Expired Railcard - Prosecution letter advice needed

[Fisherman_02]

Hello,

In October last year I was stopped at my local station (Sevenoaks) when my ticket didn’t work. This was because I was using a railcard which had expired 12 months prior to this point, which I had been altering as and when needed to avoid paying the full ticket fare. I am very regretful of my thoughtless mistake and am here seeking your advice, not judgement.

I have now received the ‘pursuing a prosecution’ letter from Southeastern. Could you please help me with my reply to this letter? Note: I’ve read a few other threads and have seen that most of you guys recommend proceeding without legal advice at this point.

Now for the context: I can’t re-count the amount of times I used this railcard, but it was definitely at least once a week. I would always purchase either a return from Sevenoaks to London Terminals, or a zone 1-6 Travel card. Almost all of my tickets on this route were purchased at the self-service ticket machine in Sevenoaks, and there were only a few occasions when taking other routes (Sevenoaks to Liverpool Lime street was the furthest) that I used the Trainline app to book.

My encounter with the Southeastern guy wasn’t negative at all. He was actually really compassionate and I explained that it was because of money problems. I did admit to him that I had altered the railcard myself, but I did panic and lie and about the amount of times that I had used the railcard, only telling him that it was a ‘handful’ of times and that I can’t recall an exact number. Looking back I wish I had been honest, but I was in panic and damage limitation mode as I was thinking about the size of the potential fine. I did give him some context about my job and explained that I’m on site a lot and also do hybrid working (which is not a lie), but my job does require me to travel into London at least once a week (but never more than twice a week) - which I did not tell him.

Since being caught in October 24, I instantly renewed my 16-25 railcard and have been using it correctly ever since (at least once a week) for the same route.

I’ve accepted that I’ve massively f*cked up, and have started savings funds to cover the potential settlement fee as I cannot risk this going to court and my job finding out.

Please assist with the following three queries:
1) Can you please help me with the response to the attached letter? I’m happy to send a draft in after getting some advice.
2) Should I come completely clean in the letter about all of the above? Considering the fact that they probably use face recognition on their CCTV & that I didn’t mention the few ad-hoc trips that were booked on Train line. Or should I stick with my story and hope for the best?
3) Is it possible to calculate an approximate fee that I’ll have to pay?

Please feel free to ask anymore questions and thankyou so much for your help in advance (if you’ve made it this far!).

 

[John R]

You're very lucky that most of your tickets were purchased at the self service machine, as it's highly unlikely that these will be spotted. They won't use CCTV. However, it's very likely that the ones purchased on Trainline will be picked up and you will be asked to pay again for these tickets, at the full Anytime Single fare for each individual journey.

You've only been asked about the one journey, so I would confine your answer to that occasion. But don't lie and say "it was the first time" or anything like that, as they are quite likely to find out it wasn't.

In theory you could be done for fraud, but in practice you are highly likely to be offered a settlement, based on the Anytime fares for the journeys avoided, and an admin fee of around £150. The important thing is to apologise, promise not to do it again, and ask very nicely for a settlement. Try to write it in your own words and not use AI, as those letters always come across as cringy and insincere.

 

[Haywain]

Looking back I wish I had been honest,

At the time you were stopped or over the previous 12 months? Had you been honest when you were stopped you would likely be looking at a much larger amount to settle the matter. As for the previous 12 months, what you were doing was, essentially, committing fraud and that is crime which would have serious consequences on conviction but fortunately train companies generally regard that as unnecessarily difficult to prosecute when they have already got you for a lesser offence.

2) Should I come completely clean in the letter about all of the above? Considering the fact that they probably use face recognition on their CCTV & that I didn’t mention the few ad-hoc trips that were booked on Train line. Or should I stick with my story and hope for the best?

You are not required to incriminate yourself, and should only address the matter in the letter.

3) Is it possible to calculate an approximate fee that I’ll have to pay?

Not really, no. They are highly likely to look at your Trainline account though. It will be full fares avoided and an administration fee of around £150, but the question will be how many journeys will they be able to identify. What is certain is that this will cost you a lot more than the £30 you should have spent on a railcard.

 

[Fisherman_02]

You're very lucky that most of your tickets were purchased at the self service machine, as it's highly unlikely that these will be spotted. They won't use CCTV. However, it's very likely that the ones purchased on Trainline will be picked up and you will be asked to pay again for these tickets, at the full Anytime Single fare for each individual journey.

You've only been asked about the one journey, so I would confine your answer to that occasion. But don't lie and say "it was the first time" or anything like that, as they are quite likely to find out it wasn't.

In theory you could be done for fraud, but in practice you are highly likely to be offered a settlement, based on the Anytime fares for the journeys avoided, and an admin fee of around £150. The important thing is to apologise, promise not to do it again, and ask very nicely for a settlement. Try to write it in your own words and not use AI, as those letters always come across as cringy and insincere.

Thanks for replying. I’ve checked trainline and I only used the app three times within the 12-month period. The journeys were (London terminals to Sevenoaks [single], Sevenoaks to Clapham Junction [single] & Sevenoaks to Liverpool Lime Street [return]). There is also the ticket which I was caught with (Sevenoaks to London Bridge [return]).

Okay, the letter is quite vague and doesn’t even mention the railcard so should I just admit to altering it (as I did with the southeastern man)?

I will start drafting it this evening after work & will post here if allowed.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Feb 2025 ==

At the time you were stopped or over the previous 12 months? Had you been honest when you were stopped you would likely be looking at a much larger amount to settle the matter. As for the previous 12 months, what you were doing was, essentially, committing fraud and that is crime which would have serious consequences on conviction but fortunately train companies generally regard that as unnecessarily difficult to prosecute when they have already got you for a lesser offence.

You are not required to incriminate yourself, and should only address the matter in the letter.

Not really, no. They are highly likely to look at your Trainline account though. It will be full fares avoided and an administration fee of around £150, but the question will be how many journeys will they be able to identify. What is certain is that this will cost you a lot more than the £30 you should have spent on a railcard.

Thanks for replying. In all honesty not at the time of being stopped as it could’ve been a lot worse, more so over the 12 months.

So just address the one return ticket that I was caught with? & the altered railcard? Should I mention the other tickets from Train line (considering they can likely see them already).

I’m aware it will cost more than £30 and can’t believe how stupid I was. Especially when buying three tickets at a discounted price (£20 instead of £30) would’ve covered the fee anyway.

 

[Haywain]

So just address the one return ticket that I was caught with? & the altered railcard?

Address what the letter is asking you to address.

Should I mention the other tickets from Train line (considering they can likely see them already).

No, because they are not mentioned in the letter.

 

[Fisherman_02]

Address what the letter is asking you to address.

No, because they are not mentioned in the letter.

Thanks - will post the draft in shortly.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Feb 2025 ==

Hi, please find draft reply below:

Dear XX,

I am writing in response to the letter I received dated XX/02/25. I wish to explain the circumstances of the incident on XX/10/2024, and I respectfully request your consideration of my case.

I’d like to start by expressing my deepest apologies to Southeastern for the financial loss I have caused.

On the day of the offence, I was returning to Sevenoaks from London Bridge with a return ticket that had a 16-25 railcard discount applied, when in fact my 16-25 railcard had expired. I explained this to the southeastern staff member at the station, and also explained the reason for making this decision.

I admit that I had a significant error of judgement in not purchasing the correct ticket for this journey. Following the incident, I have learnt that it is completely unacceptable to travel without a valid train ticket, and have since renewed my 16-25 railcard, which now expires on XX/11/2025.

Due to my personal financial situation, I cannot risk losing my job. In light of this, I wondered if it would be possible to settle this matter without having to go to court. I am fully prepared to pay any outstanding fare and your administration costs in dealing with this matter and I hope my desire to settle will be sincerely considered. I’m also willing to collaborate fully with Southeastern on this matter.

Yours sincerely,

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Feb 2025 ==

Morning - any updates? Want to post today if possible.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Feb 2025 ==

@Hadders - would you mind having a look at my draft response? I’ve seen you are the man to go to.