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First class on SWR 458

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ivorytoast28

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So tonight I was at Woking hoping to board the 22:13 service to Haslemere. The train that pulled up was a 5 coach 458 that said "not in service" on the front. This is the first time I've seen a 458 on this route but I don't travel it all that often.

Anyway being only 5 carriages it was packed and standing as I joined the front carriage. There was an area to the left with blue seats (as opposed to the normal red) that had larger head rests. Passengers seemed to be assuming this to be first class as it was empty despite being an otherwise overloaded train. However, there was no indication at all that this was first class in terms of signage.

So my questions are:

What makes something first class? (Perhaps that is an obvious question but if a passenger has no way of telling whether it is first or standard then surely the passenger should not be penalised for assuming it is standard. What level of signage if any is required (there was none here))?

Was this first class or not? The arguments for it being first class is this service is advertised as having first class and these seats are visibly different from the rest of the train. The arguments against are that there is no indication via signage or announcements that it is.
 
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Flange Squeal

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The blue seats on the Class 458s that have them are a leftover from those unit's conversion from 458/0s - it is no longer First Class, hence the lack of signage now. This service (2145 Waterloo to Haslemere) is booked to be a Class 458 and as such there is a note in the timetable denoting it is Standard Class only (an 'S' at the top of the column in the timetable). The timetable can be viewed at: https://www.southwesternrailway.com...etables/december-2023/ptt17-december-2023.pdf
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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The blue seats on the Class 458s that have them are a leftover from those unit's conversion from 458/0s - it is no longer First Class, hence the lack of signage now. This service (2145 Waterloo to Haslemere) is booked to be a Class 458 and as such there is a note in the timetable denoting it is Standard Class only (an 'S' at the top of the column in the timetable). The timetable can be viewed at: https://www.southwesternrailway.com...etables/december-2023/ptt17-december-2023.pdf
They were for a short time First Class as 458/5, like 2017-2019 ish they restored the head cushions and signage.
 

Flange Squeal

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They were for a short time First Class as 458/5, like 2017-2019 ish they restored the head cushions and signage.
It was from the December 2018 timetable change that First Class was discontinued on the Reading line, resulting in the subsequent declassification of the First Class area on 30 of the 36 Class 458/5 units (458531-536 of course being fully formed of ex-Class 460 vehicles and not fitted with First Class at conversion).
 

DelW

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I've occasionally caught that service from Guildford and been surprised when a 458 pulls in. I assume it goes ECS to Farnham afterwards. 458/0s weren't cleared south of Haslemere, so unless that was changed with the /5 conversion, that's as far as they can go on the Direct.
 

CarrotPie

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Southeastern 465s have a similar declassified first class section
Though only on the /9s. Their mainline Electrostars also have declassified FC (compartment behind the cab, separated from the saloon by a pair of doors). Many people still don't sit there, so it's a great place to go if you want some peace and quiet! The 377/5s even have longitudinal seating there!
 
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TT-ONR-NRN

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Though only on the /9s. Their mainline Electrostars also have declassified FC (compartment behind the cab, separated from the saloon by a pair of doors). Many people still don't sit there, so it's a great place to go if you want some peace and quiet! The 377/5s even have transverse seating there!
Do you mean longitudinal? Transverse is forwards and backwards isn’t it?
 
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