FIP travel in, from, and between Verkersverbund areas in Germany

[davetheguard]

I'm in the process of planning a two week multi-centre holiday in Germany in late May and early June 2015. All travel to and within Germany will be by train using FIP cards. We've reguarly travelled in Germany by train before, but there are a couple of issues that have come up this time with relation to travel in large urban areas and their"Verkersverbund" ticket tariff zones.

On ATOC's website the "travel tips for Europe" correctly says that FIP tickets are not available to buy, if your journey is entirely within the "Verkehrsverbund" area. This leads me to ask a couple of questions, which I hope someone may be able to help me with:

1. Can you buy FIP tickets for travel by ICE/IC/EC trains between stations in adjacent "Verkehrsverbund" areas? e.g. we are staying in Duesseldorf in the Verkehrsverbund Rhein-Ruhr (VRR), and want to do a day trip to Koeln in the Verkehrsvebund Rhein-Sieg (VRS). Can we pay a FIP fare as long as we don't use local trains?

2. Does the same apply to travel within a single Verkersverbund area e.g. for a day trip from Bad Schandau in Saxony to Dresden, there are S-Bahn trains and two-hourly Euro City ones. Can we pay a FIP fare on the Euro Cities?

3. We're also doing a through journey Bad Schandau to Heidelberg. Because of the timings, we will have to use the S-Bahn as far as Dresden to connect into our ICE. Am I right in thinking that as this journey is not wholly with the Verkehrvebund tariff area, we can pay a FIP fare for whole of this journey?

Travel on the Continent using FIP cards and coupons seems to get ever more complicated, so thanks a lot in advance for any advice anyone can give!

 

[gunn13]

Just back from Germany travelling using FIP facilities.
Told by two friendly DB staff in different ticket offices that you cannot use FIP tickets or coupons to travel on wholly Verkersverbund priced tickets. But using ICE/IC/EC is perfectly fine either wholly within one area or between areas.
Apparently you can use them on some RBahn/SBahn services depending on who prices the ticket. ie. a DB priced ticket.
They also said that most conductors don't mind if you "accidentally" miss your IC/EC/ICE and use a local train. I actually never had a single ticket check once the whole time in Germany with the exception of the Brussels to Frankfurt ICE so can't really vouch for this.
One member of staff also suggested that although you cannot purchase FIP tickets from the machines; you can just purchase an IC/EC ticket with a BahnCard50 discount as it would be the same price from the machine.

 

[Wild Swan]

I'd agree with almost everything said by gunn13. Where an FIP IC/EC fare is available for a journey within a Verkehrsverbund area, I've never had a problem using this on RE/RB services as well. For fares on RE/RB services, a good guide is to look a journey up on the DB journey planner. Verkehrsverbund fares are not shown, so if it does give you a fare, there will almost certainly by an FIP version (as long as it's on DB-operated services).

I would, however, counsel caution at buying a BahnCard 50 from a machine in place of an FIP ticket. I used to do this but stopped after receiving a severe telling-off from the gripper on an ICE from Nuremburg to Munich. A BC50 ticket confers additional benefits such as free use of city transport at origin and destination which obviously isn't available to FIP card holders.

To specifically answer davetheguard's questions:

1. Yes, and you can use local services with it.

2. Yes, I've done exactly that.

3. Yes you can.

 

[davetheguard]

Thank you both for your very helpful replies; I'm much clearer on how things stand now.

With regard to use of ticket machines to buy FIP tickets, I arrived early one morning at Trier station to find the ticket office still shut, but was told by the person manning the information kiosk to buy a ticket using the "child" button. I'm not sure if this is the official position, or not; but tickets were inspected on the train in both directions, and handed back without comment.

 

[Wild Swan]

I don't think buying a child ticket from a machine is the official position (bearing in mind how much Germans are sticklers for the rules), but if you're stuck with no ticket office open, I think it's a better bet than buying a BC50 ticket.

Also bear in mind, though, that if you can book well in advance for a long distance journey, it's often cheaper (sometimes much cheaper) to buy a full fare Sparpreis (Saver fare) rather than an FIP ticket. The only downside is that a Sparpreis is restricted to booked train only (like our Advance fares), but you can book them online and print off at home. As an example, looking 3 months ahead, a Sparpreis from Bad Schandau to Heidelberg is €29 as against an FIP fare of €52.50 (IC) or €58 (ICE). If you're travelling with other people, the savings are even greater as Sparpreis also gives a discount for 2-5 people travelling together.

 

[dutchflyer]

Yes, EC/ICE trains are never (well-there are small exceptions for everything) integrated in VV-tariffs and thus outside them.
BUT: it may often still work out cheaper, certainly if you intend to do more travelling and also uses buses/trams, to pay the VV fares and use the local trains etc as paying 50% for the long distance trains.
It is right that child fares (50%) are the ones to choose, not BC50, as explained above.

 

[davetheguard]

Thanks to Wild Swan for highlighting how cheap Sparpreis tickets can be in comparison to the FIP fare; it's not really something I'd considered before. 29 Euros from Bad Schandau to Heidelberg is good value compared to a FIP single at 55 Euros. And even the first class Sparpreis is only 39 Euros.

I did notice that on the DB site, a seat reservation is included with the first class Sparpreis ticket, but not apparently with the 2nd class one. Is that the usual arrangement with these tickets? The loco2 website makes no mention of a seat reservation for either class.

In any case I'll be booking one of these tickets rather than a FIP for this journey; I'm already getting a Quer durchs Land ticket for Berlin - Goerlitz, and a Sachsen Laender ticket for Goerlitz to Bad Schandau.....

Thanks again, Wild Swan!

 

[Wild Swan]

You're very welcome. Bear in mind that to get the best prices, you need to get in quick when bookings open (usually 92 days in advance). After that, prices will start to rise as quotas sell out, again, just like UK Advance tickets. Also be aware that if you print off at home, you must present your nominated credit/debit card with the ticket as ID, or you may be severely chinged.

DB changed their seat reservation arrangements at the December timetable change. All 1st class normal and Saver fare tickets now include seat reservations in the price. Reservations in 2nd class are still charged for additionally. What I don't know is whether 1st class 50% FIP tickets now also include seat reservations. Does anybody know?

 

[30907]

In any case I'll be booking one of these tickets rather than a FIP for this journey; I'm already getting a Quer durchs Land ticket for Berlin - Goerlitz, and a Sachsen Laender ticket for Goerlitz to Bad Schandau.....

Thanks again, Wild Swan!

IIRC you can beat a QdL by using a Berlin Brandenburg ticket and then buying a ZVON day ticket on the Cottbus to Goerlitz train, but I'd have to recheck as it was some years ago.
The ZVON ticket (aka Euro Neiße) also gives discount on the Zittau ng lines - but do I detect a tramway theme?

 

[davetheguard]

IIRC you can beat a QdL by using a Berlin Brandenburg ticket and then buying a ZVON day ticket on the Cottbus to Goerlitz train, but I'd have to recheck as it was some years ago.
The ZVON ticket (aka Euro Neiße) also gives discount on the Zittau ng lines - but do I detect a tramway theme?

No, there's not really a tramway theme; primarily places have been chosen because they sound like attractive places to stay, and good bases to explore the area from. However, I've always regarded trams as a very civilised form of transport, and no doubt we will make use of them!

I've not had any luck at the ZVON site regarding some form of Tageskarte ticket (which seems clunky and rather "local authority" like, if you know what I mean); if you're able to find out any details yourself I'd appreciate it. We will be using the tram from the station to town centre in Goerlitz, so a combined ticket would be useful. We also plan to travel on the narrow gauge steam railway from Zittau you mention.

You also mention buying the ticket on the train. Is this acceptable in Germany? And do the ODEG operated trains have Guards to buy a ticket from?

 

[30907]

No, there's not really a tramway theme; primarily places have been chosen because they sound like attractive places to stay, and good bases to explore the area from. However, I've always regarded trams as a very civilised form of transport, and no doubt we will make use of them!

I've not had any luck at the ZVON site regarding some form of Tageskarte ticket (which seems clunky and rather "local authority" like, if you know what I mean); if you're able to find out any details yourself I'd appreciate it. We will be using the tram from the station to town centre in Goerlitz, so a combined ticket would be useful. We also plan to travel on the narrow gauge steam railway from Zittau you mention.

You also mention buying the ticket on the train. Is this acceptable in Germany? And do the ODEG operated trains have Guards to buy a ticket from?

http://www.zvon.de/en/EURO-NEISSE-tickets/ is your best bet. The steam supplement is €5 each.
It's valid from Spremberg which is the last stop in Berlin Brandenburg, so no question about validity. Its also valid in a considerable area of CZ and PL - I used one to do the complete circuit via the recently reopened Harrachov route before heading to Berlin.

Buying on board regional trains isn't generally allowed but ODEG specifically permit it. You'll need cash. Memory says it was a human not a machine, who also sold coffees.

Goerlitz is very nice as are its trams and you must certainly ride the Kirnitschtalbahn tramway at Bad Schandau...

 

[davetheguard]

Thanks for the ZVON link 30907. For some reason when I had previously googled it I just kept getting what appeared to be mission statements and details of statutory responsibilities!

Now we've got a fare and validity details I'm sure we'll be making use of this ticket during our stay in Goerlitz.

I see that the Zittau steam railway lines are included in the ZVON network map, but I haven't yet been able to find any reference to a 5 Euro supplement you mention. I must have another look.

In any event, thanks again.

 

[Llanigraham]

From personal experience on 2 of the mountain railways in Switzerland, just having a railway ID card resulted in a 50% discount!
And I don't have FIP.

 

[30907]

The info you need is under Tarif in German only. The NG website www.soeg-zittau.de seems also to be in German only.

 

[davetheguard]

I think I'm being particuarly slow today, sorry.

I still can't find the reference to the 5 Euro steam supplement at the ZVON site. I clicked on "tickets" in the German pages, but found nothing either there or in the "Linienverzeichnis" (line index) PDF, which shows validity on the steam railway, but no reference to a supplement that I can translate.

However, the steam railways website (soeg-zittau.de) does mention a "Historik - Beitrag" (historical contribution) of 5 Euros. This advice is dated 01.08.11.

So, please don't think I'm doubting what you've said, which has been very helpful; I'm just wondering as it is shown on one site dated 4 years ago, but not at the other, if it still applies or not.

That said, in any event, it is a real bonus being able to using a local rover ticket on a steam railway. Don't know of anywhere that happens in the U.K., with the notable exception of the Ffestiniog and the All Line Rover.

 

[30907]

http://www.zvon.de/de/Tarif-der-SOEG/

Yes, the price of the supplement was last raised 4 years ago but the page is still valid

 

[davetheguard]

http://www.zvon.de/de/Tarif-der-SOEG/

Yes, the price of the supplement was last raised 4 years ago but the page is still valid

Thanks for being patient with me, and for supplying the link! I think I must have been looking under "Euro-Neisse Ticket" rather than under "tarif". By the way, I had wondered about what the name of the ticket meant: apparently the Neisse is the name of the river that flows through Goerlitz and forms the post-1945 border with Poland.

We're really looking forward to our visit to Goerlitz which sound like a really attractive place; and with plenty of local railway interest too with local trains from the Berlin direction operated by ODEG; and those from Dresden by another operator (trilex in timetables, but not sure if that is a brand or operator name).

Of course the place has a small tram network too, and the fact that it is right next door to Poland & the Czech Republic adds interest.

Anyone who has seen the films "the Reader" with Kate Winslet, or "the Book Thief" will already have seen the place, as it had a staring role in both.

 

[davetheguard]

You're very welcome. Bear in mind that to get the best prices, you need to get in quick when bookings open (usually 92 days in advance). After that, prices will start to rise as quotas sell out, again, just like UK Advance tickets. Also be aware that if you print off at home, you must present your nominated credit/debit card with the ticket as ID, or you may be severely chinged.

DB changed their seat reservation arrangements at the December timetable change. All 1st class normal and Saver fare tickets now include seat reservations in the price. Reservations in 2nd class are still charged for additionally. What I don't know is whether 1st class 50% FIP tickets now also include seat reservations. Does anybody know?

As a result of Wild Swan's advice, I've booked public Sparpreis tickets rather than FIP rate for our journey from Bad Schandau to Heidelberg. I booked with DB's website on the day bookings opened:

1st class Sparpreis: 39 Euros including reservations. (The 2nd class Sparpreis was even cheaper at 29 Euros)
2nd class FIP fare: 52.50 Euros + cost of reservations.

No contest for the sort of fixed, hotel to hotel, journey we're making. Thanks again, Wild Swan!

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

Re: Reservations on DB. FIP fares never include reservations (and they are seldom needed in my experience). The Sparpreis fares on 1st class now include them for no extra charge but regular 1st class fees do not. If one is booking at about T+7, one can get some pretty good 1st class Sparpreis fares particularly if you are flexible on times.