First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[CD]

8 ex FK B7RLEs have made it to Taunton so far:
69209/19/20/23/25/26/27/28.
Friday two 69220/23 were on the 54/77/29 circuit.


I saw the registrations for Yeovil Thursday evening. Have heard rumours about the changes but Im afraid we will have to wait for the facts. :grin:

 

[THarris123]

8 ex FK B7RLEs have made it to Taunton so far:
69209/19/20/23/25/26/27/28.
Friday two 69220/23 were on the 54/77/29 circuit.


I saw the registrations for Yeovil Thursday evening. Have heard rumours about the changes but Im afraid we will have to wait for the facts. :grin:

Have any of the B7s gone to Bildgwater? Has anything been withdrawn since their arrival?
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Why are B7s used on 77? I travelled from Centre to Thornbury last Saturday with 66730 and for the amount of passengers that use it and the tight bends, surely a dart or E200 would be better?

 

[JamesGoldsmith]

Steve White says 32005 has been withdrawn and sold. Maybe we'll see the end of nearly all the W reg B7TLs in Bristol. Maybe a couple kept for 20 in Weston, but the rest withdrawn?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/29197902@N06/31328352423/

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Have any of the B7s gone to Bildgwater? Has anything been withdrawn since their arrival?
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Why are B7s used on 77? I travelled from Centre to Thornbury last Saturday with 66730 and for the amount of passengers that use it and the tight bends, surely a dart or E200 would be better?

The 77 uses B7s not for capacity but for depreciation reasons - they're usually B7Ls.

 

[ooo]

https://www.firstgroup.com/about-us...-invests-£750k-brand-new-severn-express-buses

Steve White's picture

 

[THarris123]

The 77 uses B7s not for capacity but for depreciation reasons - they're usually B7Ls.

Yes but there are darts around of the same age.
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45114 on 77

 

[carlberry]

Anyone know if the E400s will be on X7 on Sunday?

I can guarantee that two of the previous generation wont as, having given up all the M4 motorway work this week, this morning they were off up the M5. (To Yorkshire according to Steev White). No need for months of storage at Muller Road for replaced deckers at the moment!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yes but there are darts around of the same age.
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45114 on 77

The 2002 vintage B7Ls are the usual fayre though 2005/6 Darts did feature at times. With the move of 42895 etc to Bath, the use of B7Ls became commonplace.

Just enjoyed 39005 on the Odd Down P&R. First time I've had it on there - seemed to climb Wells Road

 

[THarris123]

The 2002 vintage B7Ls are the usual fayre though 2005/6 Darts did feature at times. With the move of 42895 etc to Bath, the use of B7Ls became commonplace.

Just enjoyed 39005 on the Odd Down P&R. First time I've had it on there - seemed to climb Wells Road

Think it might be the first time I know of. They've been very cautious of putting it on 41 ever since it's arrival mainly due to the hill. Really it can't do any worse than the E400Hs.
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39005 still out on 41
normal E400 (33685/750) on 21
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42956 1
66727 5
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What do we reckon - brand new Streetlites or E200MMCs for 3/4/5 in Bath?
I also think we might see some cascaded newer solos for 2/6/7/8

 

[DaveHarries]

What do we reckon - brand new Streetlites or E200MMCs for 3/4/5 in Bath?
I also think we might see some cascaded newer solos for 2/6/7/8

I don't think StreetLites would work well on those routes due to the hills. If I had a say it would be Enviro200 MMCs for the 3, 4 & 5 in Bath.

Dave

 

[THarris123]

I don't think StreetLites would work well on those routes due to the hills. If I had a say it would be Enviro200 MMCs for the 3, 4 & 5 in Bath.

Dave

Will they even order Streetlites in the group?

 

[NorthernSpirit]

I can guarantee that two of the previous generation wont as, having given up all the M4 motorway work this week, this morning they were off up the M5. (To Yorkshire according to Steve White). No need for months of storage at Muller Road for replaced deckers at the moment!

If its true that they are heading to Yorkshire then the E400's are likley to end up in Leeds, I'd be very suprised to see them in Huddersfield or even Halifax replacing the ALX400's / Tridents which were cascaded from Leeds.

 

[THarris123]

If its true that they are heading to Yorkshire then the E400's are likley to end up in Leeds, I'd be very suprised to see them in Huddersfield or even Halifax replacing the ALX400's / Tridents which were cascaded from Leeds.

What E400s?
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Anyone know why Weston Super Mare is advertised as "fancy a great day out for £5.30" on the U5 buses? To get to Weston you'd either have to swap at Bristol (might as well catch the train) or Wells. Can't see any young person doing that. Unless they're planning a Bath-Weston service?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I don't think StreetLites would work well on those routes due to the hills. If I had a say it would be Enviro200 MMCs for the 3, 4 & 5 in Bath.

Dave

How many new single deckers would that be for 3, 4 and 5?

 

[Whiteway215]

If its true that they are heading to Yorkshire then the E400's are likley to end up in Leeds, I'd be very suprised to see them in Huddersfield or even Halifax replacing the ALX400's / Tridents which were cascaded from Leeds.

The Travel West Yorkshire Forum states 32684/5 are expected at Hunslet Park Depot which I believe is Leeds.

 

[THarris123]

How many new single deckers would that be for 3, 4 and 5?

Probably 11 for 4, 9 for 3 and 6 for 5.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Probably 11 for 4, 9 for 3 and 6 for 5.

Question how likely there'll be 26+ new single deckers especially with a number of DD routes that might justify new vehicles (e.g. 42 to 45).

 

[THarris123]

Question how likely there'll be 26+ new single deckers especially with a number of DD routes that might justify new vehicles (e.g. 42 to 45).

Answer not very likely I admit, but I'm expecting something at least for 4 and 5. Do you really think they're going to keep old darts on 4 and B7Ls on 5? Could get some cascaded I guess. Maybe some of the 7900Hs from the East or Slough?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Answer not very likely I admit, but I'm expecting something at least for 4 and 5. Do you really think they're going to keep old darts on 4 and B7Ls on 5? Could get some cascaded I guess. Maybe some of the 7900Hs from the East or Slough?

No - my prediction was for cascaded Streetlites for the 4 (could be ex Bristol?). The 5 - guessing on B7RLEs.

 

[THarris123]

No - my prediction was for cascaded Streetlites for the 4 (could be ex Bristol?). The 5 - guessing on B7RLEs.

Well we'll have to wait and see.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Well we'll have to wait and see.

Indeed - just think the older stuff has to go somewhere (and it can't all go to FSW and nor should it).

 

[Bristol_Buses]

Im predicting to see new buses on the 42-45 and X39 this year, Probably E400MMCs as I doubt they will be getting any more Streetdeckers. Maybe they will try E400 City deckers? Then i assume the B9s will go on the 3,4,6,7. Maybe even the 78/79 can then become double deck. If there is a need for single deckers to replace the b7s i would like to see E200MMCs.

What time of year do first reveal their orders?

 

[Private Baxter]

What do we reckon - brand new Streetlites or E200MMCs for 3/4/5 in Bath?
I also think we might see some cascaded newer solos for 2/6/7/8

Sorry but I really think that none of those services will receive anything new this year, cascaded or otherwise. The 3 doesn't need it, its current fleet (well the majority of it) is only four years old, and fine for the job. I don't think it would be seen as a priority. As for the 4, whilst I agree that the darts are getting on a bit, they are, in my opinion, perfectly suitable for the job and most perform well. The only thing which might tempt First to invest in new buses for the 4 is the recent introduction of the 14 from Wessex, but otherwise the darts are fine. And the 5 won't either. I believe it had a very slight upgrade recently when the 54/05/55 reg B7RLEs took over, though I understand the older 02 reg B7s still appear fairly often so that at least be addressed. There may well be a business case for newer stock on the 5 (as has been hinted at several times over the last couple of years) but I think the current arrangement will stay in place a while longer, with perhaps a few tweeks.

However, whilst I do not anticipate new stock on either service, I do think that unlike other depots, they will invest in the current fleet this year. That is to say I think most the buses will be painted, refurbished inside and route branding applied, so they will look a lot better.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

What E400s?

I've realised that I mis-read Carlberry's post regarding the transfer of some of the fleet to Yorkshire. I'll have to keep an eye out on seeing any mis-matched fleet floating around.
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The Travel West Yorkshire Forum states 32684/5 are expected at Hunslet Park Depot which I believe is Leeds.

It certainly is, the other depot is at Bramley which is in the west of Leeds.

 

[pompeyfan]

An observation from someone I know that uses the First Solent E200MMCs, apparently even though they don't suffer from the same negatives as a streetlite, they, much like the steeetlies, are mapped much more towards economy than performance, even though the demonstrators went like brown stuff off a shovel. There's a bridge with a set of traffic lights on, and they don't like this hill start.

 

[baza585]

I don't think StreetLites would work well on those routes due to the hills. If I had a say it would be Enviro200 MMCs for the 3, 4 & 5 in Bath.

Dave

I would be interested in your basis for your assertion.

Have you travelled on Euro 6 Streetlites OR E20D MMCs?

Down here in FHD land we have both operating from the same depot (Hoeford).

Whilst it is fair to say the drivers prefer the ADL product (possibly due to the fierce retarder on the Streetlites), the Merc engined Streetlites appear to have more grunt than the E20DMMCs, and cope with hills rather better than the E20Ds, that struggle from a standing start on quite modest inclines.

Like all Euro6 engines, they are mapped for economy and to minimise emissions, and maybe the engine mapping settings would need to be tweaked for Bath, but the ADLs we have certainly wouldn't cope with Bath's hills whereas the Streetlites might. That said, given the reliability issues with the Euro 6 Streetlites, I am unconvinced First will buy them in any quantity in future until reliability is shown to be improved.

I'm also not sure why Bath would justify investment in new vehicles except possibly for the X39 anyway! Last published figures FSA (as it then was) was lossmaking.

 

[THarris123]

I would be interested in your basis for your assertion.

Have you travelled on Euro 6 Streetlites OR E20D MMCs?

Down here in FHD land we have both operating from the same depot (Hoeford).

Whilst it is fair to say the drivers prefer the ADL product (possibly due to the fierce retarder on the Streetlites), the Merc engined Streetlites appear to have more grunt than the E20DMMCs, and cope with hills rather better than the E20Ds, that struggle from a standing start on quite modest inclines.

Like all Euro6 engines, they are mapped for economy and to minimise emissions, and maybe the engine mapping settings would need to be tweaked for Bath, but the ADLs we have certainly wouldn't cope with Bath's hills whereas the Streetlites might. That said, given the reliability issues with the Euro 6 Streetlites, I am unconvinced First will buy them in any quantity in future until reliability is shown to be improved.

I'm also not sure why Bath would justify investment in new vehicles except possibly for the X39 anyway! Last published figures FSA (as it then was) was lossmaking.

Mainly because 4 hasn't received new vehicles in 12 years and has Wessex competing on half of it, 3 had new vehicles back in 2012 and I can't remember the last time 5 received anything new and it really needs something else on there.

On 4 I would suspect Streetlites to be used - needs to have plenty of pram room and needs to go up hills. I would expect Streetlites for 5 - much for the same reason. But I think 3, if it does get something, it'll be MMCs again. Reason I think 3 might get something is to cascade the E200s elsewhere - there are certain places in need of replacing solos and darts so i think they may head there. I also think that Sherrington is trying to get E200s on 179, so will have 44913-5 for that, which can only really be freed up if new or other vehicles come in for 3.
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33488 x7
42896 x8/x9
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Just experienced 33488 on X7 to Cribbs. Seats are the same as 48 vehicles - nice though. Just normal leather. They are R eallly what X7 needs - the speed and the comfort no way near match that of 32684/5/8. Brilliant vehicles from what i can tell.
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42957 82
47559/62 18

 

[vicbury]

Sorry but I really think that none of those services will receive anything new this year, cascaded or otherwise. The 3 doesn't need it, its current fleet (well the majority of it) is only four years old, and fine for the job. I don't think it would be seen as a priority. As for the 4, whilst I agree that the darts are getting on a bit, they are, in my opinion, perfectly suitable for the job and most perform well. The only thing which might tempt First to invest in new buses for the 4 is the recent introduction of the 14 from Wessex, but otherwise the darts are fine. And the 5 won't either. I believe it had a very slight upgrade recently when the 54/05/55 reg B7RLEs took over, though I understand the older 02 reg B7s still appear fairly often so that at least be addressed. There may well be a business case for newer stock on the 5 (as has been hinted at several times over the last couple of years) but I think the current arrangement will stay in place a while longer, with perhaps a few tweeks.

However, whilst I do not anticipate new stock on either service, I do think that unlike other depots, they will invest in the current fleet this year. That is to say I think most the buses will be painted, refurbished inside and route branding applied, so they will look a lot better.

The Darts, whilst reliable, need a mechanical overhaul as well as an internal refurb. Nearly all of them have the (very noisy) engine cooling fans running (in Winter!) and a few of them still suffer with vibration when idling.

But yes, agreed, they are the ideal vehicles for the 4.

 

[THarris123]

The Darts, whilst reliable, need a mechanical overhaul as well as an internal refurb. Nearly all of them have the (very noisy) engine cooling fans running (in Winter!) and a few of them still suffer with vibration when idling.

But yes, agreed, they are the ideal vehicles for the 4.

And so are Streetlites.
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37616 78

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Mainly because 4 hasn't received new vehicles in 12 years and has Wessex competing on half of it, 3 had new vehicles back in 2012 and I can't remember the last time 5 received anything new and it really needs something else on there.

On 4 I would suspect Streetlites to be used - needs to have plenty of pram room and needs to go up hills. I would expect Streetlites for 5 - much for the same reason. But I think 3, if it does get something, it'll be MMCs again. Reason I think 3 might get something is to cascade the E200s elsewhere - there are certain places in need of replacing solos and darts so i think they may head there. I also think that Sherrington is trying to get E200s on 179, so will have 44913-5 for that, which can only really be freed up if new or other vehicles come in for 3.

I think there's a couple of fundamental points that you should take more concern with.

The likelihood of Bath in any year getting 26 new single deckers (plus the 7 new deckers that you predict for the U5/U6) is pretty steep.

However, the big news will be Metrobus and I'd be amazed if First isn't the major (or sole) operator and that as part of that, they'll have a reasonable number of new vehicles as part of that opening (though I suspect some 2015/6 fleet will also appear on there as well). Also, there's the other routes that are also crying out for investment in Bristol; with that in mind, the likelihood of new vehicles there seems remote. That was the rationale behind my thinking.

Also, while the 179 is increasingly E200 operated, the connection with that being a precursor to a new fleet is far from a given. I followed a 429** Dart on the 3 (near the turn to Bathampton toll bridge) and that might be the solution for the time being, and whilst it seems to be the way, is there perhaps a shortage of serviceable Solos at the moment?

As Pte Baxter mentioned, there are still the last 5xB7Ls to be removed from their usual home on the 5, and I'd predict something of 2005 vintage, either Darts or B7RLEs.