familly member made a stupid mistake

[Papy200]

My son leave with his mum in Brixton and come to visit me in Bromley. The original plan was for his mum to drive with him to their home. But on their way he receive a call for an extra shift so they stop at Kent house station to print his weekly ticket (from Brixton to London Terminal). Because he didn't want to be late, instead of carrying on with his mother he saw the train coming and he took it.
At Victoria station where his ticket was valid, the gate reject it. he was them approach by a revenue inspector who check his ticket and ask him were he started his journey. He lie and said Brixton Station. The inspector told him that is not possible because the ticket was printed at Kent house 1 min before the train arrive and it would have been impossible for him to drive to Brixton and catch the same train.
He them come clean and admitted that he started his journey at Kent house. The inspector ask for his detail (this is where the stupid part start) He gave part of his name mixed with another name his friend use to call him. The inspector them ask why the name is different from the one on the rail photo card, and request to see an ID. He provided his job ID which have only part of his legal name, and explain to the inspector that hi have a long name that is why he can only write part of it. The name on the rail photo card is the name his friend use to call him not his legal name. I don't know how but he manage to convince the inspector with a mix of part of his legal name and the name his friend use to call him. He gave his actual date of birth and his work phone number. when the inspector ask for his address he gave our previous address (where we use to leaving together). The inspector ask him to explain why he have a ticket stating at Brixton, when he is leaving somewhere else and print his ticket from another station. To be honest I don't know how he explain that because event to me that doesn't make sense. to cut the story short, he said he explain itself to the inspector who took a picture of his rail photo card and his weekly ticket. He also took his statement, gave him back his photo card, kept his weekly ticket and issue him and MG11. on the MG11 the name there is not my son name legal , it is his date birth and we are not leaving at that address anymore.
I don't know what should he do from now. I turn 20 last week and I am worry about any criminal charge against him.

Thanks for help this is urgent and please don't judge my parenting or his mum

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Welcome to the forum.

The good news is that your son won't go to prison. The bad news is that he may have to pay cash to get out of this problem.

Hopefully others will be along shortly to give more detail on what your son can expect, and what he should do.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Presumably all London bound trains originating from the Beckenham Junction/Bromley South direction, that call at Kent House, subsequently call at Brixton before terminating at London Victoria.

So, it appears to be the case that the OP / the OP's family member, may have not paid for the section of their journey between Kent House to Brixton, assuming the season ticket mentioned was indeed valid.

What I don't quite understand is why the weekly ticket that the OP mentions (from Brixton to London Terminals) wouldn't have worked the barriers at Victoria.

Also, how old is the OP's (working?) son, if the OP is indeed 20? Reads almost as if the OP is referring to themselves in the third person.

 

[Papy200]

Welcome to the forum.

The good news is that your son won't go to prison. The bad news is that he may have to pay cash to get out of this problem.

Hopefully others will be along shortly to give more detail on what your son can expect, and what he should do.

How could he paid cash as the pictures he send me and later show me doesn't mention any amount to be paid.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Welcome to the forum.

The good news is that your son won't go to prison. The bad news is that he may have to pay cash to get out of this problem.

Hopefully others will be along shortly to give more detail on what your son can expect, and what he should do.

How could he paid cash as the pictures he send me and later show me doesn't mention any amount to be paid.

Sorry - poor wording on my part. What I was trying to say was that all of the ways to resolve this will involve your son having to pay some money to someone. That may mean paying an out-of-court settlement to the train company, or it may mean paying a fine (plus court costs and prosecution costs and compensation) to the court. But either way, it will involve paying money.

 

[Papy200]

Presumably all London bound trains originating from the Beckenham Junction/Bromley South direction, that call at Kent House, subsequently call at Brixton before terminating at London Victoria.

So, it appears to be the case that the OP / the OP's family member, may have not paid for the section of their journey between Kent House to Brixton, assuming the season ticket mentioned was indeed valid.

What I don't quite understand is why the weekly ticket that the OP mentions (from Brixton to London Terminals) wouldn't have worked the barriers at Victoria.

Also, how old is the OP's (working?) son, if the OP is indeed 20? Reads almost as if the OP is referring to themselves in the third person.

I actually don't understand as well why his ticket did not work? I can confirm it was a valid ticket after the argument I had with his mum. I suppose he took a weekly tickets because he work not far from Victoria St.

Sorry - poor wording on my part. What I was trying to say was that all of the ways to resolve this will involve your son having to pay some money to someone. That may mean paying an out-of-court settlement to the train company, or it may mean paying a fine (plus court costs and prosecution costs and compensation) to the court. But either way, it will involve paying money.

Should I contact the company because the address he provided is wrong and the name he provided is wrong as well even though it contains part of his legal name???

 

[Grvrdvicdr]

I actually don't understand as well why his ticket did not work? I can confirm it was a valid ticket after the argument I had with his mum. I suppose he took a weekly tickets because he work not far from Victoria St.


Should I contact the company because the address he provided is wrong and the name he provided is wrong as well even though it contains part of his legal name???

Revenue staff routinely block tickets from going through gates from 1 stop away, so Brixton for example as this type of evasion isn’t rare. And best thing to do would be write a letter to the prosecutions team who’s address should be on the Mg11 receipt giving them the correct details so name and address otherwise without seeing any letters he would get prosecuted even in his absence or if they find out the correct details themselves then they could easily prosecute you and are less likely to settle out of court. By no means a legal expert and I’m sure others on here will have much better advice, all I suggest is tell the truth now before it comes out

 

[furlong]

I actually don't understand as well why his ticket did not work?

The reason isn't relevant but it's not unusual for there to be faults or deliberate blocks on certain types of tickets so they can be checked manually.

Should I contact the company because the address he provided is wrong and the name he provided is wrong as well even though it contains part of his legal name???

No - if he is 20, your son should contact them to "come clean" and try to sort this all out himself, particularly if he would prefer to try to negotiate a settlement out-of-court rather than risk a criminal conviction.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Let’s go through what could happen. I’m taking the facts to be as you have told us (that your son got on a train at Kent House to go to Victoria: his ticket was a season ticket from Brixton to Victoria) and on those facts, your son has broken the law, which says that you should have a valid ticket for the journey you make, and you should have it before you get on the train*.

So the railway can, if they want, take your son straight to court. I would expect the railway to win at court, and your son would have to pay a fine, plus court fees, plus prosecution costs, plus compensation (the train fare that he didn’t pay).

But what happens most of the time is that the railway writes to the person (your son) to ask for an explanation. If your son writes back with an explanation that the railway thinks means that he won’t fail to pay his fare again, then instead of taking him to court they may agree to let him pay the train fare he didn’t pay, plus the costs the railway has run up in looking into what happened. This is normally less than what would have to be paid in court.

But to get the railway to agree to this, it is really important that your son keeps in touch with the railway. That means that he gets their letters and replies to them. If he doesn’t, then the matter will end up in court - and even with a false name and address, he can be prosecuted. When the fine isn’t paid, the court will appoint debt collectors who will eventually find your son - and he will have to pay the debt collectors’ costs as well as everything else.

You have said that your son gave his name wrong, and gave an old address. If that’s an address your son still has access to, then try to make sure that any post sent to the name he gave gets to him. If it’s not an address where your son will get the post, I think that @Grvrdvicdr ’s advice at post #7 above is good - try to get in touch with the railway to make sure they have your son’s real name and address.

When the railway write to your son, it’s important to reply. @Hadders , who often contributes to this forum has some really good advice on what to write: see https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/family-member-caught-with-wrong-ticket.223913/post-5369654 as an example of this. Your som would do well to follow this advice.

If your son can keep in touch with the railway, there’s a good chance that this can all be solved without going to court. We can’t guarantee that will be the outcome but we can be hopeful.

*For regular readers: I think this is an adequate explanation of the law at this point. I note from NRE that there is a ticket machine at Kent House which I am assuming was working and/or that the ticket office (Mon - Fri 0610 - 1730, Sat 0610- 1350, Sun closed) was open so I am assuming an opportunity to buy a ticket before travel.

 

[Grvrdvicdr]

Let’s go through what could happen. I’m taking the facts to be as you have told us (that your son got on a train at Kent House to go to Victoria: his ticket was a season ticket from Brixton to Victoria) and on those facts, your son has broken the law, which says that you should have a valid ticket for the journey you make, and you should have it before you get on the train*.

So the railway can, if they want, take your son straight to court. I would expect the railway to win at court, and your son would have to pay a fine, plus court fees, plus prosecution costs, plus compensation (the train fare that he didn’t pay).

But what happens most of the time is that the railway writes to the person (your son) to ask for an explanation. If your son writes back with an explanation that the railway thinks means that he won’t fail to pay his fare again, then instead of taking him to court they may agree to let him pay the train fare he didn’t pay, plus the costs the railway has run up in looking into what happened. This is normally less than what would have to be paid in court.

But to get the railway to agree to this, it is really important that your son keeps in touch with the railway. That means that he gets their letters and replies to them. If he doesn’t, then the matter will end up in court - and even with a false name and address, he can be prosecuted. When the fine isn’t paid, the court will appoint debt collectors who will eventually find your son - and he will have to pay the debt collectors’ costs as well as everything else.

You have said that your son gave his name wrong, and gave an old address. If that’s an address your son still has access to, then try to make sure that any post sent to the name he gave gets to him. If it’s not an address where your son will get the post, I think that @Grvrdvicdr ’s advice at post #7 above is good - try to get in touch with the railway to make sure they have your son’s real name and address.

When the railway write to your son, it’s important to reply. @Hadders , who often contributes to this forum has some really good advice on what to write: see https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/family-member-caught-with-wrong-ticket.223913/post-5369654 as an example of this. Your som would do well to follow this advice.

If your son can keep in touch with the railway, there’s a good chance that this can all be solved without going to court. We can’t guarantee that will be the outcome but we can be hopeful.

*For regular readers: I think this is an adequate explanation of the law at this point. I note from NRE that there is a ticket machine at Kent House which I am assuming was working and/or that the ticket office (Mon - Fri 0610 - 1730, Sat 0610- 1350, Sun closed) was open so I am assuming an opportunity to buy a ticket before travel.

Best assumption I can make was the ticket would have been a weekly season ticket from Brixton to Victoria purchased online, and printed from a machine. The machine number would be on the bottom of said ticket which is most likely how they knew it was Kent house. If this is the case then that’s 100% proof of the machine working.

 

[Grvrdvicdr]

The reason isn't relevant but it's not unusual for there to be faults or deliberate blocks on certain types of tickets so they can be checked manually.



No - if he is 20, your son should contact them to "come clean" and try to sort this all out himself, particularly if he would prefer to try to negotiate a settlement out-of-court rather than risk a criminal conviction.

Like to add, if your son doesn’t communicate with the railway then I’m sure there would be a way they (the courts?) can link the old address to him and figure out where he is now along with real name

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Best assumption I can make was the ticket would have been a weekly season ticket from Brixton to Victoria purchased online, and printed from a machine. The machine number would be on the bottom of said ticket which is most likely how they knew it was Kent house. If this is the case then that’s 100% proof of the machine working.

(Apologies to the original poster as this is a little bit of a tangent) Yes - this is a fair point. The OP told us that their son collected the ticket at Kent House and that at Victoria the inspector noted that the ticket had been printed at Kent House a minute before the train arrived. So that means that there must have been a working ticket machine at Kent House, and we don’t need to confuse explanations of the law by considering whether the OP’s son did or did not pass an opportunity to buy a ticket as there clearly was such an opportunity.

 

[Grvrdvicdr]

(Apologies to the original poster as this is a little bit of a tangent) Yes - this is a fair point. The OP told us that their son collected the ticket at Kent House and that at Victoria the inspector noted that the ticket had been printed at Kent House a minute before the train arrived. So that means that there must have been a working ticket machine at Kent House, and we don’t need to confuse explanations of the law by considering whether the OP’s son did or did not pass an opportunity to buy a ticket as there clearly was such an opportunity.

As far as it goes then this is a slam dunk RoRa. Now down to OP ( their son) to figure out sending correct details and follow @Hadders advice is best