC

www.vagonweb.cz

 

[jamesontheroad]

1. I assumed these are the EC train numbers for the new ETR700 service being discussed here. I thought I'd seen a proposed timetable, but I can't find it now.

2. No, it was the pandemic that halted it.

3. I don't see why not, but I suspect that it is now operationally expedient to use the ETR700 because it's only a relatively short extension beyond it's current service area along the Adriatic corridor to Venice and Trieste.

4. Perhaps Zagreb, one day, but Budapest is a long, slow and uncompetitive distance from Ljubljana by rail. Milan - Ljubljana has the advantage of being an attractive out-and-back daytrip, so operationally easy.

 

[70014IronDuke]

4. Perhaps Zagreb, one day, but Budapest is a long, slow and uncompetitive distance from Ljubljana by rail. Milan - Ljubljana has the advantage of being an attractive out-and-back daytrip, so operationally easy.

It is indeed AWFULLY slow and uncompetitive with the road alternative on time.

But even if the rail route were heavily invested and the 8 hr journey time halved (to be competitive with road, and that would cost an awful lot of dosho) there is very little demand. The one international train per day is little used across the border at Hodos. Frankly, IMO it is a political decision to run it via Hodos rather than via Zagreb - which would add an hour or so but attract more traffic.

You'd lose the three passengers per year between Zalaegerszeg and Ptuj, of course , but backpackers and Eurail traffic between Budapest and Ljubljana would just take the extra hour in the train.

Fact is, Ljubljana looks to Vienna and Munich/Germany, not Budapest. Maribor (which in any case is much smaller, even if it is an important manufacturing centre) likewise.

 

[AlbertBeale]

1. I assumed these are the EC train numbers for the new ETR700 service being discussed here. I thought I'd seen a proposed timetable, but I can't find it now.

2. No, it was the pandemic that halted it.

3. I don't see why not, but I suspect that it is now operationally expedient to use the ETR700 because it's only a relatively short extension beyond it's current service area along the Adriatic corridor to Venice and Trieste.

4. Perhaps Zagreb, one day, but Budapest is a long, slow and uncompetitive distance from Ljubljana by rail. Milan - Ljubljana has the advantage of being an attractive out-and-back daytrip, so operationally easy.

So would a service from Italy go to Trieste first and then reverse out round the long loop to Slovenia, or would these services save a major time penalty by heading into the hills for Villa Opicina without going via Trieste?

 

[eastwestdivide]

So would a service from Italy go to Trieste first and then reverse out round the long loop to Slovenia, or would these services save a major time penalty by heading into the hills for Villa Opicina without going via Trieste?

This article from an Italian site from December suggests a direct link Trieste-Ljubljana had been discussed since Feb 2021:

Ferrovie.it - Prove ETCS in Slovenia per l'ETR.700

VENEZIA - Entrano nel vivo le prove internazionali in vista della probabile istituzione del nuovo...

www.ferrovie.it

…Del collegamento diretto Trieste-Lubiana se n'era già parlato nel febbraio 2021…

And a linked forum post (scroll down at https://forum.ferrovie.it/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=50927)
says

Se verrà veramente attivato dal 1 Aprile 2024 il collegamento Ljubljana - Trieste Centrale - Venezia Mestre - Milano Centrale effettuato con ETR 700 di Trenitalia, questa sarà la quarta coppia di treni Ljubljana - Trieste Centrale

Which I translate as “if the Ljubljana-Trieste Centrale-Venezia Mestre-Milano Centrale link is really activated from 1 April 2024 with Trenitalia ETR700, it will be the fourth train pair between Ljubljana-Trieste Centrale” (after discussing other Ljubljana/Trieste services)

 

[AlbertBeale]

This article from an Italian site from December suggests a direct link Trieste-Ljubljana had been discussed since Feb 2021:

Ferrovie.it - Prove ETCS in Slovenia per l'ETR.700

VENEZIA - Entrano nel vivo le prove internazionali in vista della probabile istituzione del nuovo...

www.ferrovie.it

And a linked forum post (scroll down at https://forum.ferrovie.it/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=50927)
says

Which I translate as “if the Ljubljana-Trieste Centrale-Venezia Mestre-Milano Centrale link is really activated from 1 April 2024 with Trenitalia ETR700, it will be the fourth train pair between Ljubljana-Trieste Centrale” (after discussing other Ljubljana/Trieste services)

Thanks - getting more Trieste-Ljubljana connections would be great (I seem to remember this was a frequent service generation ago), though if they all go via (ie in and out of) Trieste, it adds quite a chunk of time to the Slovenia-Milan (etc) journeys.

I think there's an old tunnel into the hills which turns off the Trieste line much much nearer than does the route to Villa Opicina these would use; but this loops round to docks south of the city. Although there is/was also a link from the docks directly up to the border, it doesn't seem that there's any viable way of using a combination of these old lines to get a much shorter link from Trieste to Villa Opicina. (I'd love to be proved wrong.)

 

[Panceltic]

Thanks - getting more Trieste-Ljubljana connections would be great (I seem to remember this was a frequent service generation ago), though if they all go via (ie in and out of) Trieste, it adds quite a chunk of time to the Slovenia-Milan (etc) journeys.

I think there's an old tunnel into the hills which turns off the Trieste line much much nearer than does the route to Villa Opicina these would use; but this loops round to docks south of the city. Although there is/was also a link from the docks directly up to the border, it doesn't seem that there's any viable way of using a combination of these old lines to get a much shorter link from Trieste to Villa Opicina. (I'd love to be proved wrong.)

Yes, there is a tunnel linking Trieste Centrale with Trieste Campo Marzio where the trains would have to reverse and then head straight to Villa Opicina using the Transalpina line. This is certainly shorter than going the long way round via Aurisina, but I am not sure if it is operationally possible (it would involve reversing twice, and Transalpina is heavily used by freight iirc).

 

[D6130]

Given the very sinuous nature of the Villa Opicina-Ljubljana line, I would have thought it would have been more sensible to use the Alstom class ETR600/610 'Pendolino' tilting sets on this service....although it's some considerable distance from their normal sphere of operations, so diagramming might be difficult.

 

[nwales58]

What signalling is needed for Slovenia versus Italy?

SZ have 2 under-worked diagrams for their 3 baby-Pendolini but can they operate into Italy?

 

[superalbs]

What signalling is needed for Slovenia versus Italy?

SZ have 2 under-worked diagrams for their 3 baby-Pendolini but can they operate into Italy?

They have done in the past. Here's a photo of one in Italy.

SZ 310 002 - EC51 Casanova

Il treno ICS 310 002 (il Pendolino sloveno) effettua l'EuroCity 51 "Casanova", qui ripreso nella fermata a Portogruaro-Caorle. Venezia Santa Lucia - Portogruaro - Monfalcone - Villa Opicina - Sezana - Postumia - Lubiana. Slovenian Pendolino ICS 310 002 operates EuroCity 51 "Casanova", here it's...

www.flickr.com

Timings were as follows...

EC 50 (Source: https://www.vagonweb.cz/razeni/vlak.php?zeme=SŽ&kategorie=EC&cislo=50&nazev=Casanova&rok=2004)

Ljubljana 10:25, Postojna 11:14-11:15, Sežana 11:52-12:08, Villa Opicina 12:15-12:29, Monfalcone 12:55-12:57, Portogruaro-Caorle 13:31-13:32, Venezia Mestre 14:09-14:11, Venezia Santa Lucia 14:21

EC 51 (Source: https://www.vagonweb.cz/razeni/vlak.php?zeme=TI&kategorie=EC&cislo=51&nazev=Casanova&rok=2004)

Venezia Santa Lucia 15:44, Venezia Mestre 15:54-15:56, Portogruaro-Caorle 16:30-16:31, Monfalcone 17:04-17:06, Villa Opicina 17:34-17:50, Sežana 17:58-18:15, Postojna 18:50-18:51, Ljubljana 19:40

 

[AlbertBeale]

Yes, there is a tunnel linking Trieste Centrale with Trieste Campo Marzio where the trains would have to reverse and then head straight to Villa Opicina using the Transalpina line. This is certainly shorter than going the long way round via Aurisina, but I am not sure if it is operationally possible (it would involve reversing twice, and Transalpina is heavily used by freight iirc).

I suppose if the extra reversal at the docks station was slick enough, then saving half the mileage between Trieste C and Opicina might make it worthwhile - especially for services from Slovenia which were terminating at Trieste anyway and not going on to elsewhere in Italy. Though I see the transit time for trains from Opicina to Trieste is only around 30 minutes by the more circuitous route, so perhaps the advantage would be fairly marginal. Though for local-ish services, the reversal route could include a passenger stop where it reverses, to provide better connections to the southern end of the city. Then some of the international services from elsewhere in Italy, which are being reinstated at last, could save time by avoiding Trieste completely - a stop at Opicina would connect into local services to two Trieste stations.