"Express Travel Card" used when not intended on a barrier at Kings Cross

[Feuillesmortes]

I had a e-ticket for a journey from Kings Cross, and was pointing the e-ticket barcode (on my iphone) at the barcode reader on Kings Cross main barriers, but inadvertently triggered a touch in using the Express Travel Card feature. A 10p transaction appeared shortly afterwards, and I disabled Apple Pay to stop any further transactions.

My understanding is that TFL will now think I owe them for a maximum journey fare, but will they seek to blacklist:
- the device,
- the underlying card, or
- the specific identifier that Apple Pay has assigned to that card?

I haven't got a TFL account and my rail journey was fully paid by having an e-ticket starting from Kings Cross.

Edited to add a London Underground poster warning that Apple Pay automatically enabled this feature.

 

[MikeWh]

It's unlikely that they will blacklist anything for just one unmatched touch. You'll be charged an incomplete journey in a day or so and that will be the end of it. The 10p is just an authorisation which will not be collected.

If you call the TfL Helpdesk and explain what happened they should either refund this charge or stop it from being processed in the first place.


Edit: I would keep the evidence of the e-ticket just in case they ask to see it before refunding.

 

[maniacmartin]

For those not in the know, ‘Express Travel Card’ is a new iPhone feature that allows you to use your phone to make contactless payments without any authorisation, on transit operators only, to speed up gatelines. I believe that Japanese iPhones have had this feature for a whole.

How are people supposed to use e-tickets at gates that allow contactless payment cards, now that Apple has enabled the ‘express travel card’, without accidentally tapping in?

I foresee this issue cropping up a lot more in future as more people upgrade to newer iOS releases that has ‘Express Travel Card’.

Yet another lack of joined up thinking and another reason why I only ever use stickers if I am able to print them out

 

[Haywain]

For those not in the know, ‘Express Travel Card’ is a new iPhone feature that allows you to use your phone to make contactless payments without any authorisation, on transit operators only, to speed up gatelines. I believe that Japanese iPhones have had this feature for a whole.

How are people supposed to use e-tickets at gates that allow contactless payment cards, now that Apple has enabled the ‘express travel card’, without accidentally tapping in?

I foresee this issue cropping up a lot more in future as more people upgrade to newer iOS releases that has ‘Express Travel Card’.

Yet another lack of joined up thinking and another reason why I only ever use stickers if I am able to print them out

It is only a problem if the phone is passed to close to the contactless reader, and therefore too far from the barcode reader. The two devices should be far enough apart for this to be a negligible problem. And it wouldn’t be just iPhones - my Samsung phone has GooglePay which, after I’ve used it to buy something, requires the phone to be ‘awake’ to make a further payment just as needs to be ‘awake’ to display an eTicket.

 

[Feuillesmortes]

If you call the TfL Helpdesk and explain what happened they should either refund this charge or stop it from being processed in the first place.

Thank you. How will the helpdesk identify the transaction? I am assuming that they won't be able to bring it up based on card number or phone number?

Also, I found a twitter post by a Matthew Frost, where he had posted a picture of a TFL poster about this. He said:

Factually incorrect information at East Finchley Underground Station. TFL enabled Express Travel on their gateline. Express Travel has to be explicitly enabled on your devices for you to be “charged accidentally”

 

[87 027]

How are people supposed to use e-tickets at gates that allow contactless payment cards, now that Apple has enabled the ‘express travel card’, without accidentally tapping in?

You have to explicitly add a card to the feature to enable it to work. I have 2 contactless cards set up on Apple pay and both are linked to my Tfl account but neither is set up as an Express Travel card so I have to unlock the Wallet with Face/Touch ID before the readers will detect the card. I have done it deliberately this way precisely to avoid accidental tap-ins

 

[vinnym70]

Half the time when I try to use my express travel card on my iPhone it balks. It should work without the phone being unlocked and apparently even for a time after the battery is drained.
Yet, I'd say 50% of the time my first 'swoop' is rejected by the validator which is miserable when there's lots of people right behind you.

 

[jon0844]

Lots of people hold their barcode to the contactless reader, and if it beeps and opens they'll think the solid pad has 'read' the card. Of course, they're supposed to present it to the glass panel.

I wonder how many people contact TfL each day to query why they've had a charge on their card, when they travelled with a barcode? Likewise, I wonder how many people get charged and don't contact TfL. Do it three times and the card will be blacklisted, and if someone travels a few times and makes the same mistake - that's pretty easy to do.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Half the time when I try to use my express travel card on my iPhone it balks. It should work without the phone being unlocked and apparently even for a time after the battery is drained.
Yet, I'd say 50% of the time my first 'swoop' is rejected by the validator which is miserable when there's lots of people right behind you.

I find it unreliable too and so still use an actual card.

 

[MikeWh]

Thank you. How will the helpdesk identify the transaction? I am assuming that they won't be able to bring it up based on card number or phone number?

Also, I found a twitter post by a Matthew Frost, where he had posted a picture of a TFL poster about this. He said:

They should be able to identify it using the card number. The phone number will not be relevant.

No idea about the tweet, sorry.

 

[nanstallon]

The wonders of modern technology!

 

[plugwash]

Thank you. How will the helpdesk identify the transaction? I am assuming that they won't be able to bring it up based on card number or phone number?

My understanding is that unlike regular merchants, operators of touch in touch out "transit" systems can match up an apple pay/google pay transaction to the real underlying card number.

 

[island]

I wonder how many people contact TfL each day to query why they've had a charge on their card, when they travelled with a barcode? Likewise, I wonder how many people get charged and don't contact TfL. Do it three times and the card will be blacklisted

I am pretty sure blacklisting of contactless cards is only after three failed revenue inspections, not unmatched touches. I am sure I had more than three unmatched touches during last year's débacle at Kidbrooke where some or all of the platform validators were not "phoning home" with any touches in or out.

 

[TFN]

Standing by one of the Heathrow rail stations barrier for an hour and see how many people try scan their e-ticket on the oyster reader instead of the glass. A good chunk will have express travel and the gate opens for them.

 

[JaJaWa]

On iPhone if you're displaying your eTicket (or any barcoded pass) in Apple Wallet, it will stop the NFC cards from activating. That should stop a decent proportion of them.

 

[PeterC]

Standing by one of the Heathrow rail stations barrier for an hour and see how many people try scan their e-ticket on the oyster reader instead of the glass. A good chunk will have express travel and the gate opens for them.

I haven't seen that but I have seen plenty of people putting card tickets on the Oyster pads and some trying to push cards onto the ticket slot.

However you design a system a user will manage to get it wrong.

 

[zero]

Standing by one of the Heathrow rail stations barrier for an hour and see how many people try scan their e-ticket on the oyster reader instead of the glass. A good chunk will have express travel and the gate opens for them.

I haven't seen that but I have seen plenty of people putting card tickets on the Oyster pads and some trying to push cards onto the ticket slot.

However you design a system a user will manage to get it wrong.

Well to be fair some places have flimsy card tickets which have contactless functionality and are used with readers, while other places have thick cards which are inserted into slots. At Heathrow one would expect to see more people unfamiliar with local ticketing.

 

[Feuillesmortes]

It's unlikely that they will blacklist anything for just one unmatched touch. You'll be charged an incomplete journey in a day or so and that will be the end of it. The 10p is just an authorisation which will not be collected.

I can now see that a transaction of £5.80 was attempted but declined. (As I froze Apple Pay after the 10p) - therefore I'm not out of pocket.

(I have added a picture of a TFL poster to the original post to help the next person with a similar query).

 

[plugwash]

I suspect the transaction being declined is very likely to get the card in question blacklisted from use on TFL services.

 

[AlterEgo]

I suspect the transaction being declined is very likely to get the card in question blacklisted from use on TFL services.

Why?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why?

Because TfL entirely reasonably believe a debt was incurred and has not been paid. They can't find out whose the card is unless it's registered, so their only choice is to block it to stop it happening again.

The only way to get rid of that debt is to contact them and explain why it wasn't really incurred. Anecdotally from on here, they generally react reasonably to such a request, particularly if there is evidence (e.g. the other ticket).

 

[AlterEgo]

Because TfL entirely reasonably believe a debt was incurred and has not been paid. They can't find out whose the card is unless it's registered, so their only choice is to block it to stop it happening again.

The only way to get rid of that debt is to contact them and explain why it wasn't really incurred.

I thought cards were only blacklisted after several failed revenue inspections, not by this sort of event.

 

[island]

Bletchleyite is correct, a contactless card will get blacklisted first time where an attempt to collect any fare payment was declined by the card issuer. If the cardholder does not propose to use the card in the future for TfL services then this may not bother them.

I thought cards were only blacklisted after several failed revenue inspections, not by this sort of event.

I believe you are thinking of scenarios where a card is successfully charged an incomplete journey fare.

 

[londonbridge]

Bletchleyite is correct, a contactless card will get blacklisted first time where an attempt to collect any fare payment was declined by the card issuer. If the cardholder does not propose to use the card in the future for TfL services then this may not bother them.

That’s right. I’ve posted the following in a separate thread. My debit card was nearing its expiry date. Did some travelling, came home and found the replacement had arrived in the post, so I added it to my TFL account. Something in the process of doing so triggered the bank to decline the old one when TFL tried to collect against it. The old one was subsequently flagged in my account as “unable to travel”, even though it was the first time it (the old one) had ever been declined.

 

[Feuillesmortes]

Just an update. I tried on three occasions to resolve this on the "helpline" without success. What I learnt:

- Disabling Apple Pay afterwards didn't work because the 10p authorisation somehow allowed TFL to take the fare
- Apple Pay is supposed to hide the card number from the retailer, but not for Express Travel Card, ie the "helpline" uses the underlying card number

While I'm slightly out of pocket, at least TFL don't deem there to be a unpaid debt against my card number.

 

[Adam Williams]

Why on earth do TfL and their posters blame Apple for this feature, when it requires the gateline NFC devices to literally transmit a specific byte sequence to the iPhone in order for the payment to be considered transit-related? I am certain that Cubic would have had to have made a deliberate change to enable this.

 

[setdown]

Interestingly, apps can use a permission to disable contactless interactions whilst on a certain screen. Arriva Buses use this feature, to stop the Apple Pay prompt popping up when scanning a barcode in their app when boarding a bus. Maybe Trainline and other retailers can implement that for when tickets are bring displayed .

 

[Skie]

Why on earth do TfL and their posters blame Apple for this feature, when it requires the gateline NFC devices to literally transmit a specific byte sequence to the iPhone in order for the payment to be considered transit-related? I am certain that Cubic would have had to have made a deliberate change to enable this.

Not even that. Transit mode was not enabled automatically, users were prompted to enable it when they next visited their wallet app but they had to select a card and positively enable it.

Interestingly, apps can use a permission to disable contactless interactions whilst on a certain screen. Arriva Buses use this feature, to stop the Apple Pay prompt popping up when scanning a barcode in their app when boarding a bus. Maybe Trainline and other retailers can implement that for when tickets are bring displayed .

Some do. The wallet app already does when displaying e-tickets (and probably anything that asks for the brightness to be made eye-searing as QR/Aztec/Barcodes do).

 

[[.n]]

For those not in the know, ‘Express Travel Card’ is a new iPhone feature that allows you to use your phone to make contactless payments without any authorisation, on transit operators only, to speed up gatelines. I believe that Japanese iPhones have had this feature for a whole.

How are people supposed to use e-tickets at gates that allow contactless payment cards, now that Apple has enabled the ‘express travel card’, without accidentally tapping in?

I foresee this issue cropping up a lot more in future as more people upgrade to newer iOS releases that has ‘Express Travel Card’.

Yet another lack of joined up thinking and another reason why I only ever use stickers if I am able to print them out

I wonder if I'm misunderstanding this feature, but from the description of it in this thread I have this for ages via Samsung Pay (I had to nominate a Transport Card within Samsung Pay and it seems to work exactly as described above (for on TFL and First). (for avoidance of doubt - I don't have Google Pay for my phone)


From https://www.samsung.com/uk/samsung-pay/

Transport for London​

With Samsung Pay you can set up a card as a ‘transport card’ to use on TFL services. This option means you don’t even need to wake your phone or verify. Simply touch the middle section of your phone against the card reader.