First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[TheGrandWazoo]

I see that James Freeman has issued a statement to the Bradley Stoke Journal about Metrobus which includes news that when the M1 starts on Jan 6th, the X73 will keep running but with 2 journeys each way, instead of 3, and the 73 will keep its current route but be reduced to every 20 mins Mon to Sat daytimes.

http://www.bradleystokejournal.co.uk/2018/11/17/reprieve-x73-route-73-frequency-drop-20-mins/

Not really a surprise it’s being lowered. In fact, it could’ve been worse!

 

[Whiteway215]

Cheers Gents - greatly appreciate it! Think it was 39140 on tow the other week through Saltford.

Have conversions been done yet?

I contacted a friend from First Bath who knows what's going on on the engineering side. I was told what we already know from SPW24 most of these hybrids are parked up in Bristol awaiting conversion to Euro 6 diesel. I don't know the situation with 39133 which has remained in service but I understand no conversions have done yet.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I contacted a friend from First Bath who knows what's going on on the engineering side. I was told what we already know from SPW24 most of these hybrids are parked up in Bristol awaiting conversion to Euro 6 diesel. I don't know the situation with 39133 which has remained in service but I understand no conversions have done yet.

Very interesting - thanks for the update. More so given that most have been laid up since May when the 70/71 Streetdecks first began to be released.

I was thinking about these, as I remember driving down from Scotland and seeing them on delivery (without vinyls) and that was 6 years ago - time flies. Now, I don't know how long the P&R deal was for (7 years?) but wondering if these will actually go back on there? I mean, talking off the cuff, you could convert to diesel and send to Weston, and leave the Streetdecks on the P&R, perhaps until you broker a new deal with something more environmentally friendly?

 

[freetoview33]

Very interesting - thanks for the update. More so given that most have been laid up since May when the 70/71 Streetdecks first began to be released.

I was thinking about these, as I remember driving down from Scotland and seeing them on delivery (without vinyls) and that was 6 years ago - time flies. Now, I don't know how long the P&R deal was for (7 years?) but wondering if these will actually go back on there? I mean, talking off the cuff, you could convert to diesel and send to Weston, and leave the Streetdecks on the P&R, perhaps until you broker a new deal with something more environmentally friendly?

That is a fair point actually! Could electric buses be an option?

 

[Whiteway215]

Some months ago I heard a story (Rumour alert!!!) that the batteries on these hybrids were knackered and that replacements were ridiculously expensive or suitable replacements were not available. There is probably some truth in that story seeing it is intended to convert to Euro 6 diesel.

 

[D2007wsm]

Very interesting - thanks for the update. More so given that most have been laid up since May when the 70/71 Streetdecks first began to be released.

I was thinking about these, as I remember driving down from Scotland and seeing them on delivery (without vinyls) and that was 6 years ago - time flies. Now, I don't know how long the P&R deal was for (7 years?) but wondering if these will actually go back on there? I mean, talking off the cuff, you could convert to diesel and send to Weston, and leave the Streetdecks on the P&R, perhaps until you broker a new deal with something more environmentally friendly?

With the problems currently experienced with the Streetdecks on the 376 in Wells, when re-engined to diesel they would be perfect for use on the 376.

Weston atm seem to have enough E400s, it is less common now to see a B7 Gemini on the Excel services. This may be to E400s being freed up by the 2 B7RLEs being used on the X5 or that there are less B7 Geminis in Urban now with more and more being Badgered. All though all though last week on at least one day a Streetlite was being used on the X1-X4.

I also heard replacements are being sought for the 56 plate ex Plymouth E400s (33411 to 33419) as these are starting to suffer with reliability.

 

[Whiteway215]

39005 alive and well on Newbridge P&R today.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

With the problems currently experienced with the Streetdecks on the 376 in Wells, when re-engined to diesel they would be perfect for use on the 376.

Weston atm seem to have enough E400s, it is less common now to see a B7 Gemini on the Excel services. This may be to E400s being freed up by the 2 B7RLEs being used on the X5 or that there are less B7 Geminis in Urban now with more and more being Badgered. All though all though last week on at least one day a Streetlite was being used on the X1-X4.

I also heard replacements are being sought for the 56 plate ex Plymouth E400s (33411 to 33419) as these are starting to suffer with reliability.

I was thinking about them replacing the 56 plates at Weston.

Perhaps e400mmc from Bristol for the 376 was my thought, once the gas deckers arrive, and then Streetdecks to move to another OpCo.

32338 was on the 376 on Sat at Glastonbury (but could’ve heard it in Wells)!

 

[WelshBluebird]

I see that James Freeman has issued a statement to the Bradley Stoke Journal about Metrobus which includes news that when the M1 starts on Jan 6th, the X73 will keep running but with 2 journeys each way, instead of 3, and the 73 will keep its current route but be reduced to every 20 mins Mon to Sat daytimes.

http://www.bradleystokejournal.co.uk/2018/11/17/reprieve-x73-route-73-frequency-drop-20-mins/

Not too happy about the 73. As it is right now, it is the only service that connects Bristol Temple Meads or Bristol Parkway to anything near Gloucester Road. As far as I can see the M1 won't serve either station, or any of the local bus stops along Cheltenham Road / Gloucester Road / Filton Avenue, so can't see how it will be a competitor to the M1 at all. There are already issues with reliability with the 73 (many start / stop early in the city centre rather than continuing to Temple Meads, and many run with substantial delays) so making it even less frequency is going to be a massive pain for those of us who use it.

 

[freetoview33]

Not too happy about the 73. As it is right now, it is the only service that connects Bristol Temple Meads or Bristol Parkway to anything near Gloucester Road. As far as I can see the M1 won't serve either station, or any of the local bus stops along Cheltenham Road / Gloucester Road / Filton Avenue, so can't see how it will be a competitor to the M1 at all. There are already issues with reliability with the 73 (many start / stop early in the city centre rather than continuing to Temple Meads, and many run with substantial delays) so making it even less frequency is going to be a massive pain for those of us who use it.

It's because the original plan had the m1 serving parkway and temple meads. So now it harms people needing to use both.

 

[carlberry]

It's because the original plan had the m1 serving parkway and temple meads. So now it harms people needing to use both.

The original post was about people getting from Gloucester Road to the stations so the change in plans for the m1 wont have effecting it at all.
The problem is that the number of people swapping between buses and trains isn't as great as great as politicians and transport consultants say it is. The 73 is going to lose some of it's passengers to the m1 and clearly First think it's going to be significant (dropping 10 to 15 would have been the more expected drop otherwise). For Parkway there's no alternative (and it's quite a drop in the total number of buses to Parkway from anywhere) for Temple Meads there's the 72 as well and, given the current issues around Temple Meads, any service that goes there is going to be unreliable.

 

[Marcus Fryer]

The original post was about people getting from Gloucester Road to the stations so the change in plans for the m1 wont have effecting it at all.
The problem is that the number of people swapping between buses and trains isn't as great as great as politicians and transport consultants say it is. The 73 is going to lose some of it's passengers to the m1 and clearly First think it's going to be significant (dropping 10 to 15 would have been the more expected drop otherwise). For Parkway there's no alternative (and it's quite a drop in the total number of buses to Parkway from anywhere) for Temple Meads there's the 72 as well and, given the current issues around Temple Meads, any service that goes there is going to be unreliable.

The 73 is already every 15 minutes off-peak, and wider headways than that in the peak hours. Filton Avenue also has the 70/71, and there are plenty of buses on Gloucester Road, so the loss of one bus per hour on those sections probably won't be too disastrous.

 

[carlberry]

The 73 is already every 15 minutes off-peak, and wider headways than that in the peak hours. Filton Avenue also has the 70/71, and there are plenty of buses on Gloucester Road, so the loss of one bus per hour on those sections probably won't be too disastrous.

For some reason I thought it ran every 10 minutes! As you say a drop 15 to 20 isn't big and feels about right given the new m1.

 

[WelshBluebird]

My problems with the 73 changes can be summed up into the following really:

1. The 73 can be a little dodgy as it is at the moment anyway, partly due to the roadworks around Temple meads, other congestion in the city and presumably partly due to First's bus driver issues. That leads to at least some 73's being turned around in the city centre and so never serving Temple Meads. I've had this happen a couple of times just in the last week. Reducing the frequency of the service will just decrease the likelyhood of me being able to get a 73 at Temple Meads without having to wait an undue amount of time assuming a similar level of disruption / cancellations / early turn backs in the city centre.
2. First have already recently cut the journeys available from Temple Meads on several other services (the 70 only visits TM in the evenings now, and the 8 also just had some cuts to it aswel). To do so again, even though I understand it must be difficult with the current roadworks, just doesn't feel right to me.
3. There are no other alternatives from Parkway to the city centre. In that circumstance, I'd say axing a quarter of the buses available for a journey every hour is quite a big change.
4. At least in my experience, a large number of journeys on the 73 involve Temple Meads, Parkway, Stokes Croft, Cheltenham Road, Gloucester Road or Filton Avenue. I really don't see how the M1 actually affects the 73 that much based on that!
5. Whilst some specific sections of the route have alternatives that can help (e.g. the 70/71/72), again at least based on my experiences, a lot of journeys hop over the boundaries of those routes.

Being honest, if there hadn't been other frequency reductions / route curtailments so recently, and if the M1 was actually going to serve what it initially was supposed to serve, I wouldn't be too bothered. It is just everything added together. Travelling by bus can already be pretty painful in Bristol at times, the last thing passengers need are changes that make it more painful more of the time.

 

[Marcus Fryer]

Personally I feel that an increase in fast buses from Bradley Stoke to the city centre from 2 per hour to at least 5 is a positive step, and something that will get people out of their cars.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Personally I feel that an increase in fast buses from Bradley Stoke to the city centre from 2 per hour to at least 5 is a positive step, and something that will get people out of their cars.

Oh I absolutely agree with that, and I am not knocking it at all.

But at the same time I don't think the solution is to replace existing routes with new (sometimes faster) services that don't serve the same stops / areas (which is what seems to be happening with the Metrobus services, at least in part - see the complaints about the M2's stopping pattern from a few months ago). You need to have both to serve the both, very different, needs.

 

[freetoview33]

It has finally hit the Bristol Post, details of the Joint Spatial Plan from WECA. I am getting this direct from the plan not from Bristol Post! Half of this isn't new, just finally put together in one plan)

Basically the transport related plans are:

1. Relocate Brislington Park & Ride to Hicks Gate. (Via A37 link as listed below) (And the current site used for 750 homes)
2. Widening of the A4 to allow for a metrobus link to Bath.
3. The Callington Road link (Which is actually listed to be completed before any new housing in Whitchurch)
4. Build a link road from Hicks Gate to the A37 (Near Horseworld) to link up to Whitchurch Lane.
5. Close Scotland Lane.
6. New metrobus route from Bristol to Keynsham (Via Callington Road and A37 Link road)
7. A new Park & Ride on the A37
8. Avon Mill link road to the North of Keynsham
9. Banwell bypass to a new M5 J21A, with the new Banwell Garden Village (1900 Homes)
10. New village to the north of Churchill and Langford (2675 Homes)
11. Possibility of bringing back the 121 as a metrobus route!
12. Metrobus route to Nailsea, including improvements at Nailsea & Backwell station.
13. Building a new village at Buckover (3000 homes) with the T1 extended and absorbed into metrobus.
14. 500 Home in Thornbury (West)
15. A38N Park & Ride.
16. Charfield Station reopening with a bus link to Thornbury.
17. 1200 Homes at Charfield, and improvements to local buses.
18. New Coalpit Heath East village (1800 homes)
19. Metrobus extension to Yate.
20. New A432 Park & Ride.
21. Winterbourne & Frampton Cotterell bypass.
22. Over 2000 homes to the North of Yate.
23. Another 3 Park & Rides, on the M32, A38 South and A4018.
24. Expanding Long Ashton & Portway Park & Rides.

Nothing is mentioned of the new M4 Junction at Emersons Green.

 

[carlberry]

It has finally hit the Bristol Post, details of the Joint Spatial Plan from WECA. I am getting this direct from the plan not from Bristol Post! Half of this isn't new, just finally put together in one plan)

Basically the transport related plans are:

1. Relocate Brislington Park & Ride to Hicks Gate. (Via A37 link as listed below) (And the current site used for 750 homes)
2. Widening of the A4 to allow for a metrobus link to Bath.
3. The Callington Road link (Which is actually listed to be completed before any new housing in Whitchurch)
4. Build a link road from Hicks Gate to the A37 (Near Horseworld) to link up to Whitchurch Lane.
5. Close Scotland Lane.
6. New metrobus route from Bristol to Keynsham (Via Callington Road and A37 Link road)
7. A new Park & Ride on the A37
8. Avon Mill link road to the North of Keynsham
9. Banwell bypass to a new M5 J21A, with the new Banwell Garden Village (1900 Homes)
10. New village to the north of Churchill and Langford (2675 Homes)
11. Possibility of bringing back the 121 as a metrobus route!
12. Metrobus route to Nailsea, including improvements at Nailsea & Backwell station.
13. Building a new village at Buckover (3000 homes) with the T1 extended and absorbed into metrobus.
14. 500 Home in Thornbury (West)
15. A38N Park & Ride.
16. Charfield Station reopening with a bus link to Thornbury.
17. 1200 Homes at Charfield, and improvements to local buses.
18. New Coalpit Heath East village (1800 homes)
19. Metrobus extension to Yate.
20. New A432 Park & Ride.
21. Winterbourne & Frampton Cotterell bypass.
22. Over 2000 homes to the North of Yate.
23. Another 3 Park & Rides, on the M32, A38 South and A4018.
24. Expanding Long Ashton & Portway Park & Rides.

Nothing is mentioned of the new M4 Junction at Emersons Green.

So the grand plan is build lots of new roads with a couple of park and rides. That's going to make a huge difference!
End result more congestion than ever before, some of it relocated.
I wonder if the conversion to Metrobus actually means the original Metrobus standard (10 minute frequency) or just means it's the existing services with the ability to pay on the bus removed.
For Thornbury I would have thought a bus link to Parkway would have been more use than Charfield.

 

[BBC]

The 73 is already every 15 minutes off-peak, and wider headways than that in the peak hours. Filton Avenue also has the 70/71, and there are plenty of buses on Gloucester Road, so the loss of one bus per hour on those sections probably won't be too disastrous.

The loss of one bus will make the job harder for all the other services that go up Gloucester Road full anyway ! They should keep it every 15 mins and have only certain ones going further than parkway when most of the load is off.

 

[freetoview33]

Adding a bit more to my previous post, all these are planned to happen over the next 15 years or so.

1. Brislington Park & Ride would be relocated to a site nearer the Hicks Gate roundabout. The Park & Ride service would likely become a metrobus route running one of the following routes, the first would be to Whitchurch on the new link road, then down the A37 to Callington Road, then the Callington Link Road to Temple Meads, the second would be along Bath Road as current to Callington Road, then via the Callington Link Road to Temple Meads.
2. The current Brislington Park & Ride site would become a minimum of 750 homes, which could see a new bus service being needed as I doubt the 36 would be able to cope.
3. The X39 would be replaced by a new metrobus route to Bath, this would be achieved by road widening along the A4 to add in additional bus lanes, whether or not this would also run via the Callington Link Road is unknown, but if it does there would be a need for a new service to serve Bath Road and the new Brislington housing.
4. The Callington Link Road itself, which I did detail in a post not too long ago, which was planned to add bus lanes over St Philips Causeway and also somehow a link into Temple Meads, although I am guessing this could now be linked into the new university campus at Temple Meads.
5. The new link road running from the Hicks Gate roundabout between Stockwood and Stockwood Vale Golf club, and linking up to Whitchurch Lane and the A37 near Horseworld, this would likely see the proposed metrobus service from Long Ashton Park & Ride to Hengrove Park extended towards Brislington and/or Keynsham.
6. Scotland lane would be all but closed and turned into a river path, which it basically is anyway for most of the year, although there would be a new bridge for local traffic over the brook there towards Stockwood, giving it a proper link to Brislington. This could almost give rebirth to the 57, but running via the new link.
7. The 349 would be replaced with a metrobus route running via the A37 Link Road and Callington Link Road.
8. A new Park & Ride site on the A37 near Horseworld, I am guessing again this would run via the Callington Link Road. (Not quite sure how many buses they want to shove down there and I see the danger of it being impossible to travel from one end of Wells Road to the other)
9. A new Avon Mill Link Road in Keynsham, running from the Avon Valley Country Park entrance to Avon Mill Lane, this is mainly to provide better access to and from the Water Works and other business in the area, and to open up more land for development.
10. A new M5 Junction 21A linking to a new Banwell, Churchill and Langford bypass, with building upwards of 4,500 new homes around these three areas.
11. The reintroduction of the old 121 (Bristol - Bedminster - Bristol Airport - Banwell - Weston) as a metrobus route, this would tie into widening of the A38 between Bedminster and Bristol Airport. I am guessing this would take over the new A2 service, whose funding runs out in 10 years time.
12. Building a new metrobus route from Bristol to Nailsea, via the Long Ashton Bypass, which I guess would get more bus lanes. This is to tie in with new homes in Backwell and improvements to Nailsea & Backwell station, although unless they lower the road at the station, I can't see it working!
13. Building of 3000 homes at Buckover to the north east of Thornbury, this would see the T1 become a metrobus route and be extended to Buckover.
14. Another 500 new homes to the West of Thornbury, I am guessing this would see the T2 rerouted to serve West Thornbury.
15. A new Park & Ride on the A38 North to be located near Hortham, which route this would run via I really don't know.
16. Charfield Station reopening with a shuttle bus between there and Thornbury.
17. 1200 homes around Charfield with improvements to local buses.
18. A new village to the east of the A432 at Coalpit Heath, with 1800 homes and maybe a rerouting of the Y2.
19. Metrobus extension to Yate, I am guessing this would take over the Y1 and link into the M3.
20. A new Park & Ride on the A432 at Kendleshire.
21. A new Winterbourne and Frampton Cotterell bypass not sure where this would link up to on the southern end.
22. Over 2000 new homes to the North West of Yate, which would see changes to the Y3.
23. A new Park & Ride at Hambrook on the M32.
24. A new Park & Ride near Barrow Gurney on the A38 south.
25. A new Park & Ride near the new Haw Wood/Fishpool developments on the A4018.
26. An expanded Portway Park & Ride.
27. An expanded Long Ashton Park & Ride, which is already planned with the planned The Vale development, nothing is mention of the planned new service to The Vale development.

Now I do think Park & Rides are good, but even I think these plans are going over the top and am dubious if they will ever be used.

 

[WelshBluebird]

• The X39 would be replaced by a new metrobus route to Bath, this would be achieved by road widening along the A4 to add in additional bus lanes, whether or not this would also run via the Callington Link Road is unknown, but if it does there would be a need for a new service to serve Bath Road and the new Brislington housing.

I wonder if there has been any thoughts about what happens the other side of the route nearer Bath in that case? Considering the current X39 can get slowed down just as much around Salford and through Newbridge in Bath. Obviously all of this is more long term big picture aspirations, but it feels like the "non Bristol" issues of the plans don't have any detail or thought yet.

 

[carlberry]

I wonder if there has been any thoughts about what happens the other side of the route nearer Bath in that case? Considering the current X39 can get slowed down just as much around Salford and through Newbridge in Bath. Obviously all of this is more long term big picture aspirations, but it feels like the "non Bristol" issues of the plans don't have any detail or thought yet.

I thought that BANES had proposed curing all of Bath's congestion with a new tram. And I believe the Saltford bypass was going to be completed sometime in the mid 1970s.

 

[freetoview33]

I wonder if there has been any thoughts about what happens the other side of the route nearer Bath in that case? Considering the current X39 can get slowed down just as much around Salford and through Newbridge in Bath. Obviously all of this is more long term big picture aspirations, but it feels like the "non Bristol" issues of the plans don't have any detail or thought yet.

I think the Saltford Bypass will be done if and when the Avon Mill Road Link is completed

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I thought that BANES had proposed curing all of Bath's congestion with a new tram. And I believe the Saltford bypass was going to be completed sometime in the mid 1970s.

Ooooh me ribs. Given that the original "4. Build a link road from Hicks Gate to the A37 (Near Horseworld) to link up to Whitchurch Lane." was mooted when I was looking to buy a flat in 2006 at the then new block opposite the Yeoman, I won't be holding my breath on that one or a Saltford bypass.

Now, not having seen the information in detail, some of these things look highly specific and unlikely so is it some stream of consciousness or wishlist from WECA?

Perhaps they might be better served in having some deliverable ideas that might solve some of the issues NOW and not some aspirational plans of which only a few are realistic or can/will be realised? Not saying that they shouldn't have longer term plans but high concept plans won't address the real problems currently experienced and that are only going to get worse?

 

[ValleyLines142]

The 73 is already every 15 minutes off-peak, and wider headways than that in the peak hours. Filton Avenue also has the 70/71, and there are plenty of buses on Gloucester Road, so the loss of one bus per hour on those sections probably won't be too disastrous.

It's fine for the city centre, but the 73 is the only service that serves both of the two railway stations, so that's where the issue lies. The 70 has just been altered to only serve Temple Meads between 2000 and 0000. And the 72 is not much better as it serves Cotham and Redland first.

 

[carlberry]

Ooooh me ribs. Given that the original "4. Build a link road from Hicks Gate to the A37 (Near Horseworld) to link up to Whitchurch Lane." was mooted when I was looking to buy a flat in 2006 at the then new block opposite the Yeoman, I won't be holding my breath on that one or a Saltford bypass.

Now, not having seen the information in detail, some of these things look highly specific and unlikely so is it some stream of consciousness or wishlist from WECA?

Perhaps they might be better served in having some deliverable ideas that might solve some of the issues NOW and not some aspirational plans of which only a few are realistic or can/will be realised? Not saying that they shouldn't have longer term plans but high concept plans won't address the real problems currently experienced and that are only going to get worse?

I believe it's a plan that's been in development for many years with the basic requirement of building lots of new houses over the next x years. The rest is just to give the impression they've got a plan for where the traffic goes including public transport options to deal with any criticism. The fact that Bristol struggles with traffic already isn't their problem!

 

[henairs]

Do they have many Ostriches on their committee then. Tend to agree with Wazoo, let's deal with current issues first which should keep them busy for some time,
Cheers, Mike R

 

[Marcus Fryer]

It's fine for the city centre, but the 73 is the only service that serves both of the two railway stations, so that's where the issue lies. The 70 has just been altered to only serve Temple Meads between 2000 and 0000. And the 72 is not much better as it serves Cotham and Redland first.

Whenever I've travelled on the T1 it's been well patronised; although some of it may be new custom, I think a significant amount is abstraction from the 73/X73, so there should be sufficient capacity on the remaining 73s for short distance passengers on the Gloucester Road/Filton Avenue. And the 73 is only every 20 minutes in the peaks already.

 

[Whiteway215]

Another 'have a go at First day.' The Bath Chronicle reporting how two buses, a U2 and a 5, 'missed each other by inches' in a 'very scarey' incident when they passed on a narrow section of road in Twerton. All this filmed on a phone and presumably passed to the paper who then involved a spokesperson from First. Pathetic! I suppose if this had been say a brewery delivery lorry and a furniture removal van trying to pass each other it wouldn't have made a hot news story. There's some good comments though. Moan over!!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Another 'have a go at First day.' The Bath Chronicle reporting how two buses, a U2 and a 5, 'missed each other by inches' in a 'very scarey' incident when they passed on a narrow section of road in Twerton. All this filmed on a phone and presumably passed to the paper who then involved a spokesperson from First. Pathetic! I suppose if this had been say a brewery delivery lorry and a furniture removal van trying to pass each other it wouldn't have made a hot news story. There's some good comments though. Moan over!!

FFS!!! Mind you, agree the comments are very funny in the main.

So essentially, two buses don't collide as they are skilfully driven by professionals whilst a person films it with an illegally held cameraphone and then gets scared as she hadn't realised the angle a driver in the Eclipse had to take.