Eurotunnel/HS1 Inspection Train

[jfowkes]

(Mods: not sure if this should actually be in International Transport? Move if you like.)

After reading the thread on the Eurostar dewirement and rescue today, I got to reading about the Eurotunnel Class 0001 that were used for the rescue. Specifically, it seems they are used to haul the SNCF TGV Iris 320 track inspection train when it performs inspections of the tunnel and HS1.

Simple question, what is the reason for it being diesel hauled for the tunnel and HS1? I'm guessing it's tunnel safety/redundancy related somehow rather than something about HS1.

 

[DanNCL]

Simple question, what is the reason for it being diesel hauled for the tunnel and HS1? I'm guessing it's tunnel safety/redundancy related somehow rather than something about HS1.

They may be another reason in addition to this but one reason will be that nobody who signs the Channel Tunnel or HS1 also signs the Iris 320. The ICE 3 and TGV La Poste visits to St Pancras were also hauled by Eurotunnel 0001s.

I don't believe the Iris 320 has covered HS1 for a while now. Infrastructure inspection trips in recent years have seen the standard Network Rail test trains. The usual locos for the test trains don't have TVM signalling so are left behind at Dollands Moor for the duration of the HS1 trip with Eurotunnel 0001s hauling the coaches instead.

 

[Class15]

I don't believe the Iris 320 has covered HS1 for a while now. Infrastructure inspection trips in recent years have seen the standard Network Rail test trains. The usual locos for the test trains don't have TVM signalling so are left behind at Dollands Moor for the duration of the HS1 trip with Eurotunnel 0001s hauling the coaches instead.

What about 92s?

 

[D7666]

I think /maybe/ tunnel TVM430 is set up differently to France LGVs too. Not all TVM430 is the same w.r.t. train borne kit, and IIRC Channel Tunnel TVM430 is a distinct flavour of its own, if not sub-set of main line SNCF TVM430. Principles and concepts are the same, but configured differently ?
It maybe (indeed likely ?) Iris does not have this flavour ?

And there would be the issue of route/traction knowledge; I would ask the question if really any one who 'signs' Iris (be it the same as one TGV type or not) and the tunnel and HS1; or v.v. anyone who 'signs' the road would they the traction.

Academic point now anyway as at least HS1 is done by NR yellow trains.

 

[507 001]

Channel Tunnel TVM430 is a distinct flavour of its own, if not sub-set of main line SNCF TVM430

I think you might be right here. Isn’t it capable of signalling a larger range of speeds than the usual 80/160/220/270/300kmh range?

 

[Townsend Hook]

What about 92s?

92s aren’t used on infrastucture momitoring trains on HS1. The Eurotunnel Krupps are the usual choice for shifts which just run from Dolland’s Moor to almost, not quite, St Pancras. For the shifts which cover the various chords on and off HS1 we’ve used pairs of MPVs (specifically the HS1 maintenance ones based at Singlewell), 73s and 66s. The NMT has been used on HS1 but not for quite a few years. The SNCF Iris320 set isn’t used on HS1.

I’m not sure what happens with the tunnel itself, as it’s not Network Rail’s responsibility. One of the NR PLPR sets did a trial run through there some years ago but for various reasons it didn’t become a regular thing.

 

[Gaelan]

I think you might be right here. Isn’t it capable of signalling a larger range of speeds than the usual 80/160/220/270/300kmh range?

As I understand it (which isn't particularly well!) TVM430 is capable of transmitting up to six speed codes, with the meaning of the codes depending on the network. So I don't think it'll support a larger range, per se, but they'll be able to get more speed options below 160 by removing all the higher ones.

 

[D7666]

I think you might be right here. Isn’t it capable of signalling a larger range of speeds than the usual 80/160/220/270/300kmh range?

Yes, that is what I think,something like that, because the tunnel speeds are generally lower - it is not a high speed line - there is a bigger range of target speeds in the lower ranges. I am sure this gen is out there somewhere, possibly in a Todays Railways EU back number (because I think that is where I read this eons ago).

As I understand it (which isn't particularly well!) TVM430 is capable of transmitting up to six speed codes, with the meaning of the codes depending on the network. So I don't think it'll support a larger range, per se, but they'll be able to get more speed options below 160 by removing all the higher ones.

Exactly that.

Off top of head it might be something like 100 120 140 160 km/h - they had to allow for 100 km/h freight in the spec. At back of my mind there are a couple of SNCF two letter abbreviation codes that are linked with all this. Those types of freight are not part of domestic LGV operation so were never included in TVM original spec. Or something like this.

Anyway, think we are agreeing it is a different TVM flavour and or target speed range.

 

[43096]

Yes, that is what I think,something like that, because the tunnel speeds are generally lower - it is not a high speed line - there is a bigger range of target speeds in the lower ranges. I am sure this gen is out there somewhere, possibly in a Todays Railways EU back number (because I think that is where I read this eons ago).


Exactly that.

Off top of head it might be something like 100 120 140 160 km/h - they had to allow for 100 km/h freight in the spec. At back of my mind there are a couple of SNCF two letter abbreviation codes that are linked with all this. Those types of freight are not part of domestic LGV operation so were never included in TVM original spec. Or something like this.

Anyway, think we are agreeing it is a different TVM flavour and or target speed range.

Didn’t the Class 92s that run on HS1 have TVM430 modifications before they could do so? Certainly DB have/had different pools for HS1 capable locos.

 

[Class15]

92s aren’t used on infrastucture momitoring trains on HS1. The Eurotunnel Krupps are the usual choice for shifts which just run from Dolland’s Moor to almost, not quite, St Pancras. For the shifts which cover the various chords on and off HS1 we’ve used pairs of MPVs (specifically the HS1 maintenance ones based at Singlewell), 73s and 66s. The NMT has been used on HS1 but not for quite a few years. The SNCF Iris320 set isn’t used on HS1.

I’m not sure what happens with the tunnel itself, as it’s not Network Rail’s responsibility. One of the NR PLPR sets did a trial run through there some years ago but for various reasons it didn’t become a regular thing.

Ah okay, seems odd not to be using 92s.

 

[D7666]

There is some stuff in wikidribble but I leave it to your own judgements as to how much you accept from there

Transmission voie-machine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

key bit
QUOTE
Each of these can take on six different values; in the case of a high speed line these are (in km/h) 320, 300, 270, 230, 170, 80 and 0,
UNQUOTE

so the channel tunnel will have a different set


EDIT after the above I found this :


I found some data in an old file that contains gen from when the channel tunnel first opened so there is a possibility this is no longer valid.


CTRL1 ~1500 m long average TVM block sections - 300 270 230 170 0 km/h commands

CTRL2 ~950 m average - 230 200 160 100 0 km/h commands

CTRL1 and CTRL 2 is (question) east/west of Ashford ? Ebbsfleet ?

Channel Tunnel blocks ~900 m long - 160 130 90 70 30 0 km/h commands

Each train type fitted with command data within an EEPROM : here is how a 92 would only respond to 130 90 30 0 km/h commands and ignores higher commands.

Shuttles speeds are 140 110 and 100 km/h but the gen is unclear how that is implemented; ISTR reading once there is not a 140 command - maybe a Shuttle gets a 160 but other systems limit it to 140 km/h. Don't know.

Not sure how much this has to do with Iris anyway; it was just a suggestion Iris don't have the right command set.