First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[TheGrandWazoo]

Interesting about 319 and 73. Wonder why it's taken them so long to renumber 319.

Because Wessex have a service 19 out of UWE but have now decided to risk the potential confusion anyway

 

[Private Baxter]

A renumbering of 319 has been expected for some time, with number 19 being both sensible and logical, only problem is Wessex's 19 kind of gets in the way too, as GW says. I was thinking 80 might also have worked, but appreciate they want to minimize the confusion when changing route numbers, and dropping the 3 was the easiest solution.

 

[Colly405]

It is just at UWE that there could be confusion, as there are no other common stops (they take different routes between UWE and the ring road).

Still silly...

 

[ValleyLines142]

I would have renumbered it 83.

I don't think it'll cause THAT much confusion, as they are different operators and Wessex have a 1 as well as First running on exactly the same route!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I would have renumbered it 83.

I don't think it'll cause THAT much confusion, as they are different operators and Wessex have a 1 as well as First running on exactly the same route!

Hopefully not but some people can be a bit dumb. The competing 1 is designed to trade on that confusion!

Not as silly as when First had two 1s until they changed the Bristol to Weston to W1.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Hopefully not but some people can be a bit dumb. The competing 1 is designed to trade on that confusion!

Not as silly as when First had two 1s until they changed the Bristol to Weston to W1.

Yes, that was really crazy! Especially as they both stopped at the Centre, and had either Bristol or Broomhill on them and when looking at a quick glance they look the same! (only the 'oomh' and the 'stol' being different!)

 

[carlberry]

The changes affecting S Glos have been entered on the council website. Summary...

Service 19
Service 319 has been renumbered as the 19, this service is following the same route and frequency as the 319. The service has extended its evening journeys on all days of operation to cover the 37 journeys that have been removed and gives passengers of Bath and Bitton access to Kingswood and Downend later than before. This service will also have a new Sunday and Bank Holiday service running at an hourly frequency.

Another pointless renumbering by First, and two different 19s in Bristol!

 

[freetoview33]

reduction in 73 is just to try and promote X74 more and I guess in preparation for metrobus (so they can say it is an improvement, even though it is just putting it back to how it's been for years previous)

319 to 19 I guess is getting back at Wessex for 1 and 2. Does seem like these changes will reduce Wessex's fleet needs again!

 

[stait.john]

Service 231 will be withdrawn from 24 April although Wiltshire CC X31 journeys will continue. This is to allow frequency Improvements to Bath services 5, 10 & 13. C10 also withdrawn.

Bristol 5 moves to become a Marlborough Street service with the A2 altered to run WSM to Bristol Airport only. Services X2/X3 will be operated by Weston.

70/71 reduced to x20 each for the summer period. 36/50/51 withdrawn between South Bristol Hospital and Hengrove Depot with driver changes on these routes now taking place in the Centre.

42 reduced to x30 mins but 43 increased to x15, new 42A is short 42 Kingswood to Centre to provide 8bph on that section.

That's all from 24 April.

John
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Additionally a number of E400MMCs are on order (with Stop Start technology) are on order for Bath Uni services, which will replace the bendy buses which in turn will replace the B7TLs on the peak services. The 7 B7TLs are to be retired apparently.

I'm unsure if they'll be offered for cascade as they are 17 years old and not DDA, but are bloody nice to drive!!!!!

In addition to the service changes I posted earlier, the 43 will terminate at Cadbury Heath again rather than Bitton.

John

 

[Private Baxter]

Another pointless renumbering by First, and two different 19s in Bristol!

I'd say it's kind of logical, as it sort of fits in with other services in that area. 319 now just seems a bit out of place.

Service 231 will be withdrawn from 24 April although Wiltshire CC X31 journeys will continue. This is to allow frequency Improvements to Bath services 5, 10 & 13. C10 also withdrawn.

Bristol 5 moves to become a Marlborough Street service with the A2 altered to run WSM to Bristol Airport only. Services X2/X3 will be operated by Weston.

70/71 reduced to x20 each for the summer period. 36/50/51 withdrawn between South Bristol Hospital and Hengrove Depot with driver changes on these routes now taking place in the Centre.

42 reduced to x30 mins but 43 increased to x15, new 42A is short 42 Kingswood to Centre to provide 8bph on that section.

That's all from 24 April.

John
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Additionally a number of E400MMCs are on order (with Stop Start technology) are on order for Bath Uni services, which will replace the bendy buses which in turn will replace the B7TLs on the peak services. The 7 B7TLs are to be retired apparently.

I'm unsure if they'll be offered for cascade as they are 17 years old and not DDA, but are bloody nice to drive!!!!!

In addition to the service changes I posted earlier, the 43 will terminate at Cadbury Heath again rather than Bitton.

John

Hi John, good to hear from you again, and thanks for keeping us updated.
I can't say much of this news is welcome however. I find it hard to believe that a fairly strong route, i.e. 231 is being withdrawn to increase frequency on some local routes. Another example of First having lost interest in that part of Wiltshire and happy to let Faresaver take it all. I suspect as THarries suggested, driver shortages are a factor here. I used to be a regular user of this service and was always well used. Don't forget it covers areas the X31 doesn't.

Disappointing also to read about the cutting of the A2, though after the Portishead section has been reduced to a skeleton service anyway, this hardly comes as a surprise. Shame there will now be no link from Nailsea to Portishead or Clevedon.

And to compensate they move the X2/X3 to Weston. They did this for a short while back in 2011 (when it was 357/358/359) but soon went back to MH. I suppose this means MH will be losing their newest and arguably some of their best buses to WM.

Even HE don't seem to have fared too well with these sets of changes. But at least BH are supposedly getting some new stuff for their U1, which would be very welcome! Speaking of which, Steve White says that a couple of the oldest ones have moved back to LH and are plain purple.

 

[freetoview33]

Service 231 will be withdrawn from 24 April although Wiltshire CC X31 journeys will continue. This is to allow frequency Improvements to Bath services 5, 10 & 13. C10 also withdrawn.

Bristol 5 moves to become a Marlborough Street service with the A2 altered to run WSM to Bristol Airport only. Services X2/X3 will be operated by Weston.

70/71 reduced to x20 each for the summer period. 36/50/51 withdrawn between South Bristol Hospital and Hengrove Depot with driver changes on these routes now taking place in the Centre.

42 reduced to x30 mins but 43 increased to x15, new 42A is short 42 Kingswood to Centre to provide 8bph on that section.

That's all from 24 April.

John
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Additionally a number of E400MMCs are on order (with Stop Start technology) are on order for Bath Uni services, which will replace the bendy buses which in turn will replace the B7TLs on the peak services. The 7 B7TLs are to be retired apparently.

I'm unsure if they'll be offered for cascade as they are 17 years old and not DDA, but are bloody nice to drive!!!!!

In addition to the service changes I posted earlier, the 43 will terminate at Cadbury Heath again rather than Bitton.

John

Thank you John, you are still useful even though you have moved! Hope everything is going well for you!

 

[THarris123]

Service 231 will be withdrawn from 24 April although Wiltshire CC X31 journeys will continue. This is to allow frequency Improvements to Bath services 5, 10 & 13. C10 also withdrawn.

Bristol 5 moves to become a Marlborough Street service with the A2 altered to run WSM to Bristol Airport only. Services X2/X3 will be operated by Weston.

70/71 reduced to x20 each for the summer period. 36/50/51 withdrawn between South Bristol Hospital and Hengrove Depot with driver changes on these routes now taking place in the Centre.

42 reduced to x30 mins but 43 increased to x15, new 42A is short 42 Kingswood to Centre to provide 8bph on that section.

That's all from 24 April.

John
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Additionally a number of E400MMCs are on order (with Stop Start technology) are on order for Bath Uni services, which will replace the bendy buses which in turn will replace the B7TLs on the peak services. The 7 B7TLs are to be retired apparently.

I'm unsure if they'll be offered for cascade as they are 17 years old and not DDA, but are bloody nice to drive!!!!!

In addition to the service changes I posted earlier, the 43 will terminate at Cadbury Heath again rather than Bitton.

John

No no no. Tom doesn't like that one bit - why did you have to come back anyway

In all seriousness thank you for telling us what's going on John. I'm surprised about 231 going, but at the same point not really surprised. Driver shortages, cuts from Wiltshire and hardly any services left in Wiltshire contribute a lot I guess.

Will we see any new buses for Bath 5 I wonder?

Do we know where the Bendies are going?

Shocked about A2 and X2/3. How are Weston supposed to operate X2/3? Serious lacks in funding I guess.

John have you heard anything about 54?

 

[Private Baxter]

No no no. Tom doesn't like that one bit - why did you have to come back anyway

In all seriousness thank you for telling us what's going on John. I'm surprised about 231 going, but at the same point not really surprised. Driver shortages, cuts from Wiltshire and hardly any services left in Wiltshire contribute a lot I guess.

Will we see any new buses for Bath 5 I wonder?

Do we know where the Bendies are going?

Shocked about A2 and X2/3. How are Weston supposed to operate X2/3? Serious lacks in funding I guess.

John have you heard anything about 54?

WM have managed the Portishead services before, but don't know how they did it. I can only assume buses will run empty to Portishead, before working an X2. Might this also suggest the other 126 board goes to WS?

It seems they want to move most inter-urban work out of Bristol, and merge MH with LH, whereby they focus on city routes, and a few express routes to nearby towns out of Bristol such as Yate. The exception I suppose is X7. (And even that is mostly done from an outstation).

At a guess (and possibly my third attempt at predicting the 54, so please don't pay too much attention) but maybe the new 54 might have something to do with the other routes being cut at South Bristol Community Hospital.

 

[THarris123]

A few timetables have appeared on Traveline under Timetable Lookup.

5 - increased to every 10 mins (at last)
10 - looks like timetable changes to improve reliability
13 - increased to every 12 mins
A2 - as well as being cut back to Airport-Weston, hours of service being cut back too - ashame really
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I'm personally annoyed at First for continuing to cut services and withdraw from areas. I thought Mr Freeman and Mr Sherrington were going to changes things and improve things, but i'm obviously wrong.

I can guarantee a lot of complaints from A2 passengers and 231 passengers.

 

[Private Baxter]

A few timetables have appeared on Traveline under Timetable Lookup.

5 - increased to every 10 mins (at last)
10 - looks like timetable changes to improve reliability
13 - increased to every 12 mins
A2 - as well as being cut back to Airport-Weston, hours of service being cut back too - ashame really
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I'm personally annoyed at First for continuing to cut services and withdraw from areas. I thought Mr Freeman and Mr Sherrington were going to changes things and improve things, but i'm obviously wrong.

I can guarantee a lot of complaints from A2 passengers and 231 passengers.

I fear you may be right about complaints, though I don't know how many actually use that northern section of the A2. But again, scrapping the 231 to increase the frequency of the 13 from fifteen mins to twelve?! And I thought the 5 was already every ten minutes.

Oh and with the cutting of the A2, and increasing of the 13, guess what that might mean for our favourite e200s!!!

 

[Whiteway215]

The Bath Chronicle news website carries an article on the Bath service changes from April 24th.
One interesting comment is about the 10 'which will have bigger buses all the week.'

Does this mean a change from the Solos?

 

[swifty]

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Additionally a number of E400MMCs are on order (with Stop Start technology) are on order for Bath Uni services, which will replace the bendy buses which in turn will replace the B7TLs on the peak services. The 7 B7TLs are to be retired apparently.

I'm unsure if they'll be offered for cascade as they are 17 years old and not DDA, but are bloody nice to drive!!!!!

In addition to the service changes I posted earlier, the 43 will terminate at Cadbury Heath again rather than Bitton.

John

Interesting, 32002 was on the 7 in Bristol this evening in unbranded plain purple.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'd say it's kind of logical, as it sort of fits in with other services in that area. 319 now just seems a bit out of place.

It was always going to be the most logical solution to drop the 3, brings it back in line with when the 19/19A ran that corridor back when the routes first launched. Also brings it in line with the present day 17/17A and 18 that's it shares common sections of route with.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

First West of England Announce Service Changes for Bath

Bus operator First West of England will be making a number of enhancements and alterations to its services in and around Bath on 24 April 2016.

In particular the frequency of the trunk service 13 which connects Bathford and Batheaston with the city centre along the London Road and continuing via Bear Flat to Foxhill will be increased during the daytime from every 15 minutes to every 12 minutes with a more frequent evening service as well. This improvement follows an increase in frequency last year which encouraged a lot of new users to the 13 route and will be welcomed by bus users in Bathford and Batheaston as well as Foxhill.

Equally the popular and busy 5 route from the city centre to Twerton and Whiteway will get more buses during the day - with bigger buses running more frequently in the evenings and on Sundays, while the well-used 10 route from the city centre to Oldfield Park and Southdown will get bigger buses all week and an increased frequency to every 20 minutes on Sunday.

On the other hand the 231 service from Bath to Corsham and Chippenham will be withdrawn from the same date.

Andrew Sherrington, General Manager for Bath said: “At the moment there are simply too many buses running along the corridor between Bath and Chippenham. At present there are four buses an hour between these points provided by two separate operators, as well as a fast train service. As a result we do not take enough passengers to cover the costs of operating this service. Customers will still have a half-hourly service, provided by another operator. We did not take this decision lightly, however we cannot operate services that run at a loss.”

He continued: “Our commercial bus services are funded by the money collected in fares from our customers. All bus operators are strictly forbidden from cross-subsidisation - that is using the profits used on busy bus services to fund those that are less used less used.”

More details of the changed services will be released next week.

http://www.firstgroup.com/bristol-b...st-west-england-announce-service-changes-bath

At the end of the day FSA is loss making so tough decisions have to be made such as the 231, and as sad as it is that another slice of Wiltshire work is going, it's a step on the right direction.

 

[THarris123]

I fear you may be right about complaints, though I don't know how many actually use that northern section of the A2. But again, scrapping the 231 to increase the frequency of the 13 from fifteen mins to twelve?! And I thought the 5 was already every ten minutes.

Oh and with the cutting of the A2, and increasing of the 13, guess what that might mean for our favourite e200s!!!

That's my fear - Weston will lose 2 E200s, but gain 8 Streetlites (means type training). They gain 6 boards - that's ridiculous. I think 126 will move to Wells from that, so we might see a couple of B7s head to Wells or maybe worse 2 E200s.

Bath lose 6 vehicles from 231, but gain 1 on 5, 1 on 13 and I suspect another for 10. Think the 2 B10s will head to BoS, then Bath may get one or 2 E200s back. I really can't see B7s on 10 on a regular basis, maybe Streetlites? Then some solos will probably move to Kernow and a couple of other places.

It'll be most interesting to see what happens in Bristol and Wells. I assume 47559-62 will be painted green for 5, then 36 ends up with deckers completely and a few Darts move elsewhere. Wells should be interesting as we don't know what's happening yet, nor do we know what will end up on 161 - if the solo keeps breaking down, what's the replacement? If Wells get 29 or some other service, solos are likely to be sent down from Bath displaced from whatever 10 gets to be used and one for 161.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Still think it's ashame about 231 and i still can't believe WoE are making losses.

 

[vicbury]

I fear you may be right about complaints, though I don't know how many actually use that northern section of the A2. But again, scrapping the 231 to increase the frequency of the 13 from fifteen mins to twelve?! And I thought the 5 was already every ten minutes.

Oh and with the cutting of the A2, and increasing of the 13, guess what that might mean for our favourite e200s!!!

Oh no! Maybe as the 10 is promised bigger buses they will go there! As long as they stay away from the west of Bath

 

[Whiteway215]

That's my fear - Weston will lose 2 E200s, but gain 8 Streetlites (means type training). They gain 6 boards - that's ridiculous. I think 126 will move to Wells from that, so we might see a couple of B7s head to Wells or maybe worse 2 E200s.

Bath lose 6 vehicles from 231, but gain 1 on 5, 1 on 13 and I suspect another for 10. Think the 2 B10s will head to BoS, then Bath may get one or 2 E200s back. I really can't see B7s on 10 on a regular basis, maybe Streetlites? Then some solos will probably move to Kernow and a couple of other places.

It'll be most interesting to see what happens in Bristol and Wells. I assume 47559-62 will be painted green for 5, then 36 ends up with deckers completely and a few Darts move elsewhere. Wells should be interesting as we don't know what's happening yet, nor do we know what will end up on 161 - if the solo keeps breaking down, what's the replacement? If Wells get 29 or some other service, solos are likely to be sent down from Bath displaced from whatever 10 gets to be used and one for 161.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Still think it's ashame about 231 and i still can't believe WoE are making losses.

Is the PVR of the 231 as many as 6?

 

[Colly405]

Services X2/X3 will be operated by Weston.
John

Which explains why many early morning journeys will start at Sheepway rather than Bristol Bus Station. And evening ones terminate there...

 

[stait.john]

I would've thought the current Darts on the 5 would stay on there and be treated to the new style livery with green front?

Full size buses on the Bath 5 with Darts replacing Solos on the 10.

No mention of the 54.

John

 

[DaveHarries]

Which explains why many early morning journeys will start at Sheepway rather than Bristol Bus Station. And evening ones terminate there...

The new X2 / X3 timetable is on Traveline. Interestingly the late-night journeys will, it seems, now operate on Sundays and Bank Holidays too which they don't at present.

Dave

 

[ValleyLines142]

I would've thought the current Darts on the 5 would stay on there and be treated to the new style livery with green front?

Agreed. 47559-47566 will probably remain for the 18.

 

[THarris123]

I would've thought the current Darts on the 5 would stay on there and be treated to the new style livery with green front?

Full size buses on the Bath 5 with Darts replacing Solos on the 10.

No mention of the 54.

John

Thanks John. There are already the 02 reg B7Ls on 5, so I assume they'll remain on there, but on Sundays too?

Assuming the darts are being displaced from 14, which might get new Streetlites.

 

[ValleyLines142]

With the X2/X3, will the Streetlites get transferred to Weston, or will they stay at Marlborough Street? If so, we may see unusual workings of Streetlites on the 7 or even the X1/W1/X6!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Crikey - what a lot of stuff written. Let's get the knowns and unknowns sorted...

Wiltshire - There won't be a massive reaction to the 231 going because, quite simply, Faresaver are running on that service. They'll need to re-route via Hungerdown but TBH, they'll need to do that as some journeys will probably need deckers (so expect some more ex London stuff to appear at Bumpers Farm). The 231 is five vehicles. A sixth vehicle is spare from the 10 being massively scaled back by Wiltshire Council.

However, First need (as I said the other week) to stop faffing around with a mix of newish Streetlites and aged B7s on the 265/7/72 and reallocate some of the 59 plates from Wells to Westbury. Seems ridiculous to have modern, quality vehicles like those poodling around for 5 pensioners and the odd mother and buggie on stuff like the 375 and 161 whilst the Westbury routes have 54 plates on them.

Bath - the 5 is every 12 mins and aside from the odd journey around 5-ish, it doesn't seem to need upping to 10 mins. The 10 going to Darts makes sense though a bit odd with the frequency being upped too. I suspect the Darts will possibly involve the ones at HE in white and/or a couple dislodged from the 72? The 14 will remain Darts for the time being

Intriguing to see the 13 getting a lift too. Will this spell the end of the B10BLEs in Bath? Probably not - the vehicles saved from 231 going are being absorbed by these increases and remember that the 3 Solars at Westbury are due to return to Weymouth.

What really makes sense is the U1 changes. Pleasantly surprised that new fleet is going there, and the use of B7LAs only in the peak means a lot lower running cost during the day (fuel consumption = gallons per mile!!)

Where the Solos that are freed up from this will go, who knows. I don't think Kernow is that likely - just a feeling. Might even send some to Weston and get rid of some of the e200s there....or is that wishful thinking!

Bristol - the 5 is being extended but the frequency widened. Ok, but seems an odd one to get branded! Still, what the hell and that service will be 06 Darts. Darts on the 36 with the odd ageing decker will be my bet. The Streetlites will continue on the 18 - the 5 just isn't lucrative enough to get them.

My hunch is that all these savings (along with turning the 36/50/51 short) will result in some of the older non DDA deckers going.

North Somerset - The real surprise is the reallocation of the X2/X3 to Weston, but guess it's reflective of the staffing challenges in Bristol. You begin to wonder if a resurrection of the old Clevedon outstation might not be a bad idea (joke!!). I'd expect the Streetlites to transfer across - no reason why they wouldn't and every reason why they would. More intriguingly, wonder how the breaks will be worked in.... perhaps some journeys will be worked by an MH driver or two to create a rolling break? Be interesting to know.

However, the truncation of the A2 at the airport was really to be expected. Glad I did it in December but in truth, I had the bus largely to myself to Nailsea from the airport. However, should also be noted that usually at least one board on the A2 is a B7RLE and sometimes two so hence why e200s aren't likely to head to Bath - a victory for Vicbury!! (Bedum tish)

Wells - Despite the fevered imagination of some drivers, I really don't see much happening here other than potentially the one remaining 126 board moving to WS. Just don't see the 29 moving (despite it logistically being better suited by being run from the north) and arguably, the only reason the 375 keeps going is the college runs and to starve WB of a free run on that route and deprive them of revenue.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Thank you John, you are still useful even though you have moved! Hope everything is going well for you!

Seconded from me - hope the move has worked out well.

 

[freetoview33]

from first website

All bus operators are strictly forbidden from cross-subsidisation - that is using the profits used on busy bus services to fund those that are less used less used

 

[THarris123]

from first website

All bus operators are strictly forbidden from cross-subsidisation - that is using the profits used on busy bus services to fund those that are less used less used

Well that's a great idea. That's the way to ensure commuters from rural areas get worse public transport services than urban areas. Stupid idea.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Well that's a great idea. That's the way to ensure commuters from rural areas get worse public transport services than urban areas. Stupid idea.

It's competition law (not just buses) - it is basically to stop businesses from abusing their position.