Fare evasion letter 'provisionally authorized for prosecution'

[dellfonic]

Hi,

This is my first post here or any forum anywhere, so please be gentle

So, to keep it brief, my partner got stopped on 13th September at Penge East Zone 4 using a Zone 1-2 monthly travel card.

For the past 4 years she's bought a zone 1-3 for her work at Victoria from Sydenham Hill Zone 3 (which I drive her to and from). It just so happens that for a few months she inexplicably only had a zone 1-2 card and was using Penge East due to huge traffic delays at Sydenham Hill.

I've done some online investigation and spoken to a few solicitors and it seems the advice is to write a letter appealing for an out of court settlement.

So I've written a draft explaining the situation, being fully transparent about the period of offences, sincerely apologising, showing contrition and offering to pay admin costs.

Not that it's in any way an excuse, but I thought it could be helpful to mention that for the past few months we've been going through two IVF treatments (privately in Greece), so that's been both mentally and physically stressful.

Any thoughts or advice would be massively appreciated. A conviction would be devastating in many ways.

 

[furlong]

So I've written a draft explaining the situation, being fully transparent about the period of offences, sincerely apologising, showing contrition and offering to pay admin costs.

and the fares that were not paid.

While technically, if prosecuted, you could make the case that this should be the difference in cost between the two travelcards (look up the case of the City barrister Peter Barnett prosecuted by Chiltern "the actual loss is £5,892.70 and not the £19,689 as claimed"), in practice you might find that they want to calculate it based on single fares for the journeys (and possibly even disregarding the season ticket that was held). The difference between these two figures might give you some leverage in negotiating a settlement (i.e. if it goes to court, you might push for the court to award the lower amount in compensation, but out of court you might accept the higher figure).

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Hi,

This is my first post here or any forum anywhere, so please be gentle

So, to keep it brief, my partner got stopped on 13th September at Penge East Zone 4 using a Zone 1-2 monthly travel card.

For the past 4 years she's bought a zone 1-3 for her work at Victoria from Sydenham Hill Zone 3 (which I drive her to and from). It just so happens that for a few months she inexplicably only had a zone 1-2 card and was using Penge East due to huge traffic delays at Sydenham Hill.

I've done some online investigation and spoken to a few solicitors and it seems the advice is to write a letter appealing for an out of court settlement.

So I've written a draft explaining the situation, being fully transparent about the period of offences, sincerely apologising, showing contrition and offering to pay admin costs.

Not that it's in any way an excuse, but I thought it could be helpful to mention that for the past few months we've been going through two IVF treatments (privately in Greece), so that's been both mentally and physically stressful.

Any thoughts or advice would be massively appreciated. A conviction would be devastating in many ways.

Has your partner been using a paper Travelcard or an Oyster card? If the latter, was there always a positive balance on it (to pay for the extension fare)? Did she always tap in and out?

 

[dellfonic]

It's an Oyster card that was often faulty with the contactless function so she didn't always tap in and out. She tapped out on this occasion but the officer took her to one side in order to check previous journeys.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

It's an Oyster card that was often faulty with the contactless function so she didn't always tap in and out. She tapped out on this occasion but the officer took her to one side in order to check previous journeys.

Was there a positive balance?

 

[dellfonic]

and the fares that were not paid.

While technically, if prosecuted, you could make the case that this should be the difference in cost between the two travelcards (look up the case of the City barrister Peter Barnett prosecuted by Chiltern "the actual loss is £5,892.70 and not the £19,689 as claimed"), in practice you might find that they want to calculate it based on single fares for the journeys (and possibly even disregarding the season ticket that was held). The difference between these two figures might give you some leverage in negotiating a settlement (i.e. if it goes to court, you might push for the court to award the lower amount in compensation, but out of court you might accept the higher figure).

Thanks for the information, I'm aware of this case but in all honesty, I want to do everything to avoid her going to court and face a criminal prosecution which would affect her future job prospects and jeopardise her British Citizenship. I think the stress would have a catastrophic on the IVF treatment in particular.

 

[dellfonic]

Was there a positive balance?

Yes and she tapped out, but was still taken to one side after making some checks

 

[dellfonic]

Here is a draft of the letter, any comments would be hugely appreciated:

"I apologise unreservedly and sincerely for having the incorrect travel card for the appropriate zones in which I was travelling. It was a grave error of judgement for which there can be no excuse. For the past 4 years I have been purchasing a zone 1-3 monthly travel card for my normal daily commute from Sydenham Hill to Victoria - my partner gives me a lift to and from Sydenham Hill station nearly every day. For approximately 3 months prior to the incident I was using a zone 1-2 card and this coincided with using Penge East instead of Sydenham Hill due to a great deal of roadworks and traffic in the Westwood Hill/Crystal Palace Rd roundabout causing huge delays. I realise this was a big mistake for which I sincerely apologise and will never be repeating in the future. It’s important to mention that the card I was using (which I’ve included in this letter) was faulty as the contactless function often failed and I have now switched to another card which has been updated for zones 1-3 as it has been for the past 4 years.

For the past few months and during the time of the offence, I have been undergoing IVF treatment abroad. It has been a stressful period both mentally and physically from the drugs and travelling involved. At the time of the incident I learnt that the first IVF treatment was unsuccessful and the second course of IVF was initiated shortly after but not completed due to complications. The third course begins in a few weeks.

I fully realise the severity of this matter and am willing to immediately pay all administration costs incurred, all fares that are due and any necessary fine. I do not wish for this matter to waste any more of your resources and valuable time and don't want to trouble the courts with this incident."

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Here is a draft of the letter, any comments would be hugely appreciated:

"I apologise unreservedly and sincerely for having the incorrect travel card for the appropriate zones in which I was travelling. It was a grave error of judgement for which there can be no excuse. For the past 4 years I have been purchasing a zone 1-3 monthly travel card for my normal daily commute from Sydenham Hill to Victoria - my partner gives me a lift to and from Sydenham Hill station nearly every day. For approximately 3 months prior to the incident I was using a zone 1-2 card and this coincided with using Penge East instead of Sydenham Hill due to a great deal of roadworks and traffic in the Westwood Hill/Crystal Palace Rd roundabout causing huge delays. I realise this was a big mistake for which I sincerely apologise and will never be repeating in the future. It’s important to mention that the card I was using (which I’ve included in this letter) was faulty as the contactless function often failed and I have now switched to another card which has been updated for zones 1-3 as it has been for the past 4 years.

For the past few months and during the time of the offence, I have been undergoing IVF treatment abroad. It has been a stressful period both mentally and physically from the drugs and travelling involved. At the time of the incident I learnt that the first IVF treatment was unsuccessful and the second course of IVF was initiated shortly after but not completed due to complications. The third course begins in a few weeks.

I fully realise the severity of this matter and am willing to immediately pay all administration costs incurred, all fares that are due and any necessary fine. I do not wish for this matter to waste any more of your resources and valuable time and don't want to trouble the courts with this incident."

I would definitely not be admitting the usage outside the relevant Zones, on other occasions. Just talk about what happened on the day in question. No need to incriminate yourself needlessly!

I would leave out the part about IVF. The case worker will, quite frankly, not care about things such as this, and it makes the letter a little long - they are concerned with things like whether it is intentional or not, and whether or not there is a pattern of offending or a one-off incident. What was the reason for holding the Zones 1-2 Travelcard rather than the required 1-4 one?

I would also remove the bit about why you got off at Penge East rather than Sydenham Hill. It doesn't matter why you did it, it happened and that's all the railway cares about!

The apology seems good, but I would redraft the last paragraph to remove the last sentence and to remove the reference to fine, perhaps simply saying:

"I fully realise the severity of this matter and am willing to immediately pay the outstanding fare, any administration costs you have incurred, and an administrative penalty for the purposes of settling the matter."

Have you received a letter from the train company yet? If so, what does it say?

 

[furlong]

This is one of the more serious examples that appear on the forum and I'd suggest waiting for a letter before you send them anything and then employing a solicitor to handle your response.

 

[dellfonic]

I would definitely not be admitting the usage outside the relevant Zones, on other occasions. Just talk about what happened on the day in question. No need to incriminate yourself needlessly!

I would leave out the part about IVF. The case worker will, quite frankly, not care about things such as this, and it makes the letter a little long - they are concerned with things like whether it is intentional or not, and whether or not there is a pattern of offending or a one-off incident. What was the reason for holding the Zones 1-2 Travelcard rather than the required 1-4 one?

I would also remove the bit about why you got off at Penge East rather than Sydenham Hill. It doesn't matter why you did it, it happened and that's all the railway cares about!

The apology seems good, but I would redraft the last paragraph to remove the last sentence and to remove the reference to fine, perhaps simply saying:

"I fully realise the severity of this matter and am willing to immediately pay the outstanding fare, any administration costs you have incurred, and an administrative penalty for the purposes of settling the matter."

Have you received a letter from the train company yet? If so, what does it say?

Many thanks for your response, very helpful indeed and much appreciated. I will edit a lot out as recommended and keep it simple.

We received a letter on 25th October declaring 'the matter has been provisionally authorized for prosecution' and inviting comments about the incident, as well as asking for confirmation of details. My partner filled in her details but didn't make any comments.

One solicitor advised to 'wait and see' how they respond and another advised us to write a letter being completely candid about everything. Another two offered to write a letter of representation for a significant cost.

I'm thinking there's not much to lose by sending this letter first as they did invite comments. I will send it first class recorded as I hear that Southeastern are as dreadfully inefficient with these cases as they are with the trains. It would be typical for them to send the next letter whilst we are away receiving the next course of IVF. My fear is that it will be a court summons looking to prosecute, in which case I would probably get a solicitor involved.

 

[dellfonic]

This is one of the more serious examples that appear on the forum and I'd suggest waiting for a letter before you send them anything and then employing a solicitor to handle your response.

They did already send a letter which needed a response within 7 days which was completed last week, but with no comments added. That's why I think it may be worth sending this letter in attempt to settle out of court.

 

[holemone]

Hi Dellfonic, I’m on the same boat and did what your wife did.

 

[holemone]

Hi,

This is my first post here or any forum anywhere, so please be gentle

So, to keep it brief, my partner got stopped on 13th September at Penge East Zone 4 using a Zone 1-2 monthly travel card.

For the past 4 years she's bought a zone 1-3 for her work at Victoria from Sydenham Hill Zone 3 (which I drive her to and from). It just so happens that for a few months she inexplicably only had a zone 1-2 card and was using Penge East due to huge traffic delays at Sydenham Hill.

I've done some online investigation and spoken to a few solicitors and it seems the advice is to write a letter appealing for an out of court settlement.

So I've written a draft explaining the situation, being fully transparent about the period of offences, sincerely apologising, showing contrition and offering to pay admin costs.

Not that it's in any way an excuse, but I thought it could be helpful to mention that for the past few months we've been going through two IVF treatments (privately in Greece), so that's been both mentally and physically stressful.

Any thoughts or advice would be massively appreciated. A conviction would be devastating in many ways.

Hi @dellfonic, did you manage to settle it out of court? I made the same mistake. I wrote to Southeastern and offered to pay (whatever it costs) outside of court. Today I received a letter from Southeastern. They are parepared to settle the matter prior to the issue of a Court Summons provided you pay the sum of £31.20 being the fare avoided and a contribution of £250 towards our costs to date. The amount of £281.20 must be paid in full within 21 days of the date of this letter'

 

[holemone]

Many thanks for your response, very helpful indeed and much appreciated. I will edit a lot out as recommended and keep it simple.

We received a letter on 25th October declaring 'the matter has been provisionally authorized for prosecution' and inviting comments about the incident, as well as asking for confirmation of details. My partner filled in her details but didn't make any comments.

One solicitor advised to 'wait and see' how they respond and another advised us to write a letter being completely candid about everything. Another two offered to write a letter of representation for a significant cost.

I'm thinking there's not much to lose by sending this letter first as they did invite comments. I will send it first class recorded as I hear that Southeastern are as dreadfully inefficient with these cases as they are with the trains. It would be typical for them to send the next letter whilst we are away receiving the next course of IVF. My fear is that it will be a court summons looking to prosecute, in which case I would probably get a solicitor involved.

by the way, i didn't provide my NI number, because It didn't feel that they have the rights to obtain such private and personal detail about me.

 

[mikeg]

Holemone, you would be best placed starting your own thread rather than dragging up other dead ones. Please give as much detail as possible as to what you are accused of in order for us to help you.

 

[IanD]

Holemone, you would be best placed starting your own thread rather than dragging up other dead ones. Please give as much detail as possible as to what you are accused of in order for us to help you.

Doesn't sound like a request for help.

 

[Haywain]

Holemone, you would be best placed starting your own thread rather than dragging up other dead ones. Please give as much detail as possible as to what you are accused of in order for us to help you.

I suggested that after their first post on another thread, but it didn't happen.