Fares on Diverted Trains

[lawried123]

Hi all,
I notice that next bank holiday weekend, trains from Wokingham to Waterloo are being diverted from Virginia water via Weybridge. This is of course excellent from the public convenience point of view rather than having to get a bus through to Hounslow.
But what surprises me is that on all the travel planners it shows a dearer fare, presumably because the train is not going via Staines. This seems pretty unfair to me, after all it's not the passengers fault that the train is being diverted.
And what happens at the station buying a ticket. Would passengers even know that the train is being diverted and that they've got to buy a different ticket from the machine or would they just get a normal Waterloo return, thereas anyone who buys it online presumably pays the dearer fare.
Does anyone know if this happens anywhere else, where you pay more because the train is being diverted by a longer route.

Lawrie

 

[swt_passenger]

Hi all,
I notice that next bank holiday weekend, trains from Wokingham to Waterloo are being diverted from Virginia water via Weybridge. This is of course excellent from the public convenience point of view rather than having to get a bus through to Hounslow.
But what surprises me is that on all the travel planners it shows a dearer fare, presumably because the train is not going via Staines. This seems pretty unfair to me, after all it's not the passengers fault that the train is being diverted.
And what happens at the station buying a ticket. Would passengers even know that the train is being diverted and that they've got to buy a different ticket from the machine or would they just get a normal Waterloo return, thereas anyone who buys it online presumably pays the dearer fare.
Does anyone know if this happens anywhere else, where you pay more because the train is being diverted by a longer route.

Lawrie

It’s been happening for years. SWT and now SWR have not, (in my experience), ever bothered to add easements for engineering works diversions. At a station or at a TVM, just buy and use your normal ticket. For online sales, you're basically skewered.

Yes it sometimes happens elsewhere, but many TOCS actually do make temporary routeing guide changes for engineering works.

 

[Birmingham]

Train Operating Companies like South Western Railway can add easements to the National Routeing Guide (the set of rules which determine which fares are offered for every journey) to allow certain tickets to be used via routes which wouldn't normally be allowed, e.g. tickets routed via Staines by routes that don't pass through Staines.

It sounds as though South Western Railway hasn't done that in this case. That doesn't mean the ticket office at Wokingham, for example, wouldn't just issue the usual 'via Staines' ticket but it doesn't automatically mean you're entitled to use a 'via Staines' ticket by a route that doesn't pass through Staines.

 

[miklcct]

It sounds as though South Western Railway hasn't done that in this case. That doesn't mean the ticket office at Wokingham, for example, wouldn't just issue the usual 'via Staines' ticket but it doesn't automatically mean you're entitled to use a 'via Staines' ticket by a route that doesn't pass through Staines.

Doesn't a diverted train, in ticketing terms, considered to be both on the original route and the diverted route, making tickets on both routing valid?

 

[AlterEgo]

Doesn't a diverted train, in ticketing terms, considered to be both on the original route and the diverted route, making tickets on both routing valid?

In general, yes, although this is a right which has materialised through custom and practice and you can't point to anything written down to enforce it.

The easements mentioned are there mostly to make retailing the ticket easier in journey planners.

 

[yorkie]

Hi all,
I notice that next bank holiday weekend, trains from Wokingham to Waterloo are being diverted from Virginia water via Weybridge. This is of course excellent from the public convenience point of view rather than having to get a bus through to Hounslow.
But what surprises me is that on all the travel planners it shows a dearer fare, presumably because the train is not going via Staines. This seems pretty unfair to me, after all it's not the passengers fault that the train is being diverted.
And what happens at the station buying a ticket. Would passengers even know that the train is being diverted and that they've got to buy a different ticket from the machine or would they just get a normal Waterloo return, thereas anyone who buys it online presumably pays the dearer fare.
Does anyone know if this happens anywhere else, where you pay more because the train is being diverted by a longer route.

Lawrie

The rule is that if a train is diverted away from its normal route, any ticket that would have been valid via the original route do remain valid.

However, as others have said, in order for tickets to be retailed for itineraries which do not comply with the rules relating to the ticket, an electronic easement would need to be in place.

Pragmatic train companies will introduce easements that allow journeys which would not otherwise be deemed valid by booking systems.

However not all train companies are pragmatic; it requires the train planning team to liaise with the fares/retail department; this does not always happen unfortunately.

In practice if you buy the cheaper ticket, you would have absolutely no problem using the more expensive route; on train staff are definitely going to accept the ticket.

Doesn't a diverted train, in ticketing terms, considered to be both on the original route and the diverted route, making tickets on both routing valid?

Correct, yes.

But without an electronic easement this cannot actually be applied by booking sites.

 

[Haywain]

Doesn't a diverted train, in ticketing terms, considered to be both on the original route and the diverted route, making tickets on both routing valid?

Yes but the problem is being able to buy the ticket, in particular through an online retailer.

 

[yorkie]

Just to add to what has been said earlier, below are some examples of temporary easements for engineering works which have been introduced recently:

701022 (Fare route) During service changes on Saturday 20 August 2022. Tickets priced on (00063) VIA NEWBURY and (00494) AP NEWBURY will be valid via Didcot Parkway and Swindon. This fare route easement applies in both directions.​

GWR only plan to run trains on a few routes on Saturday, and these don't include any through Newbury. This easement means that someone with (say) a "via Newbury" Westbury-London ticket can use it on one of the trains which they plan to run.

Changed (added sections in red, removed ones in green):​

701020 (Routeing Point) During engineering work closures between 24 September and 11 October 2022, impacting journeys to and via Dorchester South from or via Yeovil Junction, Sherborne, Templecombe, Gillingham (Dorset) and Tisbury. Customers with tickets routed on (00000) ANY PERMITTED, (00955) GWR ONLY, (00829) VIA YEOVIL, (00818) NOT VIA BRISTOL and (00817 VIA BRISTOL will be able to travel via Salisbury and Brockenhurst. This routeing point easement to apply in both directions.​

This just adds a missing word.

Another easement was added this afternoon.

Changes from 18 Aug 2022 (401) to 19 Aug 2022 (402).​

​

Easement changes:​

​

Added:​

​

701023 (Fare route) During service alterations on 20 August 2022, journeys from Grays, Tilbury River and Tilbury Town to Upminster with tickets priced on (00114) VIA GRAYS and (00298) VIA OCKENDON are valid on journeys via Stanford Le Hope and Pitsea. This fare route easement applies in both directions.​

These journeys only have "via Grays" or "via Ockendon" day tickets, so this easement means that you can buy valid tickets for them.

So it can be done, and good train companies will endeavour do this, wherever it is appropriate/required.

If only we had an ombudsman, watchdog or regulator, who actually took an interest in passenger rights and had the power to act when train companies fail to act in our interests. We can but dream...

 

[David Goddard]

Very naughty of SWR, who like many TOCS are pushing people to book online, even for the most basic of tickets, gaining an extra £1.70 on a return or £2.80 on a Travelcard for these journeys.
As this keeps happening maybe the "Via Staines" coding needs to be changed to "Via Sunningdale"

 

[mangyiscute]

I always though via staines is kept (at least when from reading) because it allows travel via Slough and Windsor into Waterloo, a route which I have done with a via staines ticket before, but it wasn't checked in any gwr trains so I cannot report whether they would've been fine with it

 

[paul1609]

Just to add to what has been said earlier, below are some examples of temporary easements for engineering works which have been introduced recently:


So it can be done, and good train companies will endeavour do this, wherever it is appropriate/required.

If only we had an ombudsman, watchdog or regulator, who actually took an interest in passenger rights and had the power to act when train companies fail to act in our interests. We can but dream...

Id rather we had a taxpayers ombudsman who protected taxpayers rights to stop money being sloshed in to the rail industry to support leisure travel that is detrimental to the enviroment and of dubious economic benefit tbh

 

[yorkie]

I always though via staines is kept (at least when from reading) because it allows travel via Slough and Windsor into Waterloo, a route which I have done with a via staines ticket before, but it wasn't checked in any gwr trains so I cannot report whether they would've been fine with it

If doing something like that, I would suggest obtaining an itinerary.

 

[Bread & cheese]

Very naughty of SWR, who like many TOCS are pushing people to book online, even for the most basic of tickets, gaining an extra £1.70 on a return or £2.80 on a Travelcard for these journeys.

The situation is worse at Ascot.
Wokingham at least has route Ascot/Guildford tickets, which are valid on the route via Chertsey.
Wokingham to London via Staines SDS £17.70
Wokingham to London via Ascot/Guildford SDS £18.10

Ascot only has route Staines and route Any Permitted, so some people may pay way over the odds.
Ascot to London via Staines SDS £14.20
Ascot to London via Any Permitted CDS £26.40

 

[yorkie]

Has anyone affected by this written to SWR? It would be interesting to hear their response.