Fare evasion- convicted without knowing 10 years ago!

[quick question]

Hi,

I recently got a job where they did an enhanced dbs and it came up that I had a criminal conviction in April 2015 for a fare evasion in 2014.
I had no idea about this, back then I was at uni and if I remember correctly the machines weren't working to get a ticket and when I tried to use my card whilst in the train it didn't work as I had a foreign card. The conductor advised me he had to give me a ticket-but not to worry too much as I would just get a fine in the mail (which I never got). I moved after that, got a new visa and even got several jobs that did dbs checks - one in 2018 and one in 2019 and this has never came up until now.

I know it must of been a SJP - and I know there's been a court ruling on those being quashed.

I am just not sure if I should just leave it as it will be 11 years soon, or if I should reopen the case. I have applied for a new job- and got an offer for it to be begin in March but I know they will do a DBS check for criminal convictions and I hate that it would ruin any future opportunities considering the fact that I wasn't trying to fare evade at all and tried my best to pay for a ticket on the day.

Should I do an SD or just wait for it to come off my DBS? Is it possible it will be quashed?
I now wonder if I also should disclose this to my current job as well as the one I have been offered a contract for. stressed.

 

[Haywain]

I know it must of been a SJP - and I know there's been a court ruling on those being quashed.

Actually, that is highly unlikely as the legislation that introduced the SJP was only enacted in 2015.

I now wonder if I also should disclose this to my current job as well as the one I have been offered a contract for.

Yes, definitely. Withholding information like this is much more serious than telling the (prospective) employer, especially for something that happened so long ago.

 

[furlong]

"recently"
You must act immediately you find out if you want to try to get the conviction set aside on the basis that you didn't know about the court proceedings. (You normally have at most a few weeks to sort out the paperwork.) If you don't do this then you ARE deemed guilty and will have to pay any fines, compensation and other charges when they eventually catch up with you, and your employer may be entitled to act on the basis that you were aware of the conviction when you applied but chose not to disclose it (if there were circumstances where that was lawfully required etc.).

If you genuinely were unaware, then the SD gives you a chance to talk to whichever train company it was to try to persuade them to withdraw the case, or to present a defence if you believe you might have one.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

"recently"
You must act immediately you find out if you want to try to get the conviction set aside on the basis that you didn't know about the court proceedings. (You normally have at most a few weeks to sort out the paperwork.) If you don't do this then you ARE deemed guilty and will have to pay any fines, compensation and other charges when they eventually catch up with you, and your employer may be entitled to act on the basis that you were aware of the conviction when you applied but chose not to disclose it (if there were circumstances where that was lawfully required etc.).

If you genuinely were unaware, then the SD gives you a chance to talk to whichever train company it was to try to persuade them to withdraw the case, or to present a defence if you believe you might have one.

Although bear in mind that you seem to have been able to hold down a job for the last decade without your conduct coming into question.

If I have understood that correctly, it seems to me that there is a strong chance that disclosing this conviction that you have only now become aware of will not cause you any professional problems. If you are a member of a trade union it might well be worth checking with a representative as to the attitude your current and potential employers may take, but consider the option of declaring what you have just discovered and then moving on with your life.

 

[AlterEgo]

Hi,

I recently got a job where they did an enhanced dbs and it came up that I had a criminal conviction in April 2015 for a fare evasion in 2014.
I had no idea about this, back then I was at uni and if I remember correctly the machines weren't working to get a ticket and when I tried to use my card whilst in the train it didn't work as I had a foreign card. The conductor advised me he had to give me a ticket-but not to worry too much as I would just get a fine in the mail (which I never got). I moved after that, got a new visa and even got several jobs that did dbs checks - one in 2018 and one in 2019 and this has never came up until now.

I know it must of been a SJP - and I know there's been a court ruling on those being quashed.

I am just not sure if I should just leave it as it will be 11 years soon, or if I should reopen the case. I have applied for a new job- and got an offer for it to be begin in March but I know they will do a DBS check for criminal convictions and I hate that it would ruin any future opportunities considering the fact that I wasn't trying to fare evade at all and tried my best to pay for a ticket on the day.

Should I do an SD or just wait for it to come off my DBS? Is it possible it will be quashed?
I now wonder if I also should disclose this to my current job as well as the one I have been offered a contract for. stressed.

It depends on whether you are required to declare a spent conviction under your contract or terms of employment. Your conviction will be spent as long as the sentence has been completed. Were you fined by the court? Did you pay it?

 

[Snow1964]

It depends on whether you are required to declare a spent conviction under your contract or terms of employment. Your conviction will be spent as long as the sentence has been completed. Were you fined by the court? Did you pay it?

Op said, never knew anything about it, so wouldn't have paid it. Presumably charged without being informed due to moving.

One possibility is that can't even talk to the train company, some that existed in 2014 no longer exist. @quick question which train operator was it. (Although need to check companies House to see if it legally still exists, even if not operating)

 

[WesternLancer]

"recently"
You must act immediately you find out if you want to try to get the conviction set aside on the basis that you didn't know about the court proceedings. (You normally have at most a few weeks to sort out the paperwork.) If you don't do this then you ARE deemed guilty and will have to pay any fines, compensation and other charges when they eventually catch up with you, and your employer may be entitled to act on the basis that you were aware of the conviction when you applied but chose not to disclose it (if there were circumstances where that was lawfully required etc.).

If you genuinely were unaware, then the SD gives you a chance to talk to whichever train company it was to try to persuade them to withdraw the case, or to present a defence if you believe you might have one.

Interesting case. What happens if that train company no longer exists? Ie it was somewhere that has had an operator franchise change? Would the new franchisee / current operator expect to take this on as a liability from their predecessor?

My hunch is yes.

What impact would doing a statutory declaration have now in practical terms? 10 years on would the railway prosecution department have any of the evidence it needed to re do the case?

Given we know they are good at doing it it is surprising that court bailiffs have not found the OP to get the court debt by now. Could they still be seeking that? If so could the sum have gone up significantly due to time elapsed? Doing an Stat Dec now that reset the fine if found guilty might serve to reduce any debt that had built up perhaps?

Lots of questions raised here but I’m sure people on this forum would know the answers to them.

OP do you know which train company guard it would have been 10 years ago or can you recall what journey you were on which might help us identify the train company that may have prosecuted you back then?

 

[Pushpit]

Should I do an SD or just wait for it to come off my DBS? Is it possible it will be quashed?
I now wonder if I also should disclose this to my current job as well as the one I have been offered a contract for. stressed.

A lot of things here don't seem to make sense to me, since it is rare that byelaw and RoRA convictions appear on any DBS format, though it certainly can happen. Furthermore someone, somewhere, decided it was relevant for the recent Enhanced application's role, which at this stage is also odd given the passage of time. The only time I've seen this happen was when there were other unrelated convictions. If you were under 18 when originally stopped you have a separate basis for having the item removed from your record. The Disclosure organisations only get the conviction date and not always your correct DOB, so lots of mistakes happen there.

But that said, if it is there now then it should fall off after 12 years, or just before, since I don't think the Disclosure organisations go around checking whether fines have been paid - at Enhanced level it's not about whether a conviction is Spent or not, it's whether there is a relevant conviction. That said, if the fine is not paid, at least on paper the conviction is not Spent. Then it depends whether the fine went off to the outsourced agencies (debt collectors under a different label) since they will have their fees and charges in there too.

The timellne for SJP doesn't fit in here, but if it was SJP + RoRA then you may benefit from the "nullity" process currently ongoing. In which case you need to liaise with the Disclosure organisation to have it removed from the record if the conviction is regarded as a nullity. Otherwise if it went to Magistrates then via a SD you can have your day in court again, either because you are innocent, or because the sentence didn't take account of your circumstances (financial circumstances mainly). And it may be the TOC may not be interested in reworking this, or even able to do so.

 

[Somewhere]

Interesting case. What happens if that train company no longer exists? Ie it was somewhere that has had an operator franchise change? Would the new franchisee / current operator expect to take this on as a liability from their predecessor?

My hunch is yes.

What impact would doing a statutory declaration have now in practical terms? 10 years on would the railway prosecution department have any of the evidence it needed to re do the case?

Given we know they are good at doing it it is surprising that court bailiffs have not found the OP to get the court debt by now. Could they still be seeking that? If so could the sum have gone up significantly due to time elapsed? Doing an Stat Dec now that reset the fine if found guilty might serve to reduce any debt that had built up perhaps?

Lots of questions raised here but I’m sure people on this forum would know the answers to them.

OP do you know which train company guard it would have been 10 years ago or can you recall what journey you were on which might help us identify the train company that may have prosecuted you back then?

New franchisees take over the liabilities of those they replace.
I wouldn't be surprised if records have been destroyed or lost, in which case there will be no evidence

 

[MotCO]

New franchisees take over the liabilities of those they replace.
I wouldn't be surprised if records have been destroyed or lost, in which case there will be no evidence

Would the Court have kept any evidence, or a record of the evidence?

 

[Bletchleyite]

How long for such a conviction to become spent?

 

[MotCO]

How long for such a conviction to become spent?

If it hasn't been paid?

 

[AlterEgo]

How long for such a conviction to become spent?

One year after conviction, but only if the sentence has been completed (ie: the fine paid). It’s odd the OP hasn’t been chased for this.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

One year after conviction, but only if the sentence has been completed (ie: the fine paid). It’s odd the OP hasn’t been chased for this.

Given the time that has passed, maybe a n attachment of earnings order (I think that's the term, apologies if wrong) was made, complied with and forgotten about in the ensuing eight or nine years? Perhaps the OP can rack their memory over whether they went through a few pay packets some years back which were inexplicably short of expectations.

 

[emily369]

Out of interest, are you saying a conviction for fare evasion, when the fine had been paid, only lasts for a year? After that point does it not appear on a DBS check etc?

 

[Pushpit]

Out of interest, are you saying a conviction for fare evasion, when the fine had been paid, only lasts for a year? After that point does it not appear on a DBS check etc?

Generally byelaw convictions (from any source) don't appear on DBS anyway, they are proper convictions but they are not Recordable - they are not put on the Police National Computer because there is no requirement for low level crimes to end up there. To simplify, perhaps overly so, if there is no potential prison sentence, it's not Recordable. Bear in mind that nearly a third of UK males have a conviction of some sort - if the PNC was filled up with byelaw offences for people dropping a crisp wrapper then it becomes almost useless.

RoRA offences in theory are Recordable since in very obscure ways it could theoretically lead to the fare evader ending up in prison but I suspect that last happened 80 years ago (exaggerating for effect). I very rarely see rail evasion on DBS paperwork, and I see hundreds every year. But as ever, that's almost always a side show - if your employer asks or requires you to disclose convictions and cautions, and they are within the Rehabilitation of Offenders legislation, then it's important to do this, since failure to do so is far more serious than a 3 year old fine for dodging a rail fare.

Enhanced DBS - these can show either of the above, along with interactions with the police, for just under 12 years. Other DBS won't show spent convictions, except when there is some sort of admin failure, which sadly happens a lot.

Both RoRA and byelaw offences are Spent within one year, to answer your last question, so long as the fine is paid. If it's not paid then it remains Unspent until it is paid or otherwise disposed. For younger people they can be Spent sooner, and there are other protections for those who were under 18 when convicted.

The OP appears to be not always UK resident, a rather large proportion of fines simply never get paid, and if the debt collectors can't find the person, or they have simply gone to another country, then the fines just sit uncollected. Many fines from the London area are never paid, given that this is a city where it's common for people to change addresses every few months.

 

[chawky]

I’m not a legal professional, but personally I would appeal this conviction being disclosed.

Enhanced DBS checks are intended to safeguard vulnerable groups by disclosing relevant convictions and intelligence that may be missed by the standard check.

I struggle to see how fare evasion convictions are ever relevant to safeguarding, so I think you should appeal this information being disclosed.

Challenge your DBS check by appeal - Saunders Law

If you think that information should not have been included in your enhanced DBS certificate then we may be able to help you challenge it.

www.saunders.co.uk

 

[Pushpit]

I struggle to see how fare evasion convictions are ever relevant to safeguarding, so I think you should appeal this information being disclosed.

Those that process Enhanced DBS are usually very much aware of the limitation of disclosure and barring processes, and certainly if this had crossed my desk in respect of say a palliative care nurse for something 10 years ago, I wouldn't take it too seriously, if it was in isolation. One thing that helps here is that many Enhanced DBS roles are vacant or difficult to fill, and in social care they can be poorly paid and with long hours. But like I said before, this case seems very odd, unless there is more in the details, since something like this would not normally survive the filtering stage. We did see - back in 2018 or so - a rise in silly DBS print-outs, since a new unit was established in 2017 in Port Talbot, reviewing and tracing unpaid fines, and some offences suddenly attracted visibility because they were traced back to (e.g.) a corrected National Insurance number. It may be the OP has fallen victim to that.

However more generally I certainly can see where fare evasion convictions are very much relevant to safeguarding. If someone "borrows" a relative's free travel card, perhaps without their knowledge, would I want them looking after someone vulnerable, who typically won't keep their possessions safely store away? How about someone who deliberately and systematically digitally alters their tickets or railcards - should they be allowed to handle methadone substitute scripts?

 

[quick question]

Hi thank you everyone who replied…
To answer a few questions- I found this SO ODD myself.. the train was from Huddersfield to Leeds and I gave the conductor my details, never got a fine in the mail. I did move address because I was an international student but had post forwarded.

After UNI- I got a job w a company that had government contracts therefore a dBs was done in 2018 and this didn’t come up. I also had dBs done by a school because I teach dance to kids, again I have copies of these and there was nothing there.

Again in 2019 I got a job closer to home with government contracts who also did a DBS check and nothing came up. I’ve also applied for visas in the time being and nothing about this has ever come up until now.

I was hired by a college recently to do some more teaching and they needed a new one. An enhanced DBS (so maybe this is why) The job offer I have pending is for a major airline company and they will be doing a DBS check in the next couple of months (I’m sure that will be enhanced as well). When I got the new certificate in the mail everything was clear except under the convictions it says offense: traveling railway without paying fare- Sept 03, 2014 :
In terms of fines it says

Disposal:
Fine: 400
Costs: 150
Compensation: 6.00
Victim surcharge: 40.00

I believe it was northern rail but I’m not sure.

I’ve never gotten a fine let alone a notice to be in court and as I’m on a visa, I would have taken a court appearance very seriously. Again I didn’t intend to fare evade- my credit card didn’t have chip and pin at the time and when he tried the swiping way it didn’t work. This was so long ago, and I work w children as well as being a single mother. I can’t afford to lose my job over it. Thank you all for your help and advice.

 

[swt_passenger]

Hi thank you everyone who replied…
To answer a few questions- I found this SO ODD myself.. the train was from Huddersfield to Leeds and I gave the conductor my details, never got a fine in the mail. I did move address because I was an international student but had post forwarded.

There is not a process that allows you to ‘get a fine in the mail’, after a conductor takes your details, although a lot of people seem to think that‘s what will happen.

You would either get a penalty fare at the time the incident is detected, or if your details are taken for follow up the TOC writes to you, but at that stage you’re normally told they’re considering prosecution, and you’re invited to tell them why they should not do that. You have missed any letters sent at the time so they took you to court without your knowledge.

 

[Pushpit]

I’ve never gotten a fine let alone a notice to be in court and as I’m on a visa, I would have taken a court appearance very seriously. Again I didn’t intend to fare evade- my credit card didn’t have chip and pin at the time and when he tried the swiping way it didn’t work. This was so long ago, and I work w children as well as being a single mother. I can’t afford to lose my job over it. Thank you all for your help and advice.

Thank you for the extra detail. There are several ways to handle this.

1) For employers, simply explain what you have said here, so that on Enhanced DBS it's clear what has happened. For those organisations doing lots of DBS and with HR professionals in place then that's probably good enough for now. The problem tends to be voluntary bodies, such as sports groups (not sure about dance groups) since they may not understand the process well or general HR legislation. I would pro-actively mention this issue to your employer, whenever relevant, such as new position or a new DBS requirement.

2) You can contact DBS and ask them to add a note to your file - this may mean that when an Enhanced DBS is done they will then process it accordingly. For other DBS, not enhanced, it wouldn't show up normally, though I'm a bit concerned that the cat is out of the bag it may cause you a bureaucratic headache.

3) For the courts, this is not going to go away - the court system thinks you owe them £596 and in their eyes you have an unspent conviction. You could just pay the £596 - then the conviction is spent and at some point DBS will forget about it. This is probably the easiest solution but it's probably the wrong thing to do.

4) You can apply - immediately - for a Statutory Declaration to set aside the original court hearing, on the basis that this is the first you have heard about this. You would then get a new hearing, if the SD is accepted, and a chance to plead guilty or not guilty. Given the extra details I can see a case for pleading not guilty - the rail companies' equipment wasn't working and they didn't contact you at the correct address. I suspect that Northern will just leave this unchallenged since I can't believe they will be in a position to argue with you. In which case your conviction will be overturned, but obviously I can't guarantee that.

 

[quick question]

Thank you so much for replying in such detail. I am going to let the employers know asap and I think I may go the SD route as well as contacting DBS. Thanks again for the advice everyone, I really appreciate you all taking the time to reply especially during the holiday period.

 

[Snow1964]

From memory when we moved and did mail redirection, there were email confirmations. Unless you have had mass clear out of your mail inbox then should still have these.

If you need to write to Northern Rail or DBS might be worth enclosing copy saying you had all mail forwarded so don't know why the court apparently fined you but no one let you know.

If you do a statutory declaration, best to do it with a solicitor, if you do it at the court they sometimes seem to just relist and reprocess it again.

 

[pedr]

Note number 7 in this document from Unlock says that the rehabilitation period for a fine runs whether or not the fine is paid: https://unlock.org.uk/advice/roa-long-list-of-sentences-and-disposals/

So this conviction should be spent for the purposes of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act. It ought, nevertheless, to be disclosed where an employer or officialdom is permitted to ask questions about spent convictions, which will presumably include things which require enhanced DBS checks.

 

[island]

I’m not a legal professional, but personally I would appeal this conviction being disclosed.

Enhanced DBS checks are intended to safeguard vulnerable groups by disclosing relevant convictions and intelligence that may be missed by the standard check.

I struggle to see how fare evasion convictions are ever relevant to safeguarding, so I think you should appeal this information being disclosed.

This is incorrect.

The convictions disclosed on a standard and an enhanced DBS check are the same. Certain convictions may be filtered/excluded from both reports after a period of time e.g. 11 years.

The relevancy check applies only to additional information or “soft intelligence” that may be held on the PNC. Not to convictions.

2) You can contact DBS and ask them to add a note to your file - this may mean that when an Enhanced DBS is done they will then process it accordingly.

DBS does not “add notes to files” at the request of individuals.

The job offer I have pending is for a major airline company and they will be doing a DBS check in the next couple of months (I’m sure that will be enhanced as well).

Airlines are not entitled to do enhanced DBS checks.

the court system thinks you owe them £596 and in their eyes you have an unspent conviction. You could just pay the £596 - then the conviction is spent

This is incorrect. The payment or not of a fine has no connection to when the conviction becomes spent.

 

[Pushpit]

Airlines are not entitled to do enhanced DBS checks.

Yes, they can - for example for medical staff employed by airlines, and those crew responsible for child care in loco parentis.

Disclosure Scotland and DBS both add notes to files in particular circumstances and at the request of the individual, I have seen that happen.

 

[FinsburyPark]

What I see that no one has mentioned is why the onboard ticket machine doesnt work well with non UK (foriegn) issued bank cards.

Surely there are others out there, some might be tourists that are not and have never been residents of the UK, including part time residents.

 

[Snow1964]

What I see that no one has mentioned is why the onboard ticket machine doesnt work well with non UK (foriegn) issued bank cards.

There is more standardisation now, but if you swipe it (as Op says they did), then needs a compatible magnetic strip, and decade ago there were cards with different features worldwide.

 

[FinsburyPark]

While i dont want to be seen a promoting fare evasion, there is the point to be made that someone who comes to the UK as a simple tourist with no interest, desire or inlclination to ever become a UK resident basically has nothing to worry about should this ever happen to them.

 

[Starmill]

While i dont want to be seen a promoting fare evasion, there is the point to be made that someone who comes to the UK as a simple tourist with no interest, desire or inlclination to ever become a UK resident basically has nothing to worry about should this ever happen to them.

Getting yourself convicted is quite an unwise thing to do if you might ever want to enter that country again.