First South West (Kernow & Buses of Somerset)

[83G/84D]

The white Yutong used on Truro Park and Ride services recently is currently at Camborne.

 

[Goldfish62]

There's quite an influx of new vehicles currently into Leeds and Bristol. I wonder if this will provide Kernow's Geminis early in the new year.

 

[Whiteway215]

There's quite an influx of new vehicles currently into Leeds and Bristol. I wonder if this will provide Kernow's Geminis early in the new year.

The remaining Leeds Geminis that were used in the 2012 Olympics (362xx series) all seem to be heading to South Yorkshire.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

There's quite an influx of new vehicles currently into Leeds and Bristol. I wonder if this will provide Kernow's Geminis early in the new year.

Suspect the requirements of various LEZs will see them in various places rather than Kernow. Expect more of the late model B7TLs tbh

 

[richw]

The new tender contracts press release from council yesterday doesn’t give much away except mention of being new greener buses...

https://www.cornwall.gov.uk/council...s-contract-is-awarded-for-vital-bus-services/

Cornwall Council’s One Public Transport System for Cornwall came a step closer today as Cabinet (18 December 2019) agreed to secure a new 8 year contract to deliver a network of Council subsided local bus routes with reduced fares for passengers and more cleaner, greener buses.

Local bus services are a vital lifeline for our residents to be able to travel for work and education, for shopping and for leisure. The Council subsidises 73 bus routes to connect communities and as a viable alternative to taking the car. These bus routes would not otherwise be provided by bus operators as they are not commercially viable.

Awarding the contract is the next stage in the One Pubic Transport System for Cornwall project which is delivering upon its objectives to improve public transport and provide a seamless integrated public transport network for Cornwall.

Cornwall Council cabinet portfolio holder for transport Geoff Brown said:

“We know that good public transport is important to our residents. Our priority is to make sure that these routes are safeguarded and that passengers who use the bus routes subsidised by the Council get the best possible service. Many people rely on these bus routes for work, for getting to hospital appointments and to go out to see friends and family. Rest assured that they will continue and improve under this new contract.”

“When awarding the new 8 year contract for delivering the subsidised bus network from April 2020, we took into account how we can increase the use of lower emission vehicles and encourage more people to use public transport in line with our commitment to tackle the climate emergency. We also looked at ticket pricing, the possibilities around increasing the frequency of buses and the quality of the vehicles – all of which will play a part in encouraging residents to use public transport and move away from using cars.”

Geoff adds: “We’re also planning to introduce a 4 year pilot scheme to reduce fares and encourage more people to use buses. Earlier this year, the government awarded Cornwall a £23.5m funding package for a “Reduced Bus Fares” pilot to support the Council’s ongoing commitment to improving bus travel for residents. We’re planning to introduce a scheme in May 2020 which will significantly reduce the cost of bus travel by establishing town zones and capping the cost for making multiple journeys within these zones. Ultimately we want to deliver an integrated SMART ticketing system for bus, rail and ferry to make it as easy and convenient as possible for residents and visitors to use all forms of public transport.”

Cabinet members also agreed on which company will be offered the contract to operate the Truro Park and Ride for the next eight years from April 2020. They also agreed that the Council will look again at who will deliver some of the school bus services from April 2020.

For contractual legal reasons, the successful bidders can’t be announced until 10 days have passed following the notification of this decision to the successful bidder and the other companies who have tendered for the contracts.

Story posted 18 December 2019

 

[Accelerator59]

The new tender contracts press release from council yesterday doesn’t give much away except mention of being new greener buses...

https://www.cornwall.gov.uk/council...s-contract-is-awarded-for-vital-bus-services/

So with all this being said, is anything going to be done about the 47 routes in the evenings through Carharrack as it’s not helpful for residents who work in town and don’t drive, that there isn’t any service after 6pm?

 

[83G/84D]

I understand that more details will be released in the coming weeks,probably in January.

 

[AllanMacF]

I'm very late at thanking several contributors to this Forum back in September for letting me know where the best spot was to get photos of the stream of buses entering Truro College. Your advice was excellent - many thanks. My wife and I came down from Bristol by train on October 3rd, for three days, the first afternoon being devoted to the College "road show"! I recorded some 20+ First Kernow buses and coaches going in, of which, I was pleased to see, eleven were President-Tridents. I was well pleased and didn't even notice it was peeing with rain (!). Reflections of headlights on wet roads added to the photos! Three Presidents were still in Willowleaf (which I much prefer and it looked fine in the rain!), four Presidents were in Coasters/A5 colours, 33176 was a Vamooz o/ad, and 33181 was in Kernow green, with added poppies - were these newly added? At the same time, a Plaxton President was taking a Tinner's turn, as 33084 was on the T1! Green 33143 passed on the 87. Additionally, there were two East Lancs Vykings up from Helston for the College, 32756/760, and the first two Geminis that I've seen in Cornwall turned up, too, 37177/9, the former prepared with a black tail-end for advertising. All, doubtless, a pretty average set of buses for College work as far as you folks are concerned, but I don't mind admitting, exciting for me!
The next day, 33084 was on the T2 as we rode by the 87 to Newquay (in bright sun!) on 33312. Fresh Presidents here included 33147 ... with a black tail-end for Go Cornish - ah! That's what 37177 was prepared for! We returned to Truro by the 91 on 37179.
On Saturday, we rode 33479 on the U1 to Falmouth; lucky shot at Penryn Campus of 32097 on U4, even though I had to photograph it through the grubby back window of 33479! Cleaned the pic up on the computer, though. At The Moor, Tinner 33451 was out of area, lying-over; it later took up the U1. I was highly impressed by the interior decor of your MMCs - far more cheerful and welcoming than the First average! Well done, Kernow!
Finally, the one President that has ever escaped from Cornwall to live elsewhere (possibly!), 33165, has settled in well in Bristol with the other ten Presidents that we now have here. Looking good in Willowleaf, too!

 

[83G/84D]

Glad you had a good time Allan. Try coming down again in the spring if you can, when the mornings and evenings are a bit lighter. Makes photography a lot easier. There could be some new arrivals on College services by then.

 

[Goldfish62]

Suspect the requirements of various LEZs will see them in various places rather than Kernow. Expect more of the late model B7TLs tbh

Yes, to be clear what I meant was that these new buses would provide the planned cascade of older buses to Kernow.

 

[Goldfish62]

The new tender contracts press release from council yesterday doesn’t give much away except mention of being new greener buses...

https://www.cornwall.gov.uk/council...s-contract-is-awarded-for-vital-bus-services/

What's curious is that it refers to "contract" singular. I'm wondering whether this means that all the routes have been awarded in bulk to one operator. On the other it could just be poorly worded.

Bit odd that they're waiting until the standstill period ends before announcing the successful bidders. It's not a legal requirement to do so: TfL and DfT both announce awards "subject to standstill".

 

[Busaholic]

What's curious is that it refers to "contract" singular. I'm wondering whether this means that all the routes have been awarded in bulk to one operator. On the other it could just be poorly worded.

Bit odd that they're waiting until the standstill period ends before announcing the successful bidders. It's not a legal requirement to do so: TfL and DfT both announce awards "subject to standstill".

I did read a suggestion somewhere, can't remember where or how authoritative it was, that C.C. wanted to find one operator for all the routes. IF that is true, I can only see one possible operator.Strikes me as being very risky too; eight years is a very long time in bus years, and have CC not learned from the Western Greyhound fiasco? It could all end in tears, mainly among us council tax payers.

 

[richw]

Near enough the entire Summercourt travel bus fleet is on eBay at present. Suggested to me they may well have lost bus work. I believe all of their bus work is tenders

 

[Goldfish62]

Near enough the entire Summercourt travel bus fleet is on eBay at present. Suggested to me they may well have lost bus work. I believe all of their bus work is tenders

I can't see the council awarding contracts based on the majority of the existing fleet anyway, so it would need to go regardless.

 

[richw]

I can't see the council awarding contracts based on the majority of the existing fleet anyway, so it would need to go regardless.

especially where it mentions greener cleaner vehicles.

I maybe misinterpreting it, but the way it’s written implies one operator has taken the lot, as singular words are used rather than plural when mentioning A operator.

 

[83G/84D]

Solo 53040 arrived at Camborne depot today.

 

[Accelerator59]

Near enough the entire Summercourt travel bus fleet is on eBay at present. Suggested to me they may well have lost bus work. I believe all of their bus work is tenders

I saw Regal Busways Enviro 200 651 earlier just outside Treliske with reg RIL 3157 and having looked it up, it’s formerly SN10 CAU. Would this have anything to do with Travel Cornwall?

 

[richw]

I saw Regal Busways Enviro 200 651 earlier just outside Treliske with reg RIL 3157 and having looked it up, it’s formerly SN10 CAU. Would this have anything to do with Travel Cornwall?

it’s been in their yard for several months

 

[Goldfish62]

especially where it mentions greener cleaner vehicles.

I maybe misinterpreting it, but the way it’s written implies one operator has taken the lot, as singular words are used rather than plural when mentioning A operator.

Yes, the wording instantly struck me as well. However it also wouldn't surprise me if it was simply a poorly written press release.

 

[Goldfish62]

Yes, the wording instantly struck me as well. However it also wouldn't surprise me if it was simply a poorly written press release.

Right, having had a look at the cabinet meeting papers it does indeed appear that all routes have gone to one operator, who has also picked up 71 of the school routes.

The award is based on Euro 5 and 6 buses only and features some service improvements.

It can surely be only one of two operators, either of which would probably require outstations in the parts of the county that they don't currently serve.

 

[cnjb8]

Right, having had a look at the cabinet meeting papers it does indeed appear that all routes have gone to one operator, who has also picked up 71 of the school routes.

The award is based on Euro 5 and 6 buses only and features some service improvements.

It can surely be only one of two operators, either of which would probably require outstations in the parts of the county that they don't currently serve.

I can see it being a First or GoAhead win. But can First provide Euro 5 or 6 buses to Kernow, maybe GoAhead could. Also, First is predominantly Kernow whereas GoAhead is just Plymouth a one or two routes in Cornwall. Why didn't they split the contracts to suit operators and therefore passengers?

 

[Goldfish62]

I can see it being a First or GoAhead win. But can First provide Euro 5 or 6 buses to Kernow, maybe GoAhead could. Also, First is predominantly Kernow whereas GoAhead is just Plymouth a one or two routes in Cornwall. Why didn't they split the contracts to suit operators and therefore passengers?

Public sector tenders have to be evaluated on the principle of "the most economically advantageous tender", ie best value for money. This has to stand up to potential legal challenge. Packaging together multiple bids can achieve big cost savings. It is therefore possible that the successful bidder was extremely ambitious and effectively made the council an offer they couldn't refuse.

 

[cnjb8]

Public sector tenders have to be evaluated on the principle of "the most economically advantageous tender", ie best value for money. This has to stand up to potential legal challenge. Packaging together multiple bids can achieve big cost savings. It is therefore possible that the successful bidder was extremely ambitious and effectively made the council an offer they couldn't refuse.

Yes that makes sense.

 

[Accelerator59]

it’s been in their yard for several months

First time I’ve seen it.

 

[richw]

probably require outstations

I believe citybus are possibly on notice to leave liskeard outstation. All the other businesses in that industrial estate have been given notice to leave as the land is earmarked for housing development. They are now using Morrisons for driver breaks and driver changes rather than the outstation. It’s down to just a parking area from what I can gather.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Public sector tenders have to be evaluated on the principle of "the most economically advantageous tender", ie best value for money. This has to stand up to potential legal challenge. Packaging together multiple bids can achieve big cost savings. It is therefore possible that the successful bidder was extremely ambitious and effectively made the council an offer they couldn't refuse.

Indeed, that’s spot on and they will usually have a technical (quality) score and a commercial (cost) scoring system. However, they will have the ability to discount low price tenders that aren’t deliverable.

Placing the requirement as one single package will extract economies of scale and help the procurement process. As you say, such a process and standstill period is to avoid any legal challenges.

I wouldn’t discount Stagecoach in this though, I confess, I don’t know which parties tendered. This is sometimes declared but take it not in this case?

 

[ChrisPJ]

There’s no way it’s not going to be First winning the contract. Surely?!

 

[Goldfish62]

There’s no way it’s not going to be First winning the contract. Surely?!

Why no way, given the council's relationship with First and the investment they've funded? Who's it going to be otherwise? Can only be GoAhead, or at a stretch Stagecoach who have the readily available resources.

 

[Busaholic]

There’s no way it’s not going to be First winning the contract. Surely?!

I would not bet against it, whatever the odds. Actually, I'd be amazed if it wasn't First. They do, of course, have a track record of overbidding and then walking away from their contracted terms a couple of years before their due end, saving themselves a hell of a lot of money. I'm talking train franchises, of course, but leopards and spots comes to mind. Also, First and Cornwall Council already seem to have a mighty cosy relationship.

 

[Goldfish62]

I would not bet against it, whatever the odds. Actually, I'd be amazed if it wasn't First. They do, of course, have a track record of overbidding and then walking away from their contracted terms a couple of years before their due end, saving themselves a hell of a lot of money. I'm talking train franchises, of course, but leopards and spots comes to mind. Also, First and Cornwall Council already seem to have a mighty cosy relationship.

I agree.