Fares to NLC 0786 (London zones 1-6) - valid for overground?

[Ams6]

Does anyone know if a fare to this NLC would be valid to North Dulwich (which is marked as being in Zone 3 but is an overground station - not underground).

Random example of a fare: http://www.brfares.com/#expert?orig=BNR&dest=0786

Thanks

A.

 

[30907]

Unfortunately, fares with the U...Zones destination are specifically through fares to London Underground/DLR stations. There are separate fares to National Rail stations that include the cross London element, and that's what you would need for North Dulwich.

Just to avoid any confusion, "Overground" officially refers to the train operator London Overground, who don't serve North Dulwich - that's a Southern route (the part of the GTR empire that mostly runs).

 

[Ams6]

Thank you - I thought that would be the case.

Is there any way to tell in the RSPS5045 data if a station is a London Underground station or not? [There are some approaches that work approximately (e.g. the CRS code starting with a Z or the region being 6).]

Thanks

 

[CyrusWuff]

Is there any way to tell in the RSPS5045 data if a station is a London Underground station or not? [There are some approaches that work approximately (e.g. the CRS code starting with a Z or the region being 6

Some, but not all, LU stations have a CRS code beginning with a Z (counter examples being the "joint" stations on the Bakerloo, District and Metropolitan Lines) and an NLC beginning with 0.

NLCs beginning with a 6 are former Eastern Region stations (e.g. 6121 is Kings Cross, 6941 is Edmonton Green, 6004 is Essex Road, etc).

 

[Ams6]

Some, but not all, LU stations have a CRS code beginning with a Z (counter examples being the "joint" stations on the Bakerloo, District and Metropolitan Lines) and an NLC beginning with 0.

NLCs beginning with a 6 are former Eastern Region stations (e.g. 6121 is Kings Cross, 6941 is Edmonton Green, 6004 is Essex Road, etc).

Right, thanks, so there is no reliable way!

I didn't mean an NLC beginning with a 6 by the way. Each station in the RSPS5045 data has a region code:

‘0’ = non-BR or LUL,
‘1’ = ER,
‘2’ = LMR,
‘3’ = SCR,
‘4’ = SR,
‘5’ = WR and
‘6’ = LUL.

However, this is not reliable either.

A.

 

[Paul Kelly]

There are some approaches that work approximately (e.g. the CRS code starting with a Z or the region being 6).

Hmm. The region code being 6 is what I would have thought of as the most reliable way. With the demise of BR regions there's nothing else it would really need to be used for so I can't see any reason why it shouldn't be being kept up to date for this purpose. If you know of any cases where that doesn't apply it's maybe worth asking RDG to fix them? The documentation says:

Identifies the region using a code
‘0’ = non-BR or LUL,
‘1’ = ER,
‘2’ = LMR,
‘3’ = SCR,
‘4’ = SR,
‘5’ = WR and
‘6’ = LUL.

 

[pdeaves]

Thank you - I thought that would be the case.

Is there any way to tell in the RSPS5045 data if a station is a London Underground station or not? [There are some approaches that work approximately (e.g. the CRS code starting with a Z or the region being 6).]

Thanks

You may find the sub-pages to http://www.railwaycodes.org.uk/crs/CRS0.shtm helpful, though admittedly they do not specifically state 'this station is LU and that one isn't'.

 

[Ams6]

Thanks,

The question ultimately is: given a fare to 0786, to which individual stations can that fare be sold?

Of course, a hard-coded list is a reasonable approach since stations change rarely.

We have RDG on the case

A.

 

[alistairlees]

Hmm. The region code being 6 is what I would have thought of as the most reliable way. With the demise of BR regions there's nothing else it would really need to be used for so I can't see any reason why it shouldn't be being kept up to date for this purpose. If you know of any cases where that doesn't apply it's maybe worth asking RDG to fix them? The documentation says:

Here's two
http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=ARM&dest=CMB
There are loads more. Fare locations are very out of sequence now.

 

[maniacmartin]

Also note that some staff at stations that are only served by London Overground will accept Zone U* tickets (e.g. Surrey Quays last time I was there). I don't know if this is an obscure rule because the ELL is a former LU line, or there is just a misunderstanding due to London Overground being a TfL concession which some staff take to mean its "part of the tube network".

 

[Paul Kelly]

Here's two
http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=ARM&dest=CMB
There are loads more. Fare locations are very out of sequence now.

This is a different thing. As Ams6 already mentioned, we're not talking about the first character of the NLC code (interesting though that is, and I'd note that the recent NLC change for Heathrow gave it a number in the "correct" 3xxx range) but rather the region code (column 86 in the L-record type in the LOC file, for anyone following along in the fares data).

 

[Paul Kelly]

Also note that some staff at stations that are only served by London Overground will accept Zone U* tickets (e.g. Surrey Quays last time I was there). I don't know if this is an obscure rule because the ELL is a former LU line, or there is just a misunderstanding do to London Overground being a TfL concession which some staff take to mean its "part of the tube network".

To add to this, there are also the "classic" interavailable National Rail lines on which U-zone fares are valid, e.g. Liverpool Street to Stratford, Richmond to Gunnersbury, Marylebone to Amersham, etc.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Also note that some staff at stations that are only served by London Overground will accept Zone U* tickets (e.g. Surrey Quays last time I was there). I don't know if this is an obscure rule because the ELL is a former LU line, or there is just a misunderstanding do to London Overground being a TfL concession which some staff take to mean its "part of the tube network".

Pre London Overgroundisation, though at the instigation of TfL, Underground tickets covering the requisite zones became valid across the whole of the North London Line. I imagine this still applies. On the core ELL route (H&I to the New Crosses) I think LU tickets are also accepted.

 

[matt_world2004]

Most of the london overground network accept london underground tickets. i believe the exceptions are
1.)Romford/Upminster
2.) stations north of seven sisters/walthamstow central.


Edit according to the conditions of carriage these are the exceptions.You can uae underground tickets on the rest of the London Overground network

Seven Sisters - Enfield Town /
Cheshunt
• Walthamstow Central - Chingford
• Stratford - Shenfield
• Romford - Upminster
• New Cross Gate - Crystal Palace /
West Croydon
• Watford High Street - Watford
Junction